| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league 08:25 - Jun 22 with 5229 views | itfcjoe |
Reece Oxford, played a couple of games last year (15-16 season) for West Ham, and even though he was England U17 captain was pulled out of the U17 World Cup squad by West Ham.
During the whole tournament, he didn't play one minute of football for West Ham in any competition. And he hasn't played a minute in 16-17
Recently David Gold, the West Ham owner, came out with a tweet along the lines of how it is very unlikely that teenagers will play for West Ham whilst they have 'seasoned internationals' in their team. Which on the face of it, is probably a fair point but does beg the question of the point of them having an academy at all.
Oxford has now gone to the German league and signed a years loan contract with Borussia Mönchengladbach who are arguably a better side than West Ham.
How does that work? How do English kids have a hope in a PL academy if they aren't going to get any opportunities?
The Premier League TV deals and EPPP has created a situation where we are now as a country creating better and better players, and they are getting fewer and fewer opportunities |  |
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 08:30 - Jun 22 with 5199 views | Fixed_It |
And then people wonder why the national team are a bit of a disappointment. |  |
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 08:31 - Jun 22 with 5196 views | JakeITFC |
#thread
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 08:32 - Jun 22 with 5190 views | Reuser_is_God |
Wilkins was on Talksport this morning slating Chelsea for signing Bakayoko when they have Chalobah waiting in the wings who has played well at every opportunity he's had & has 95 England caps at various levels! |  |
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 08:46 - Jun 22 with 5156 views | Basuco |
Stuart Pearce was on Talksport talking about this this type of thing a few weeks back, Marcus Rashford has missed 5 youth tournaments but not played many minutes of first team football, More than Oxford admittedly but he felt that Rashford should be part of the very promising group of youngsters coming through at the moment. He should be starting in his age group rather than being a bit part first team player and should be getting regular 90 minutes of football. As you say there must be something seriously wrong with EPPP if West Ham are sending young players out to Germany to develop. It appears to me that EPPP is not fit for purpose in the development of youth, it does allow Prem teams to keep a close eye on youth players in the EFL with little effort, which is probably why it was implemented in the first place. |  | | |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 09:03 - Jun 22 with 5102 views | Guthrum |
That is to the advantage of teams like ourselves, who can at least give these youths the opportunity to get game time and showcase their talents, while giving us access to young players of a quality beyond what we could normally afford. |  |
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 09:21 - Jun 22 with 5062 views | maccyd9 |
Risk v Reward.
Oxford made massive strides but regressed a little last season. Think he started twice and got pulled at half time and couldn't get many minutes at Reading on loan.
If you're Bilic for example and every game could be your last, you can't afford to put the time in to youngsters.
West Ham have got some brilliant youngsters coming through but they don't have the time to allow them to develop.
It's modern day football at it's worst. |  | | |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 09:24 - Jun 22 with 5049 views | WD19 |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 09:03 - Jun 22 by Guthrum |
That is to the advantage of teams like ourselves, who can at least give these youths the opportunity to get game time and showcase their talents, while giving us access to young players of a quality beyond what we could normally afford. |
That is certainly true, but our short term gain doesn't make the whole thing 'right'.
I can't help but feel that it all rather conveniently points in the direction of allowing big teams to enter 'B' teams in the pyramid to 'give youth a chance'. Depressingly predictable. |  | | |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 09:43 - Jun 22 with 5009 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 08:46 - Jun 22 by Basuco |
Stuart Pearce was on Talksport talking about this this type of thing a few weeks back, Marcus Rashford has missed 5 youth tournaments but not played many minutes of first team football, More than Oxford admittedly but he felt that Rashford should be part of the very promising group of youngsters coming through at the moment. He should be starting in his age group rather than being a bit part first team player and should be getting regular 90 minutes of football. As you say there must be something seriously wrong with EPPP if West Ham are sending young players out to Germany to develop. It appears to me that EPPP is not fit for purpose in the development of youth, it does allow Prem teams to keep a close eye on youth players in the EFL with little effort, which is probably why it was implemented in the first place. |
I cannot understand for the life of me, why Rashford wasn't involved with the under 21's squad this summer. In the 2 recent games he only played 65 minutes against Scotland, and didn't even get on the field against France. |  |
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 09:47 - Jun 22 with 4995 views | Guthrum |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 09:24 - Jun 22 by WD19 |
That is certainly true, but our short term gain doesn't make the whole thing 'right'.
I can't help but feel that it all rather conveniently points in the direction of allowing big teams to enter 'B' teams in the pyramid to 'give youth a chance'. Depressingly predictable. |
No, not at all. Especially given the England management's refusal to consider even young players not at a top-tier club.
Personally, I think having Prem B teams in the League system is a very bad idea. Pushes out genuine, old clubs who have earnt their position through decades of struggle. Leads to even further concentration - of money, players and fan support - in just a few big "franchises".
You could end up with the ridiculous situation where, say, Chelsea B and even C teams may get promoted to the Prem alongside their parent club. Or get drawn against them in a cup competition. Potentially resulting in a massive conflict of interest. | |
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 10:12 - Jun 22 with 4944 views | Fixed_It |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 09:21 - Jun 22 by maccyd9 |
Risk v Reward.
Oxford made massive strides but regressed a little last season. Think he started twice and got pulled at half time and couldn't get many minutes at Reading on loan.
If you're Bilic for example and every game could be your last, you can't afford to put the time in to youngsters.
West Ham have got some brilliant youngsters coming through but they don't have the time to allow them to develop.
It's modern day football at it's worst. |
I have made this point many times. The money and pressure involved means that the managers can't afford to take a chance on developing youngsters. There is too much money in the game at the top. Football will implode. | |
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 11:01 - Jun 22 with 4848 views | maccyd9 |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 10:12 - Jun 22 by Fixed_It |
I have made this point many times. The money and pressure involved means that the managers can't afford to take a chance on developing youngsters. There is too much money in the game at the top. Football will implode. |
Absolutely.
Whilst as a traditionalist, I'm not a massive of the Director of Football and Coach set up, it's the biggest argument for it.
Managers come and go in record time which offers no incentive for a manager to invest time and effort in to Youth. If I as a manager think I have only 18 months (unless majorly successful), I don't want to waste a second of that on a player that will benefit the next man.
A DOF with a long term plan relating to structure, recruitment and development of youth has to be way the way forward unless you can commit long term to a manager. | | | |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 11:10 - Jun 22 with 4817 views | itfcjoe |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 08:31 - Jun 22 by JakeITFC |
#thread
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Not sure I agree with all that, as a lot of times these loan fees are massive but do get where he is coming from.
If that does happen more frequently, ultimately it is good for the national side - but with the TV deal getting bigger and bigger, the chances of these kids seeing the field at any PL club is slim to none. Tammy Abraham just signed a new deal on £50k a week and goes out on loan to Swansea - probably needs to get 18 goals to even be considered for a chance at Chelsea - the bar is just too high | |
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| on 11:21 - Jun 22 with 4792 views | _ |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 11:10 - Jun 22 by itfcjoe |
Not sure I agree with all that, as a lot of times these loan fees are massive but do get where he is coming from.
If that does happen more frequently, ultimately it is good for the national side - but with the TV deal getting bigger and bigger, the chances of these kids seeing the field at any PL club is slim to none. Tammy Abraham just signed a new deal on £50k a week and goes out on loan to Swansea - probably needs to get 18 goals to even be considered for a chance at Chelsea - the bar is just too high |
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 11:24 - Jun 22 with 4776 views | maccyd9 |
The stockpiling of youngsters is a sensible move really by the Chelsea's and Man City's of this world.
Get them in for a bargain price, give them 2/3 years of development at another club who have to put the graft in and ultimately they'll be one or two from every 20 that make a 1st team impact but probably all, will sell for a significant sum.
Didn't Bournemouth by £20m for Ake? Chalobah, Loftus-Cheek will no doubt command £10m + fees in the next year or so.
I hate it, but I see the sense. | | | |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 11:26 - Jun 22 with 4771 views | itfcjoe |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 09:21 - Jun 22 by maccyd9 |
Risk v Reward.
Oxford made massive strides but regressed a little last season. Think he started twice and got pulled at half time and couldn't get many minutes at Reading on loan.
If you're Bilic for example and every game could be your last, you can't afford to put the time in to youngsters.
West Ham have got some brilliant youngsters coming through but they don't have the time to allow them to develop.
It's modern day football at it's worst. |
Only games he played for WH last year were 2 in early rounds of UEFA.
I don't see where it all ends, I personally have almost come full circle with regards to the need for B teams and a total resturcture of the football league and PL. Would be happy with something along the lines of:
PL
PL2
Champ North - Champ South
L1W - L1N - L1S - L1E
And split further as it goes down the pyramid - B teams can get into the 3rd or 4th tier as a ceiling and football is split more regionally until you get to the top clubs.
Seems ridiculous when you've got a team like orient who are going to the wall over £150k or something, and they have to travel up to York, Barrow etc to play a game in the Non-League where they will be a few hundred people watching it and the gate receipts don't cover the players wages.
Structure feels so unsustainable at the moment anyway, if we were to restructure I wouldn't be against B teams in principle | |
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 11:33 - Jun 22 with 4744 views | GavTWTD |
I thought it was a requirement of Category A that you had to have X number of academy products playing for the first team? |  |
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 11:43 - Jun 22 with 4700 views | PhilTWTD |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 11:33 - Jun 22 by GavTWTD |
I thought it was a requirement of Category A that you had to have X number of academy products playing for the first team? |
They amended that to <i>a</i> first team so loans counted for the likes of Chelsea etc. |  | | |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 11:44 - Jun 22 with 4695 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 11:33 - Jun 22 by GavTWTD |
I thought it was a requirement of Category A that you had to have X number of academy products playing for the first team? |
Isn't it for a first team? Not necessarily that of the parent club. | |
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 13:08 - Jun 22 with 4626 views | HarryWright |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 09:21 - Jun 22 by maccyd9 |
Risk v Reward.
Oxford made massive strides but regressed a little last season. Think he started twice and got pulled at half time and couldn't get many minutes at Reading on loan.
If you're Bilic for example and every game could be your last, you can't afford to put the time in to youngsters.
West Ham have got some brilliant youngsters coming through but they don't have the time to allow them to develop.
It's modern day football at it's worst. |
Focus should be on the lower league to develop players then. No risk if the player has already proven himself in the lower leagues, but for some reason the premier league still get's priority over the youth players. |  | | |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 13:14 - Jun 22 with 4606 views | itfcjoe |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 13:08 - Jun 22 by HarryWright |
Focus should be on the lower league to develop players then. No risk if the player has already proven himself in the lower leagues, but for some reason the premier league still get's priority over the youth players. |
Problem is as more and more money trickles down into the Championship it is going/has gone the same way as the PL where players aren't trusted even at this level. | |
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| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 13:18 - Jun 22 with 4595 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Youth getting opportunities in the Premier league on 09:21 - Jun 22 by maccyd9 |
Risk v Reward.
Oxford made massive strides but regressed a little last season. Think he started twice and got pulled at half time and couldn't get many minutes at Reading on loan.
If you're Bilic for example and every game could be your last, you can't afford to put the time in to youngsters.
West Ham have got some brilliant youngsters coming through but they don't have the time to allow them to develop.
It's modern day football at it's worst. |
These clubs have no qualms about paying £8m, £10m, £15m on foreign imports that may or may not make the grade though. | | | |
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