| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? 12:46 - Jul 8 with 1696 views | BonneNIL |
If not certainly over the last 5 years? A better midfielder for me than Skuse, Bishop, Douglas, Coke, Dozzell, and co despite playing the bulk of his football for us in League One. Bishop in 2014-15 certainly would be a contender, but I feel Downes would have been just as good in the Championship for us had we stayed up. |  |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 21:13 - Jul 8 with 1544 views | Veggie |
Certainly the best academy product by a country mile. Woolfy 2nd. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 21:14]
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 00:10 - Jul 9 with 1445 views | MattinLondon |
If Bishop’s career wasn’t so set-back by so many injury issues - he would easily have ended up in the PL. And would, with better coaching and players, may well have ended up at a fairly big PL club like Spurs.
I think, a far more natural talent than Downes. [Post edited 9 Jul 2022 0:11]
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 02:15 - Jul 9 with 1392 views | BondiBlue |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 00:10 - Jul 9 by MattinLondon |
If Bishop’s career wasn’t so set-back by so many injury issues - he would easily have ended up in the PL. And would, with better coaching and players, may well have ended up at a fairly big PL club like Spurs.
I think, a far more natural talent than Downes. [Post edited 9 Jul 2022 0:11]
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More skilful but downes is far more effective. Downes has all the attributes to be a good midfielder in england. Basically energy and aggression. Kieron Dyer, our best academy graduate (in my lifetime anyway), was a very intelligent player with good ball control but his best attribute was incredible engine. An injury-free bishop would have peaked at the top end of the championship for me. We may not like to admit in but the english leagues are still about firstly being able to run hard for 90 minutes and secondly about physically imposing yourself on the opposition. Injuries or no injuries, that takes a certain mentality. I never saw bishop dominate a midfield. Scare the life out of them for 15 minutes, maybe. Downes did it every week in our first season in League 1 and made it look easy.
I should clarify, i really liked teddy bishop. Even wore his number 15 for my sunday league team for a season, but Downes will play for england. |  |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 08:01 - Jul 9 with 1291 views | Hullblue |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 02:15 - Jul 9 by BondiBlue |
More skilful but downes is far more effective. Downes has all the attributes to be a good midfielder in england. Basically energy and aggression. Kieron Dyer, our best academy graduate (in my lifetime anyway), was a very intelligent player with good ball control but his best attribute was incredible engine. An injury-free bishop would have peaked at the top end of the championship for me. We may not like to admit in but the english leagues are still about firstly being able to run hard for 90 minutes and secondly about physically imposing yourself on the opposition. Injuries or no injuries, that takes a certain mentality. I never saw bishop dominate a midfield. Scare the life out of them for 15 minutes, maybe. Downes did it every week in our first season in League 1 and made it look easy.
I should clarify, i really liked teddy bishop. Even wore his number 15 for my sunday league team for a season, but Downes will play for england. |
Bishop was one of the best players in the league at 18. He would have played in the prem at least!
Downes struggled at times in his first season (as you’d expect) whereas Bishop looked at home straight away.
Can see Downes getting some caps, but I think Bish would have too. |  |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 08:05 - Jul 9 with 1279 views | WeWereZombies |
He is certainly blonder than most but I don't think that is a fare way to judge a player... |  |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 08:16 - Jul 9 with 1260 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
I reckon Sam Morsy is the best midfielder we've had at the club in the last 10 years. But Downes has the potential to be even better. Yes Teddy was a hugely classy midfielder (as was Andre) but neither of them has the engine of a Morsy or a Downes. You never saw Downes of Morsy go missing for most of a game, they are just driving and working for the entire match. That's a huge part of English football. If Downes can control his aggression and use it wisely, as Sam Morsy does, and benefit from the coaching he will be getting now, then playing for England has to be his aim. |  |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 08:23 - Jul 9 with 1241 views | Swansea_Blue |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 08:16 - Jul 9 by LegendofthePhoenix |
I reckon Sam Morsy is the best midfielder we've had at the club in the last 10 years. But Downes has the potential to be even better. Yes Teddy was a hugely classy midfielder (as was Andre) but neither of them has the engine of a Morsy or a Downes. You never saw Downes of Morsy go missing for most of a game, they are just driving and working for the entire match. That's a huge part of English football. If Downes can control his aggression and use it wisely, as Sam Morsy does, and benefit from the coaching he will be getting now, then playing for England has to be his aim. |
I’m not sure Morsy is the best role model for using aggression wisely! So many unnecessary, stupid cards and he doesn’t have the excuse of inexperience like Downes. |  |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 08:38 - Jul 9 with 1223 views | Veggie |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 08:23 - Jul 9 by Swansea_Blue |
I’m not sure Morsy is the best role model for using aggression wisely! So many unnecessary, stupid cards and he doesn’t have the excuse of inexperience like Downes. |
I’d argue completely the opposite. We’ve been lacking a midfielder with Morsy’s nouse and ability to upset opposition players for years (Downes excluded). Yes he sometimes gets caught out or goes a step too far, but in my opinion it’s a necessity to have an enforcer in there. Prior to him we were getting walked over in midfield. [Post edited 9 Jul 2022 8:39]
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 08:41 - Jul 9 with 1213 views | Swansea_Blue |
Does Leadboots sneak into the last 10 yrs? He’d be the best in that role if he did. | |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 08:42 - Jul 9 with 1212 views | wkj |
Whatever the case may be, I think it is near impossible to judge his last season with us as an overall marker of his quality. I wouldn't be suprised if jadedness and frustration had crept in at that point. |  |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 08:57 - Jul 9 with 1192 views | BloomBlue |
Our best midfielder I would say, certainly better than Morsy who was our best midfielder last season. If Downs had stayed I'm sure we would have been promoted last season.
Bishop and Dozzell have been hit by injuries, bad injuries, and that will impact. Dozzell hopefully has got over his and will I'm sure be pushing for a Prem team soon. Bishop unfortunately seems to be suffering continous injuries and not sure he'll go beyond L1 but sadly he probably had the biggest potential of all of them. |  | | |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 10:15 - Jul 9 with 1103 views | chicoazul |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 21:13 - Jul 8 by Veggie |
Certainly the best academy product by a country mile. Woolfy 2nd. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 21:14]
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Ben Knight. |  |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 10:16 - Jul 9 with 1101 views | chicoazul |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 08:16 - Jul 9 by LegendofthePhoenix |
I reckon Sam Morsy is the best midfielder we've had at the club in the last 10 years. But Downes has the potential to be even better. Yes Teddy was a hugely classy midfielder (as was Andre) but neither of them has the engine of a Morsy or a Downes. You never saw Downes of Morsy go missing for most of a game, they are just driving and working for the entire match. That's a huge part of English football. If Downes can control his aggression and use it wisely, as Sam Morsy does, and benefit from the coaching he will be getting now, then playing for England has to be his aim. |
Why do you think the captain of a team that finished 11th in division 3 is better than Skuse for instance. On what possible basis. | |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 10:52 - Jul 9 with 1061 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 10:16 - Jul 9 by chicoazul |
Why do you think the captain of a team that finished 11th in division 3 is better than Skuse for instance. On what possible basis. |
Skuse was great at reading the game, and interceptions. Not too bad at passing either. But Sam also does that, and drives forward. He uses aggression wisely (the red card for Boro was perhaps a tad harsh) but he didn't get any reds for us, and clearly kept an ey on his tally of yellows to avoid getting a ban. We need players who can stand their ground, where the opposition know they are gonna get some physicality - that is a very important aspect of modern football, it helps in the psychological domination. Morsy is a goal threat, Skuse wasn't. Morsy makes fantastic decisions about the passes he makes, Skuse tended to opt for the safe pass every time. I rated Skuse pretty highly, but Morsy imho is a class above. | |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 10:54 - Jul 9 with 1057 views | Swansea_Blue |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 08:38 - Jul 9 by Veggie |
I’d argue completely the opposite. We’ve been lacking a midfielder with Morsy’s nouse and ability to upset opposition players for years (Downes excluded). Yes he sometimes gets caught out or goes a step too far, but in my opinion it’s a necessity to have an enforcer in there. Prior to him we were getting walked over in midfield. [Post edited 9 Jul 2022 8:39]
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Morsy, 13 yellows and 1 red in 40 games last season. Downes 11 and 1 red in 38 games for Flynn.
I just don't think it's right to say that Flynn would be improved if he controlled his agression like Morsy. Both add bite, both have a few issues reigning in the card count. They're much of a muchness in that department. | |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 12:14 - Jul 9 with 1008 views | chicoazul |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 10:52 - Jul 9 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Skuse was great at reading the game, and interceptions. Not too bad at passing either. But Sam also does that, and drives forward. He uses aggression wisely (the red card for Boro was perhaps a tad harsh) but he didn't get any reds for us, and clearly kept an ey on his tally of yellows to avoid getting a ban. We need players who can stand their ground, where the opposition know they are gonna get some physicality - that is a very important aspect of modern football, it helps in the psychological domination. Morsy is a goal threat, Skuse wasn't. Morsy makes fantastic decisions about the passes he makes, Skuse tended to opt for the safe pass every time. I rated Skuse pretty highly, but Morsy imho is a class above. |
And yet Morsy played for a team that finished 11th in division 3. Peak Skuse is three times the player peak Morsy is. | |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 13:05 - Jul 9 with 957 views | Veggie |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 10:54 - Jul 9 by Swansea_Blue |
Morsy, 13 yellows and 1 red in 40 games last season. Downes 11 and 1 red in 38 games for Flynn.
I just don't think it's right to say that Flynn would be improved if he controlled his agression like Morsy. Both add bite, both have a few issues reigning in the card count. They're much of a muchness in that department. |
Ah ok I misinterpreted your point slightly. Sorry for that. | | | |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 13:21 - Jul 9 with 932 views | BiGDonnie |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 12:14 - Jul 9 by chicoazul |
And yet Morsy played for a team that finished 11th in division 3. Peak Skuse is three times the player peak Morsy is. |
FFS |  |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 13:53 - Jul 9 with 892 views | FrimleyBlue |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 10:16 - Jul 9 by chicoazul |
Why do you think the captain of a team that finished 11th in division 3 is better than Skuse for instance. On what possible basis. |
Didn't skuse finish lower in the league below? |  |
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| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 14:01 - Jul 9 with 877 views | DJR |
| How does Flynn Downes fair as one of the best in the last 10 years? on 10:52 - Jul 9 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Skuse was great at reading the game, and interceptions. Not too bad at passing either. But Sam also does that, and drives forward. He uses aggression wisely (the red card for Boro was perhaps a tad harsh) but he didn't get any reds for us, and clearly kept an ey on his tally of yellows to avoid getting a ban. We need players who can stand their ground, where the opposition know they are gonna get some physicality - that is a very important aspect of modern football, it helps in the psychological domination. Morsy is a goal threat, Skuse wasn't. Morsy makes fantastic decisions about the passes he makes, Skuse tended to opt for the safe pass every time. I rated Skuse pretty highly, but Morsy imho is a class above. |
I think it is all relative, and they are also slightly different players. Morsy is clearly class at this level, but Skuse played 12 seasons at Championship level, whereas Morsy has spent only about a third of his career at Championship level. Indeed virtually all the players we have had since relegation to the Second Division in 1986, but before relegation to Division 1, were Championship level players or better, whereas I am not sure you could describe any of our current players as regular Championship players. And going back further, all of the players who came through the youth system and became regulars under Robson were Division 1 standard. In my opinion, the best players to come through the youth/academy system in my lifetime are Burley, Beattie, Wark, Gates, Osman, Butcher and Dyer, but they were all full internationals. I think that Downes is clearly the best we have produced in the last 10 years, but he needs to break into the West Ham team before we can judge just how far he can go. For what it is worth, I can't see him reaching the level of the players mentioned above. |  | | |
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