Forum | I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... by unstableblue

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I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... 11:02 - Oct 1 with 5217 views

.. a lot of vitriol and passion against Hurst all ready on this board. As I said the dial seems to have gone up to 11 very quickly in terms of people feeling he's not up to the task.

Understandable perhaps given league position and lack of a win. I think the Hull performance was pivotal, being the first time we've looked completely out of our depth.

I still have faith in our diminutive leader, you don't suddenly become a poor manager.

My concern with Hurst has always been lack of goals - Shrews were not free scoring - and whether he could entertain (no point getting rid of Mick on the grounds the football was unwatchable, and then get another dire manager in) - I personally think the football in the main has been much more enjoyable on the eye this season, albeit not consistently.

I say give Hurst October; QPR and Millwall 'should' be wins, as by then the team will have been together for a significant period, Dozzell will be fit. A couple of draws from West Brom, Swansea, Leeds.... and we'll be in a good place.

So in summary, its bad, but its not as awful as some are making out, 7 points from October's 15, and we'd surely all be happy?

I'll be there on Tuesday, maybe solo, so no mates views I'm afraid! Keep the unbeaten home run alive!

Poll:

How many points will Town get from 5 (Wat, Boro, Hull, Cov, Hudd)?

-3

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:04 - Oct 1 with 2697 views

LankHenners

Revised your 8 game judging period then?

	Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
Poll:	What is Celina's problem?

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:06 - Oct 1 with 2694 views

Steve_M

It's not the vitriol and passion of anti-Hurst arguments that should be the concern, it's the rational assessments of board members who aren't prone to get over-excitable.

Poll:	When are the squad numbers out?
Blog:	Cycle of Hurt

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:06 - Oct 1 with 2685 views

TractorWood

I don't think Hurst is a problem per se. The squad is dross and we'd be bottom 6 with anyone (we'd be willing to pay) in charge.

	I know that was then, but it could be again..
Poll:	At present who do you think you'll vote for?

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:10 - Oct 1 with 2666 views

C_HealyIsAPleasure

I’d be delighted if we manage to get 7 points from October’s 5 games, considering we’ve only managed one less than that from twice as many games so far

	Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
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You bit..... on 11:15 - Oct 1 with 2646 views

unstableblue

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:04 - Oct 1 by LankHenners
Revised your 8 game judging period then?

..!!

Isn't it funny how I got absolutely hammered for saying let's judge Hurst after 8 games... "give him longer" "he'll need to be given much more time"... when I meant judge his system and progression

Whereas a large proportion of the board seemed to give up on him after about 6 games!

But yes - I say 15 games before any judgement.. and even then i'm still looking for just signs of change and embedding.. not the finished product

See LanHenners.. flexibility to change! Are you an early Hurst Outer?

Poll:

How many points will Town get from 5 (Wat, Boro, Hull, Cov, Hudd)?

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:15 - Oct 1 with 2644 views

DanTheMan

First it was 10 games, then I've seen people saying Christmas.

Might as well be "we have to be mathematically relegated until we can REALLY judge Hurst".

Poll:

FM Parallel Game Week 1 (Fulham) - Available Team

agreed.... on 11:16 - Oct 1 with 2634 views

unstableblue

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:06 - Oct 1 by Steve_M
It's not the vitriol and passion of anti-Hurst arguments that should be the concern, it's the rational assessments of board members who aren't prone to get over-excitable.

.... there were the usual loony posts following Brum...

But it was concerning to read the more sensible and yet worrying match reports from the likes of Joe and Darth

Poll:

How many points will Town get from 5 (Wat, Boro, Hull, Cov, Hudd)?

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:18 - Oct 1 with 2621 views

TractorJack

Would you be able to expand on how you think the football has been better this season?

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:20 - Oct 1 with 2603 views

C_HealyIsAPleasure

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:18 - Oct 1 by TractorJack
Would you be able to expand on how you think the football has been better this season?

We’ve got more points. Wait, nope

Have at least won more games and stopped drawing at home. Oh no that’s not right either

Scored more goals? Again, nope...

	Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
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I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:28 - Oct 1 with 2571 views

artsbossbeard

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:18 - Oct 1 by TractorJack
Would you be able to expand on how you think the football has been better this season?

I've seen this from a number of posters and it kinda reminds me of Comical Ali standing at the press conferences saying that everything is ok and in hand whilst shells go off in the none too far distance.

	Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
Poll:	Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in?

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:33 - Oct 1 with 2539 views

LimitlessBlue

"I say give Hurst October; QPR and Millwall 'should' be wins, as by then the team will have been together for a significant period, Dozzell will be fit. A couple of draws from West Brom, Swansea, Leeds.... and we'll be in a good place"

Should be wins? - more than a few of the games we have played so far should have been wins!

Dozzell won't play much under Hurst I am afraid.

How will we get draws from West Brom, Swansea and Leeds?

Straw clutching in most of what you said I am afraid.

Poll:

So 2 wins out of 2 are you now.....

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:34 - Oct 1 with 2530 views

unstableblue

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:18 - Oct 1 by TractorJack
Would you be able to expand on how you think the football has been better this season?

First off (and I'm amazed the rabid 'careful what you wish for..' haven't been ranting about this) the team last season managed to Win 6 games from the first 10 (4 losses), and indeed the Millwall and Sunderland games were 'off the scale' in terms of good football..... especially Sunderland (albeit on reflection they really weren't good)... the Bolton win and Brentford wins were when those niggly doubts came in on our style... and inferior teams actually playing better on the ball.

We then went on a string of losses; and had that awful performance at Burton, when we snatched a win.

We then flopped through the season, few ups, many downs. But in general just some awful football to watch, and as always outplayed by teams at home in terms of passing. Cardiff, Hull and Millwall at home being particularly horrible and lest not forget Bristol City away. And the poor showing in the FA Cup against the Blades.

So why has it been better this term... I just think some are forgetting the majority of play from last season... and for me if you take Brentford, 2nd half, Norwich 2nd half, Villa whole game, Sheff Weds before red card, parts of first game at Rotherham, and perhaps the attacking moves of Brum on Saturday... I think the pass and move and interplay, and some performance from Edwards, Skuse and yes even Chalobah have been better than a lot of last season.

But it is very marginal! and we need to see furtehr desire and effective system on Tuesday nght!!

Poll:

How many points will Town get from 5 (Wat, Boro, Hull, Cov, Hudd)?

agreed.... on 11:37 - Oct 1 with 2516 views

Steve_M

agreed.... on 11:16 - Oct 1 by unstableblue
.... there were the usual loony posts following Brum... But it was concerning to read the more sensible and yet worrying match reports from the likes of Joe and Darth

It's normally worth avoiding the worst excesses in the immediate aftermath of any game.

The thing with Hurst at the moment is that I can't see any real progress, there's no sense of the consistent 4-1-4-1 formation or the pressing that apparently characterised his Shrewsbury side. The inability to play for 90 minutes and the continued defensive fragility are bigger concerns than the lack of goals at the moment. Without those the chances of grinding out enough results to stay up is limited.

Poll:	When are the squad numbers out?
Blog:	Cycle of Hurt

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:38 - Oct 1 with 2504 views

artsbossbeard

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:34 - Oct 1 by unstableblue

You've simply referred to last season and not offered any evidence of improvement!

	Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
Poll:	Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in?

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:42 - Oct 1 with 2472 views

unstableblue

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:33 - Oct 1 by LimitlessBlue

Just trying to remain positive - football is fine margins; sometimes takes a bit of luck and a fair wind to start a run and some confidence. But completely agree it's all very worrying.

Hoping we'll take some positive from the goals scored on Saturday - think it proved that the Hurst system can hurt players, well the Nolan goal at least - many were saying they couldn't a goal coming from anywhere.

Think we can take a point on Tuesday, but maybe not the win.

Hurst definitely rates Dozzell and maybe he'll make a sub appearance on Tuesday - that would lift the crowd.

Poll:

How many points will Town get from 5 (Wat, Boro, Hull, Cov, Hudd)?

agreed.... on 11:52 - Oct 1 with 2441 views

Darth_Koont

agreed.... on 11:16 - Oct 1 by unstableblue
.... there were the usual loony posts following Brum... But it was concerning to read the more sensible and yet worrying match reports from the likes of Joe and Darth

I took some positives out of the game. I thought we were outplayed over the 90 which hasn't been the case this season but we were clinical given the few chances we had overall and we also didn't lose. So maybe a turning point right there if we're getting more out of games than we deserve.

But interested to see a thread of mine that League One resurrected where I said the players will be judged on the system and not whether as individuals they're up to it. I.e. if the system fails then all the new players will look worse than they perhaps are.

Still think that's the case and we need to see what this system really delivers. So I'm not going to judge players harshly or prematurely but I think it's odd that we haven't really seen the high-pressing, high-tempo and athletic style that has been given as a reason for so many signings (and not using our own kids).

At some stage I just need to see what we're actually aiming for and whether it's a good approach for either climbing the league or staving off a relegation battle. That's the concern at the moment, perhaps even more than the points total and the lack of a win.

Pronouns: He/Him

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:54 - Oct 1 with 2435 views

TractorJack

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:34 - Oct 1 by unstableblue

Not sure if you're talking about good football or just good performances because we defended really well against Villa but can't say there was any good football. That second half spell against Norwich was good sustained pressure but it was all direct up to Walters and set pieces.

Not saying last season was good but it was more effective and for what it's worth the passing stats are almost identical so far.

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:55 - Oct 1 with 2418 views

LankHenners

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:38 - Oct 1 by artsbossbeard
You've simply referred to last season and not offered any evidence of improvement!

Yes he has - he’s pointed out to a few 20 minute spells where we weren’t utterly useless! Improvement is through the roof!

	Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
Poll:	What is Celina's problem?

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:02 - Oct 1 with 2386 views

ITFCBlues

He needs 3-4 transfer windows to be properly judged. He's come in and made a lot of changes, but it's clear that some of the old guard are simply not capable of playing a more expansive game. Skuse - as good as he is doing the dirty defensive work isn't going to be picking the ball up from the CB and passing forwards. Knudsen similar - he just launches the ball at every opportunity.

It'll take time for change to properly come. I'm all for keeping him regardless of what may be. Sacking him just brings another MM type and frankly no one really wants that - even if we may have 1-2 more wins by now.

My only concern is the talk of all the chatter behidn the scenes - even if that fire appears to have been put out somewhat.

Poll:

Has our squad been improved this summer?

agreed.... on 12:02 - Oct 1 with 2385 views

Vic

agreed.... on 11:37 - Oct 1 by Steve_M

You’re entirely right.

I’ve only been able to get to the Blackburn game but noticed there that a good deal of our football was ponderous, devoid of the consistent pressing that we’d been told to expect. Apart from the thrill of the early goal and that wonderful flick and run by Edwards in the 2nd half there really wasn’t much to excite in that game.

We all said it was fitness, players not being used to each other’s, etc, etc, and expected/hoped it would click.

But it simply hasn’t. Nothing has changed, apart - inevitably - from the confidence of the players which has got lower with each game leading to increasingly disjointed displays.

It all suggests to me that PH really hasn’t been able to get the players playing his way - which is a bit of a problem after 11 games!

The sendings off are a bit of a symptom of players trying to hard, which again suggests they are trying to play above themselves.

There are just so many things that aren’t right at the moment - a win can’t come soon enough. I really hope I’m wrong, I very much want this Hurst experiment to work. But since 4 games in Ive had my doubts.

Poll:

Right now, who would you rather have as Prime Minister?

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:15 - Oct 1 with 2347 views

TheTrueBlue1878

Think Millwall game is a fair judgement. I originally said 15 games, although poor first 10 has lead me to pre assessment already. But do think Millwall is more of a fair assessment.

I actually dont think Hurst is the problem. I agree with other posters that the squad quality is terrible, it is that of L1 standard, but in fairness you have to say, Hurst had the £10m to spend and hasn't spent it well enough for me. So could be perceived as a combination of both, but in isolation I think Paul Hurst is a very very good manager.

Poll:

Would you be happy with Paul Lambert?

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:21 - Oct 1 with 2317 views

Vic

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:15 - Oct 1 by TheTrueBlue1878

I don’t want to right him off yet - but how can you say that he’s a very, very good manager when he bought the squad but can’t get them playing? He’s entirely responsible for the squad quality!

Poll:

Right now, who would you rather have as Prime Minister?

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:26 - Oct 1 with 2279 views

unstableblue

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:55 - Oct 1 by LankHenners
Yes he has - he’s pointed out to a few 20 minute spells where we weren’t utterly useless! Improvement is through the roof!

Ooooh you devil....

70mins Rotherham
90mins villa
30mins Norwich
45 mins Brentford
40mins Sheffield weds.....

That's a fare total

Poll:

How many points will Town get from 5 (Wat, Boro, Hull, Cov, Hudd)?

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:29 - Oct 1 with 2263 views

PJH

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:15 - Oct 1 by TheTrueBlue1878

I think that you should add the words "at league one level" to your last sentence based on the evidence from the past and present-if he is still here in a years time we might get to find out how true that is.

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:38 - Oct 1 with 2217 views

HennikerBlu

I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:06 - Oct 1 by Steve_M
It's not the vitriol and passion of anti-Hurst arguments that should be the concern, it's the rational assessments of board members who aren't prone to get over-excitable.

You are right Steve. The odd 'regular rant' is to be expected, but genuine concerns have been raised and if you are in the local community you don't have to look far to hear them. However, how much of this is the change management process and how much is a real issue, perhaps we will not know until the January window.

It is a matter of fact that PH has struggled in games when he has been in a winning or in strong position and against promoted sides; coupled with our inability to sustain pressure or defend as a unit. For me PH has to learn from these experiences, be more clinical and appreciate that there are smart managers at this level as Monk ably demonstrated.

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