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The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 08:56 - Mar 5 by gtsb1966
Why are people so against removing people who come into the country by illegal means. I don't get it.
The right to seek asylum is a legal right we all share. It isn’t illegal to seek asylum, because seeking asylum is a legal process. If your claim for asylum is rejected, it also doesn’t mean you have done anything illegal — it just means you haven’t been able to meet the very strict criteria to prove your need for protection as a refugee. For example, you may have fled your country because you were genuinely persecuted by militia or at risk of gender based violence, but your asylum claim may be rejected because it was determined your home country should be able to provide adequate protection against these dangers.
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The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 09:02 - Mar 5 with 1871 views
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 08:56 - Mar 5 by gtsb1966
Why are people so against removing people who come into the country by illegal means. I don't get it.
Because among them are genuine asylum seekers.
The biggest issue is not people arriving, but how painfully slowly and inefficiently their cases are processed afterwards. Which has led to large numbers hanging around in an immigration limbo.
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 08:59 - Mar 5 by DJR
The right to seek asylum is a legal right we all share. It isn’t illegal to seek asylum, because seeking asylum is a legal process. If your claim for asylum is rejected, it also doesn’t mean you have done anything illegal — it just means you haven’t been able to meet the very strict criteria to prove your need for protection as a refugee. For example, you may have fled your country because you were genuinely persecuted by militia or at risk of gender based violence, but your asylum claim may be rejected because it was determined your home country should be able to provide adequate protection against these dangers.
I absolutely get it that the right to seek asylum is a legal right but I also understand that entering a country illegally is wrong. Why not apply for asylum from your country of origin. Surely if you enter a country illegally your chances of being granted asylum are diminished.
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The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 09:10 - Mar 5 with 1835 views
Rather disturbingly, the demonisation of those crossing the Channel now extends to Sue Ellen and Lee Anderson effectively supporting, and given free reign, to the far right-organised protests taking place outside place where such people are held.
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 09:07 - Mar 5 by gtsb1966
I absolutely get it that the right to seek asylum is a legal right but I also understand that entering a country illegally is wrong. Why not apply for asylum from your country of origin. Surely if you enter a country illegally your chances of being granted asylum are diminished.
How do you enter the UK legally if you have had to flee your home without documents, or if they have been destroyed?
As for claiming asylum while in their home country, it may not be possible, or safe. Besides which, would you not rather arrive at your destination and hope to be considered, rather than being turned down flat at the embassy in a third country (where refugees may also be subject to harassment, or may not speak the language)?
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 09:07 - Mar 5 by gtsb1966
I absolutely get it that the right to seek asylum is a legal right but I also understand that entering a country illegally is wrong. Why not apply for asylum from your country of origin. Surely if you enter a country illegally your chances of being granted asylum are diminished.
Apply for asylum from the country that may well be persecuting you? Hmm...
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 09:07 - Mar 5 by gtsb1966
I absolutely get it that the right to seek asylum is a legal right but I also understand that entering a country illegally is wrong. Why not apply for asylum from your country of origin. Surely if you enter a country illegally your chances of being granted asylum are diminished.
Just because the UK purports to make crossing the channel illegal doesn't make it illegal in international law if the purpose is to claim asylum.
The other thing is that, apart from crossing the Channel, it is practically impossible to claim asylum in the UK these days. But there may be family and other reasons for people seeking to do so.
The thing is I think we have to get things in perspective. Germany accepted over 1 million refugees about 7 or 8 years ago, and has accepted 1 million Ukrainian refugees, whereas the UK is always very low down in league tables about accepting refugees.
Part of Germany's motivation (I believe) is that it accepts that it needs more people due to an ageing population, so instead of throwing up the barriers, it has decided to act constructively in this matter. Perhaps the UK could do the same, given a shortage of workers, an ageing population and a birth rate which is not high enough to sustain the population.
[Post edited 5 Mar 2023 9:21]
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The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 09:21 - Mar 5 with 1799 views
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 09:19 - Mar 5 by DJR
Just because the UK purports to make crossing the channel illegal doesn't make it illegal in international law if the purpose is to claim asylum.
The other thing is that, apart from crossing the Channel, it is practically impossible to claim asylum in the UK these days. But there may be family and other reasons for people seeking to do so.
The thing is I think we have to get things in perspective. Germany accepted over 1 million refugees about 7 or 8 years ago, and has accepted 1 million Ukrainian refugees, whereas the UK is always very low down in league tables about accepting refugees.
Part of Germany's motivation (I believe) is that it accepts that it needs more people due to an ageing population, so instead of throwing up the barriers, it has decided to act constructively in this matter. Perhaps the UK could do the same, given a shortage of workers, an ageing population and a birth rate which is not high enough to sustain the population.
[Post edited 5 Mar 2023 9:21]
The UK government is possessed by the desire to please people who can't see beyond the end of their noses and don't want to spend a penny on anything which does not directly benefit themselves. They have forgotten (or are wilfully ignoring) how society and human civilisation works, in a desperate trawl to retain power.
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 08:56 - Mar 5 by gtsb1966
Why are people so against removing people who come into the country by illegal means. I don't get it.
So many bemoan and belittle how awful this country is. How it has gone to the dogs and bad our political system is and yet have no idea what 'living' not visiting or holidaying is like in other countries.
Just how oppressed and persecuted people really are.
It then leads to questions like this, where people cannot empathise or understand that people aren't crossing the channel for a jolly. How bad must their lives be to put their lives in the hands of traffickers where they are statistically unlikely to survive the journey let alone be considered for asylum but that is better, yes better, than staying where they are.
It's no bad thing to put ourselves in other people's shoes sometimes.
Finally, what sort of progressive forward thinking western society are we where we can't consider the misfortune of others and help? Says an awful lot of our society.
[Post edited 5 Mar 2023 9:28]
Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 08:56 - Mar 5 by gtsb1966
Why are people so against removing people who come into the country by illegal means. I don't get it.
They’re not. We’re against a government criminalising asylum seekers and making it more dangerous for them to travel here whilst simultaneously facilitating people trafficking, in their preference for some performative theatre to appeal to racists and xenophobes.
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 09:07 - Mar 5 by gtsb1966
I absolutely get it that the right to seek asylum is a legal right but I also understand that entering a country illegally is wrong. Why not apply for asylum from your country of origin. Surely if you enter a country illegally your chances of being granted asylum are diminished.
You have asked a question, so I will explain.
Imagine you are fleeing a war zone. You take your car if you have one, or catch a lift or a train or a ferry or whatever to get out. Maybe you didn't have time to get back to your house and find all your documentation, maybe your house was hit by a bomb and finding them would be impossible.
Maybe you are a persecuted minority and your passport and paperwork has been taken from you by the local Police.
Maybe you never had need to travel abroad before, or were too poor to do so, and so you don't have a passport
Anyway, you get out of your country in the clothes you are standing up in.
The camps in the next country near the border are completely overwhelmed. There isn't enough water for everyone.
Maybe you don't speak German or French, but do speak some English. And so you decide to seek Asylum in the UK, and try to find a means of getting there.
If you don't have a passport and a credit/debit card, you can't book a flight. Impossible to do. Or even a ferry, or Eurostar, should you make it to Calais.
So the acceptable means of making the crossing, ferry, Eurostar, plane, are not available to you.
How about asking somebody if they will give you a lift over, so that you can claim asylum? Even of somebody would be likely to agree, they would now be breaking the law.
So, dinghy it is.
Which used to be unauthorised, but not illegal. The Tories have specifically passed a law to make it illegal.
And are now going to try again to pass a Law which grants immediate deportation powers to Border Force for anyone who comes into the country illegally.
I get that you are very concerned about people not acting illegally. And you want to speak up against it.
The new Law that Sunak is proposing breaks international law, and would put the UK in violation of treaties which we have signed. So it is illegal.
As you are very concerned about speaking out against things that are illegal, I look forward to you condemning Sunak's illegal new Law.
Note: There has always been a way of dealing with Calais, called the Dublin Accords, which provide a means for countries to deport claimants to previous safe countries, through cooperation and sharing of some of the load. The Brexity Tories have refused to go that route, which many EU countries have signed up to, and instead have pretended that this was prevented when we were members of the EU, and so made Brexit necessary. Complete lies. Some members of the EU are signed up to the Dublin Accords.
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 09:21 - Mar 5 by gtsb1966
Do people not agree though that the Albanian situation has got out of control. Coming here in small boats from a safe country cannot be justified.
I think the answer to that is to improve and speed up the process, so that genuine asylum seekers succeed, and those that do not are dealt with accordingly.
The following, if you read it closely, suggests that the Tories haven't handled such issues particularly well in recent years, presumably in large part due to cuts in the Home Office. But it is asylum seekers who are getting it in the neck, not the Tories.
Four things in particular emerge from this report.
The highest number of asylum applications was in 2002.
The percentage of asylum applicants refused at initial decision reached its highest point at 88% in 2004. Since then, the refusal rate has been falling overall and was at 24% in 2022, its lowest point since 1990.
In the year to June 2022, there were around 75,000 asylum applications out of an estimated 1.1 million people who migrated to the UK.
In 2021, there were around 9 asylum applications for every 10,000 people living in the UK. Across the EU27 there were 14 asylum applications for every 10,000 people. The UK was therefore below the average among EU countries for asylum applications per head of population, ranking 16th among EU27 countries plus the UK on this measure.
[Post edited 5 Mar 2023 10:36]
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The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 11:05 - Mar 5 with 1489 views
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 09:10 - Mar 5 by DJR
Rather disturbingly, the demonisation of those crossing the Channel now extends to Sue Ellen and Lee Anderson effectively supporting, and given free reign, to the far right-organised protests taking place outside place where such people are held.
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 08:56 - Mar 5 by gtsb1966
Why are people so against removing people who come into the country by illegal means. I don't get it.
As I've said before, lets hope you're never in the situation where you're relying on someone else's generosity and care and you run into their version of you.
SB
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The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 11:18 - Mar 5 with 1470 views
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 09:21 - Mar 5 by gtsb1966
Do people not agree though that the Albanian situation has got out of control. Coming here in small boats from a safe country cannot be justified.
Because of your privileged position that you fail to acknowledge you've never known and will probably never know true desperation to improve your life.
One of the reasons you enjoy the better life that they are trying to achieve is because of the location various sperm and eggs were in at various times over the last 100 years. Nothing more than that.
You're essentially saying you won the lottery and screw them.
Surely you can see there can be a better way of handling these things, a more compassionate and reasonable way that the Tories continually push?
SB
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The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 11:28 - Mar 5 with 1455 views
Interesting to note that the Mail, which is at the heart of the anti-Channel crossing campaign, is only rehashing campaigns it has run before. For such reasons and many more, I never trust anything written in right wing newspapers like it.
[Post edited 5 Mar 2023 12:30]
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The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 11:35 - Mar 5 with 1437 views
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 09:29 - Mar 5 by homer_123
Have a little read up on, say, civil rights and persecution in Albania.
Do you have any links on this. I actually had a look because it’s a place I’m interested in visiting ( trying to cover as many countries in Europe as I can).
The EU’s report into accession progress seemed to be generally positive on social freedoms and rule of law/corruption etc.
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The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 12:59 - Mar 5 with 1320 views
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 11:35 - Mar 5 by SuperKieranMcKenna
Do you have any links on this. I actually had a look because it’s a place I’m interested in visiting ( trying to cover as many countries in Europe as I can).
The EU’s report into accession progress seemed to be generally positive on social freedoms and rule of law/corruption etc.
There are a lot of terrible things going on in Albania, and there appear to be serious issues with child and people trafficking, which is another issue (and doesn't necessarily mean people, especially children, should be deported because their asylum claim fails), but the following indicates that in 2021, based on roughly the same number of asylum claims determined, the UK accepted 55% of asylum claims from Albania whereas Germany accepted 0%.
So this appears to be further evidence that it is the system under the Tories which is in a mess.
Interestingly, I came across this from the website of a charity concerned with the welfare of Albanian children and young people, which suggests more Albanian claims may have merit than one might think.
"The legal aid system acts as a disincentive for immigration lawyers to take on cases which are certain to be time- and resource-intensive. The result is that many Albanian children and young people are represented poorly and a vicious circle emerges: immigration judges repeatedly presented with poorly prepared Albanian claims find it hard to avoid assuming these claims have little merit."
And here is an alternative view to that you hear in the right wing press.
The Tories are re-releasing their greatest hits. on 12:59 - Mar 5 by DJR
There are a lot of terrible things going on in Albania, and there appear to be serious issues with child and people trafficking, which is another issue (and doesn't necessarily mean people, especially children, should be deported because their asylum claim fails), but the following indicates that in 2021, based on roughly the same number of asylum claims determined, the UK accepted 55% of asylum claims from Albania whereas Germany accepted 0%.
So this appears to be further evidence that it is the system under the Tories which is in a mess.
Interestingly, I came across this from the website of a charity concerned with the welfare of Albanian children and young people, which suggests more Albanian claims may have merit than one might think.
"The legal aid system acts as a disincentive for immigration lawyers to take on cases which are certain to be time- and resource-intensive. The result is that many Albanian children and young people are represented poorly and a vicious circle emerges: immigration judges repeatedly presented with poorly prepared Albanian claims find it hard to avoid assuming these claims have little merit."
And here is an alternative view to that you hear in the right wing press.
Sounds like an EU whitewash then, and I say that as someone who voted remain. Whilst they noted human trafficking is suggests good progress has been made. Therefore assume they will look to wave them through at some point as they did turning a blind eye to Greece’s mafia-esque accounting!
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