| At what point... 13:15 - Feb 17 with 1956 views | sjg |
should McKenna deviate away from his usual tactics?
His reluctance to change his tactics, in exchange for rotating his XI, to me come from a place of arrogance - my tactics are fine, my players aren't. Do 'performances' (4 wins in 15) justify the lack of flexibility, in the hope that eventually something 'clicks'?
To me, it is insanity to expect our fate to change without making any meaningful change to our tactics. At what point does a lack of change become unacceptable? When it is confirmed that we won't go up through the play offs? Or should we be looking to pull the trigger sooner rather than later and make the most of our favourable run of fixtures in the hope that we can salvage something from this run ?
I know which one I would choose... |  | | |  |
| At what point... on 13:19 - Feb 17 with 1942 views | positivity |
when we find one that works; we've tried numerous plan bs in-game, but none of them have given any better results so far.
what tactic change would you espouse? | |
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| At what point... on 13:21 - Feb 17 with 1933 views | sjg |
| At what point... on 13:19 - Feb 17 by positivity |
when we find one that works; we've tried numerous plan bs in-game, but none of them have given any better results so far.
what tactic change would you espouse? |
Probably the one that worked in the second half of last season and had us incredibly solid, with a lack of goalscorers up front the problem. Given our improvements in attack, not to mention the extra attacking option from the left side of Leif Davis, I'd say that would give us a far better chance of a late run than doing the same thing every week. | | | |
| At what point... on 13:25 - Feb 17 with 1912 views | itfcjoe |
He's not going to start lumping the ball to 2 strikers - so unless you can start spotting his obvious in game adjustments both in style and positioning you'll continue to moan about this |  |
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| At what point... on 13:27 - Feb 17 with 1888 views | sjg |
| At what point... on 13:25 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe |
He's not going to start lumping the ball to 2 strikers - so unless you can start spotting his obvious in game adjustments both in style and positioning you'll continue to moan about this |
Very good. Can you explain to me the differences in tactic from the game vs Cambridge compared to the game on Tuesday, vs Bristol Rovers please? If this is something that goes over my head I am intrigued to see what I am missing.
I am aware that we switched Clarke for Donacien in search of more defensive stability. Other than that, it seemed to be the same tactics with some personnel changes? Enlighten me. | | | |
| At what point... on 13:36 - Feb 17 with 1843 views | itfcjoe |
| At what point... on 13:27 - Feb 17 by sjg |
Very good. Can you explain to me the differences in tactic from the game vs Cambridge compared to the game on Tuesday, vs Bristol Rovers please? If this is something that goes over my head I am intrigued to see what I am missing.
I am aware that we switched Clarke for Donacien in search of more defensive stability. Other than that, it seemed to be the same tactics with some personnel changes? Enlighten me. |
Ok, well in the second half vs Cambridge we played Hirst and Ladapo as a front 2. Morsy dropped back to be the sole CM and Harness played as another attacker rather than replacing Evans in central midfield.
We also went much longer, mainly because we had no central midfield to play through
Vs Bristol because they were deep we played lots more crossfield balls to the wing backs than normal rather than play through the thirds - we were trying to get it to Davis quicker especially | |
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| At what point... on 13:40 - Feb 17 with 1824 views | sjg |
| At what point... on 13:36 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe |
Ok, well in the second half vs Cambridge we played Hirst and Ladapo as a front 2. Morsy dropped back to be the sole CM and Harness played as another attacker rather than replacing Evans in central midfield.
We also went much longer, mainly because we had no central midfield to play through
Vs Bristol because they were deep we played lots more crossfield balls to the wing backs than normal rather than play through the thirds - we were trying to get it to Davis quicker especially |
So we started the same way vs Cambridge as we did vs Bristol Rovers, is effectively what you are saying? With the exception that we tried to pass the ball to Davis much more.
Ground breaking changes, when you consider how well we started against Cambridge and would have been 2 down had it not been for a good save from Walton. | | | |
| At what point... on 13:42 - Feb 17 with 1819 views | clive_baker |
| At what point... on 13:25 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe |
He's not going to start lumping the ball to 2 strikers - so unless you can start spotting his obvious in game adjustments both in style and positioning you'll continue to moan about this |
Contrary to that I do think there's merit in being more direct in certain situations. Tuesday was a case in point, Bristol Rovers looked nervous defensively, in front of their own crowd and off the back of 5 defeats, I would've loved to see us deliver a real shock factor and deviate much more from the boiler plate for the last 20. Instead we remained pretty obvious and easy to play against, balls into Morsy, dropping it in over the head of their right back for Clarke / Broadhead and trying to get to the bye line. It was so predictable and ultimately fruitless. |  |
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| At what point... on 13:49 - Feb 17 with 1756 views | tractorboy1978 |
| At what point... on 13:40 - Feb 17 by sjg |
So we started the same way vs Cambridge as we did vs Bristol Rovers, is effectively what you are saying? With the exception that we tried to pass the ball to Davis much more.
Ground breaking changes, when you consider how well we started against Cambridge and would have been 2 down had it not been for a good save from Walton. |
You've just proven his point that McKenna's tactical changes are far too nuanced for you. | | | |
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| At what point... on 13:50 - Feb 17 with 1744 views | sjg |
| At what point... on 13:49 - Feb 17 by tractorboy1978 |
You've just proven his point that McKenna's tactical changes are far too nuanced for you. |
He stated many second half changes that we made at Cambridge out of desperation. Not many starting changes that were made out of choice. | | | |
| At what point... on 13:56 - Feb 17 with 1691 views | tractorboy1978 |
| At what point... on 13:50 - Feb 17 by sjg |
He stated many second half changes that we made at Cambridge out of desperation. Not many starting changes that were made out of choice. |
If you think setting up with Aluko/Harness in the 10s and Donacien in a back 3 is identical tactically to Chaplin/Broadhead with Clarke in a back 4, then there isn't much hope.
EDIT - I'd also add we've clearly been trying to utilise the long throw since Clarke has come in too. Not sure we saw that in the entire first half of the season. [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 13:58]
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| At what point... on 13:57 - Feb 17 with 1691 views | itfcjoe |
| At what point... on 13:42 - Feb 17 by clive_baker |
Contrary to that I do think there's merit in being more direct in certain situations. Tuesday was a case in point, Bristol Rovers looked nervous defensively, in front of their own crowd and off the back of 5 defeats, I would've loved to see us deliver a real shock factor and deviate much more from the boiler plate for the last 20. Instead we remained pretty obvious and easy to play against, balls into Morsy, dropping it in over the head of their right back for Clarke / Broadhead and trying to get to the bye line. It was so predictable and ultimately fruitless. |
For me it’s mainly upping tempo and risk taking that we need to do, when we become stodgy more pace needs to be injected into things because we do still enough to knock teams off their spot so to speak but then don’t take advantage of that and allow them to get reset again so the hard work is wasted | |
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| At what point... on 13:59 - Feb 17 with 1654 views | itfcjoe |
| At what point... on 13:56 - Feb 17 by tractorboy1978 |
If you think setting up with Aluko/Harness in the 10s and Donacien in a back 3 is identical tactically to Chaplin/Broadhead with Clarke in a back 4, then there isn't much hope.
EDIT - I'd also add we've clearly been trying to utilise the long throw since Clarke has come in too. Not sure we saw that in the entire first half of the season. [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 13:58]
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Back in the day fans would moan that Mick always tried to match up rather than play our own game, McKenna tried to ply what he thinks is our best style and way to win, tweaks in game but it’s not enough.
He’s never going to go 442 with long balls, and that’s the only Plan B sone recognise | |
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| At what point... on 14:05 - Feb 17 with 1605 views | sjg |
| At what point... on 13:56 - Feb 17 by tractorboy1978 |
If you think setting up with Aluko/Harness in the 10s and Donacien in a back 3 is identical tactically to Chaplin/Broadhead with Clarke in a back 4, then there isn't much hope.
EDIT - I'd also add we've clearly been trying to utilise the long throw since Clarke has come in too. Not sure we saw that in the entire first half of the season. [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 13:58]
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There was no Donacien in a back 3 vs Clarke in a back 4. I don't think you are in a position to be this patronising if you are making mistakes like this. | | | |
| At what point... on 14:12 - Feb 17 with 1537 views | clive_baker |
| At what point... on 13:57 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe |
For me it’s mainly upping tempo and risk taking that we need to do, when we become stodgy more pace needs to be injected into things because we do still enough to knock teams off their spot so to speak but then don’t take advantage of that and allow them to get reset again so the hard work is wasted |
I think we've struggled to up the tempo. We play a high energy style that demands a lot of our wide players especially, and Davis and Burns both tend to run out of steam meaning they're typically withdrawn. The issue we then have is that with Edwards or Jackson coming on, what they have in terms of energy in fresh legs they lack in terms of demonstrable numbers. Broadhead is a very good addition and certainly offered us something different on Tuesday, I couldn't help but feel Rovers were happy for us to have the ball in front of them though. Would've loved to see us get it from back to front much quicker, get Hirst playing closer to Ladapo and see how they handled the element of surprise. I thought Freddie was causing them some problems, they hated him receiving it in to his feet which we didn't do anywhere near enough of, and when we did he was so isolated. | |
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| At what point... on 14:31 - Feb 17 with 1384 views | Pilgrimblue |
| At what point... on 13:59 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe |
Back in the day fans would moan that Mick always tried to match up rather than play our own game, McKenna tried to ply what he thinks is our best style and way to win, tweaks in game but it’s not enough.
He’s never going to go 442 with long balls, and that’s the only Plan B sone recognise |
Agreed with that but why is Woofy strolling about. Earlier in season he was forging up field giving opposition nightmares. the only bit missing was that he didn't ever shoot once he got into penalty area!
But generally we lack pace esp to hit teams on the counter attack. For example why bring everyone back for corners instead of leaving at least one up at centre circle! |  | | |
| At what point... on 14:46 - Feb 17 with 1326 views | sjg |
| At what point... on 14:31 - Feb 17 by Pilgrimblue |
Agreed with that but why is Woofy strolling about. Earlier in season he was forging up field giving opposition nightmares. the only bit missing was that he didn't ever shoot once he got into penalty area!
But generally we lack pace esp to hit teams on the counter attack. For example why bring everyone back for corners instead of leaving at least one up at centre circle! |
We knocked the ball around brilliantly on Tuesday in our own box with about 3 or 4 opposition players in our box, the perfect opportunity to counter. By the time we got anywhere near their box, they had 11 men behind the ball. | | | |
| Do you actually watch the games? on 16:00 - Feb 17 with 1199 views | unstableblue |
'Should McKenna deviate away from his usual tactics?'
He actually makes relatively significant changes to the system, shape and tactics in game.. see midfield change against The Owls. How deep the full backs play. etc.
Its quite different to Cook, who was very dogmatic - which you seem to be trying to label McKenna as?
You seem to suggest getting rid of him? Its certainly not going well at present and fans should be very disappointed .
But I suggest you take a look at the Wikipedia page on ITFC managers and compare recent managers and his record. Also maybe consider performances against Oxford, Morecambe, Burnley, second half against Sheff Weds which are recent.
Lots of negativity towards anyone who shows any positivity on the board - 'happy clappers' bollox - its just trying to be pragmatic.
Do we question McKenna? hell yeah.
But what?! get rid of a really promising young manager at first sign of trouble?
And start all over again?
The challenge is getting confidence and a winning mentality into the club, and players. We have a soft underbelly.
But as Andy Warren states, it looks grim now, but this manager and group do still feel different. And the hope is they can turn a corner, and regain momentum, ahead of the play-offs.
Coming back from 2-0 and being battered by Sheff Weds for me showed resilience.
Lets hope Forest Green goes well, but I fear the fans have lost patience - not with McKenna - but with Town over the last decade! With our luck Big Dunc fires them up to play out of their skins, and the nerves flood onto the pitch from the Portman Road stands.
But any reversal of this slump is going to come from the players.. they need to fire up and fire up fast... Chaplin, Burns and Harness need to pull their feckin fingers out for example. McKenna's style does need energy especially when literally every team we play are parking the bus. [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 16:01]
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| Do you actually watch the games? on 16:14 - Feb 17 with 1150 views | BrockleyBlue78 |
| Do you actually watch the games? on 16:00 - Feb 17 by unstableblue |
'Should McKenna deviate away from his usual tactics?'
He actually makes relatively significant changes to the system, shape and tactics in game.. see midfield change against The Owls. How deep the full backs play. etc.
Its quite different to Cook, who was very dogmatic - which you seem to be trying to label McKenna as?
You seem to suggest getting rid of him? Its certainly not going well at present and fans should be very disappointed .
But I suggest you take a look at the Wikipedia page on ITFC managers and compare recent managers and his record. Also maybe consider performances against Oxford, Morecambe, Burnley, second half against Sheff Weds which are recent.
Lots of negativity towards anyone who shows any positivity on the board - 'happy clappers' bollox - its just trying to be pragmatic.
Do we question McKenna? hell yeah.
But what?! get rid of a really promising young manager at first sign of trouble?
And start all over again?
The challenge is getting confidence and a winning mentality into the club, and players. We have a soft underbelly.
But as Andy Warren states, it looks grim now, but this manager and group do still feel different. And the hope is they can turn a corner, and regain momentum, ahead of the play-offs.
Coming back from 2-0 and being battered by Sheff Weds for me showed resilience.
Lets hope Forest Green goes well, but I fear the fans have lost patience - not with McKenna - but with Town over the last decade! With our luck Big Dunc fires them up to play out of their skins, and the nerves flood onto the pitch from the Portman Road stands.
But any reversal of this slump is going to come from the players.. they need to fire up and fire up fast... Chaplin, Burns and Harness need to pull their feckin fingers out for example. McKenna's style does need energy especially when literally every team we play are parking the bus. [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 16:01]
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*Oxford at home (thankfully the fog prevented us from seeing a lot of the away performance). |  | | |
| At what point... on 16:16 - Feb 17 with 1137 views | itfcjoe |
| At what point... on 14:46 - Feb 17 by sjg |
We knocked the ball around brilliantly on Tuesday in our own box with about 3 or 4 opposition players in our box, the perfect opportunity to counter. By the time we got anywhere near their box, they had 11 men behind the ball. |
But that's not tactics - it's just bad play after an initial bit of good play that took 4 players out of the game | |
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| Do you actually watch the games? on 16:27 - Feb 17 with 1086 views | unstableblue |
| Do you actually watch the games? on 16:14 - Feb 17 by BrockleyBlue78 |
*Oxford at home (thankfully the fog prevented us from seeing a lot of the away performance). |
Yes of course I'm talking home game.. which was actually an in form Oxford who played well, but then got blown away.
The fog made the second half a lottery away - BUT, we didn't turn up first half, didn't adjust to how they'd changed their tactics.. and thats why we lost | |
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| At what point... on 16:57 - Feb 17 with 1024 views | witchdoctor |
| At what point... on 14:31 - Feb 17 by Pilgrimblue |
Agreed with that but why is Woofy strolling about. Earlier in season he was forging up field giving opposition nightmares. the only bit missing was that he didn't ever shoot once he got into penalty area!
But generally we lack pace esp to hit teams on the counter attack. For example why bring everyone back for corners instead of leaving at least one up at centre circle! |
indeed…always baffles me why we always have all eleven in the box …if we actually clear the ball it invariably comes right back at as…maybe have Chaplin in a forward position as it’s going to make the oppo keep at least a couple of defenders away from our nock [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 18:27]
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| At what point... on 17:48 - Feb 17 with 916 views | BlueBadger |
| At what point... on 13:25 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe |
He's not going to start lumping the ball to 2 strikers - so unless you can start spotting his obvious in game adjustments both in style and positioning you'll continue to moan about this |
And lets face it, if we DID start lumping it up to to strikers most of the 'I have Concerns' crowd would be crying about THAT. [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 17:54]
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