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You'll have to excuse me if I have a bit of a ramble. It's late, and for a variety of reasons I just want a bit of vent. More protest talk is ahead, so if you're sick of listening to me bang on about it then feel free to give it a miss.
There were a few protests happening in our neighbourhood tonight. All seem completely peaceful, sombre affairs. They're protesting because yet another person has died in custody, this time at a detention centre nearby. The man, Jamel Floyd, died from a heart attack brought on as a result of being pepper sprayed on his cell. He was 35 years old.
It's becoming evermore clear that the real story emerging from these protests is that of a culture of shameless and brazen police brutality that is going unchecked.
In time, when we look back on these events, when all the casualties and loss of life are added up, I wonder how much shame will be felt by the politicians and commentators who attempted to initially muddy the waters with talk of Antifa, with talk of middle class white boys, with sneering at heartbroken helpless people expressing their dismay on social media. I expect it'll be difficult to find anyone willing to admit that their response to witnessing this was to ignore real injustices and instead wheel out their favourite invented ones.
These have been overwhelmingly peaceful protests. Don't let anyone tell you differently. The government response to peaceful protest has been to deploy the military on the streets, to fire tear gas, to carry out beatings and to kill. There's something deeply wrong going on here and it isn't the protesting.
This brutality isn't new. It happens here every day. It has been happening every day. To those more used to dealing with British police forces - this is an entirely different beast. These are borderline combat troops, more concerned with assailing the community than protecting it.
Like I say this isn't new, but the difference is that it's now being filmed, and that it's now happening to people like the 75 year old white man from the article below rather than the young black men that society doesn't care about (but from whose culture they are more than happy to cherry pick, imitate and profit off).
If the sound of this gentleman's head hitting the concrete doesn't wake these people up to what's going on here, nothing will.
Sorry for the essay, it's been a bit of a rough week. We would usually be out there protesting, but as we are trying to do the right thing regarding COVID due to some family health issues we're both staying at home and consequently feeling about as much use as a chocolate tea pot right now. All we can do is chuck money at good causes, plus I get to ramble at you guys.
[Post edited 5 Jun 2020 5:32]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
I understand the BLM is a hugely important message, and it really is, but it seems to me from the videos that do the rounds, that the main issue is the police. the videos of the police wrong doings are 50/50 white cops and black cops, so it cant all be down to race, can it? a black copper elbowing a black man in the head 3 times isn't racist, its police brutality. but at the same time im not naïve to think there isn't a racial undertone with a majority of white cops, and their actions.
What I don't agree with however, is people making others feel as though they are racist for expressing anger at seeing war memorials defaced. surely both the BLM message is as important as respecting those gave their lives for future generations? everything these days seems to be a point scoring exercise.
FWIW im proud to live in a town such as Ipswich, a big black community, a big black following for the football team (historically and present day) I would like to think Ipswich is a safe place to live as someone of colour.
Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 07:30 - Jun 5 by textbackup
I understand the BLM is a hugely important message, and it really is, but it seems to me from the videos that do the rounds, that the main issue is the police. the videos of the police wrong doings are 50/50 white cops and black cops, so it cant all be down to race, can it? a black copper elbowing a black man in the head 3 times isn't racist, its police brutality. but at the same time im not naïve to think there isn't a racial undertone with a majority of white cops, and their actions.
What I don't agree with however, is people making others feel as though they are racist for expressing anger at seeing war memorials defaced. surely both the BLM message is as important as respecting those gave their lives for future generations? everything these days seems to be a point scoring exercise.
FWIW im proud to live in a town such as Ipswich, a big black community, a big black following for the football team (historically and present day) I would like to think Ipswich is a safe place to live as someone of colour.
Its a fair point to make- though it seems pretty clear that there is a real issue with assumptions being made over black guys with hoods.
With regard to George Floyd- it has ocurred to me repeatedly, that we actually have no real basis to assume that there was a racist element, rather than just OTT agressive policing. The officer in question might well treat anyone who is big and thought to be intoxicated in the same way. That doesnt mean that the protests are misplaced or that a wider issue doesnt exist.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett)
Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 07:30 - Jun 5 by textbackup
I understand the BLM is a hugely important message, and it really is, but it seems to me from the videos that do the rounds, that the main issue is the police. the videos of the police wrong doings are 50/50 white cops and black cops, so it cant all be down to race, can it? a black copper elbowing a black man in the head 3 times isn't racist, its police brutality. but at the same time im not naïve to think there isn't a racial undertone with a majority of white cops, and their actions.
What I don't agree with however, is people making others feel as though they are racist for expressing anger at seeing war memorials defaced. surely both the BLM message is as important as respecting those gave their lives for future generations? everything these days seems to be a point scoring exercise.
FWIW im proud to live in a town such as Ipswich, a big black community, a big black following for the football team (historically and present day) I would like to think Ipswich is a safe place to live as someone of colour.
I have always championed the fact that Ipswich is a very tolerant town. The vast majority of people seem to happily get on living side by side.
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Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 11:50 - Jun 5 with 1105 views
Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 06:19 - Jun 5 by blueconscience
It is not the genuine protesters that people have an issue with. It is the opportunist thugs. Glad to hear your area was fine though.
[Post edited 5 Jun 2020 6:20]
First post in and you're trying to muddy the waters by talking about an entirely different subject.
Cool.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 07:30 - Jun 5 by textbackup
I understand the BLM is a hugely important message, and it really is, but it seems to me from the videos that do the rounds, that the main issue is the police. the videos of the police wrong doings are 50/50 white cops and black cops, so it cant all be down to race, can it? a black copper elbowing a black man in the head 3 times isn't racist, its police brutality. but at the same time im not naïve to think there isn't a racial undertone with a majority of white cops, and their actions.
What I don't agree with however, is people making others feel as though they are racist for expressing anger at seeing war memorials defaced. surely both the BLM message is as important as respecting those gave their lives for future generations? everything these days seems to be a point scoring exercise.
FWIW im proud to live in a town such as Ipswich, a big black community, a big black following for the football team (historically and present day) I would like to think Ipswich is a safe place to live as someone of colour.
What war memorials are you talking about Texters? I might have missed that.
Is this something that happened in the UK, or are you talking about the Confederate statues over here?
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 07:30 - Jun 5 by textbackup
I understand the BLM is a hugely important message, and it really is, but it seems to me from the videos that do the rounds, that the main issue is the police. the videos of the police wrong doings are 50/50 white cops and black cops, so it cant all be down to race, can it? a black copper elbowing a black man in the head 3 times isn't racist, its police brutality. but at the same time im not naïve to think there isn't a racial undertone with a majority of white cops, and their actions.
What I don't agree with however, is people making others feel as though they are racist for expressing anger at seeing war memorials defaced. surely both the BLM message is as important as respecting those gave their lives for future generations? everything these days seems to be a point scoring exercise.
FWIW im proud to live in a town such as Ipswich, a big black community, a big black following for the football team (historically and present day) I would like to think Ipswich is a safe place to live as someone of colour.
That seems to be Spruce's point - there was little about race in the OP, just an emphasis on a indiscriminate police brutality. That seems to be the emerging issue in what originally started out as a BLM movement.
The war memorial issue over there is quite different to here as well; it's politicised and not just a issue of vandalism. Several States have been removing Confederate memorials due to their links with oppression, with others taking the opposite views (location and colour of the Governor has a lot to do with this).
I find America equally facinating and scary at the same time For a country that on the surface seems like us (same language, similar trends that we've copied) it's so very different in attitudes and outlooks to us. I've always thought we're more similar to NW European countries than America.
Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 12:18 - Jun 5 by Swansea_Blue
That seems to be Spruce's point - there was little about race in the OP, just an emphasis on a indiscriminate police brutality. That seems to be the emerging issue in what originally started out as a BLM movement.
The war memorial issue over there is quite different to here as well; it's politicised and not just a issue of vandalism. Several States have been removing Confederate memorials due to their links with oppression, with others taking the opposite views (location and colour of the Governor has a lot to do with this).
I find America equally facinating and scary at the same time For a country that on the surface seems like us (same language, similar trends that we've copied) it's so very different in attitudes and outlooks to us. I've always thought we're more similar to NW European countries than America.
Your last paragraph is spot on. I had been coming here regularly for years before I moved, but it wasn't until I lived here that I appreciated how having a shared language really masks the fact that the US and the UK are very different countries and have very different people.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Don't apologise for the ramble, all perfectly valid.
That clip of the guy cracking his head was hard to watch, and yet another example of unnecessary heavy handedness from the Police. I hope those responsible are held to account but I cant say I have any confidence.
1
Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 13:05 - Jun 5 with 991 views
Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 07:39 - Jun 5 by sparks
Its a fair point to make- though it seems pretty clear that there is a real issue with assumptions being made over black guys with hoods.
With regard to George Floyd- it has ocurred to me repeatedly, that we actually have no real basis to assume that there was a racist element, rather than just OTT agressive policing. The officer in question might well treat anyone who is big and thought to be intoxicated in the same way. That doesnt mean that the protests are misplaced or that a wider issue doesnt exist.
I agree to some extent. But feel there are multiple issues that need dealing with.
These are my thoughts when evaluate the different stakeholders. Note, I've done this very quickly and I'm aware I'm likely missing things.
Police perspective: Armed civilians, 118 police deaths in 2018, trained to use excessive force (compare to here).
Civilian perspective: Indiscriminate use of force against all people, socio-economic correlation between those that are incarcerated and killed.
Black civilians perspective: High rate of deaths compared to other races, high rates of incarceration compared to other races, higher rates of police brutality compared to other races.
Necessary things to resolve issues: Take arms away from civilians and police, retraining of police, an overhaul of selection criteria for police recruits, significant investment into poorer communities, more representative judicial system, reform of prison system.
Sure I've missed stuff and I've laid it out simply. Majority of these things would come with objections, even from people who say and support BLM.
Based on the things that need to change, I see very little chance of significant reform and change over the next 20 years. America might see subtle changes as they did after Rodney King. I expect the artistic outpouring will be more memorable than the reforms.
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Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 12:23 - Jun 5 by SpruceMoose
Your last paragraph is spot on. I had been coming here regularly for years before I moved, but it wasn't until I lived here that I appreciated how having a shared language really masks the fact that the US and the UK are very different countries and have very different people.
Yep. I only lived there for 7 months or so, but it felt like another world at times (in many ways a good, not all bad).
Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 07:39 - Jun 5 by sparks
Its a fair point to make- though it seems pretty clear that there is a real issue with assumptions being made over black guys with hoods.
With regard to George Floyd- it has ocurred to me repeatedly, that we actually have no real basis to assume that there was a racist element, rather than just OTT agressive policing. The officer in question might well treat anyone who is big and thought to be intoxicated in the same way. That doesnt mean that the protests are misplaced or that a wider issue doesnt exist.
But there is lots of evidence of systemic, institutionalised racism - which is the point of the protests.
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Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 13:39 - Jun 5 with 924 views
Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 13:17 - Jun 5 by Guthrum
As far as I'm aware, no war memorials have been defaced in the UK, despite internet rumours/misattributions.
There is a video of 5/7 young men and women cleaning the graffiti off, as another stands behind shouting "couldn't even leave the message on the precious war memorial more than a day" as if its ok to even deface it in the first place. this was in London. I don't mind if you haven't seen the video and once you do, i'm sure you'll find it as disgraceful as everything else being spoken about
Peaceful protests in my neighbourhood tonight on 13:36 - Jun 5 by gordon
But there is lots of evidence of systemic, institutionalised racism - which is the point of the protests.
Well- thats the point I made. I even was careful to state the blindingly obvious at the end so people didnt read one thing and conclude something else...
This is all being triggered (and I use that word carefully) by the Floyd thing. But the Flord thing MAY not even have been connected to what race aspect of all this. Thats all.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett)
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