| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... 11:02 - Oct 1 with 5227 views | unstableblue |
.. a lot of vitriol and passion against Hurst all ready on this board. As I said the dial seems to have gone up to 11 very quickly in terms of people feeling he's not up to the task.
Understandable perhaps given league position and lack of a win. I think the Hull performance was pivotal, being the first time we've looked completely out of our depth.
I still have faith in our diminutive leader, you don't suddenly become a poor manager.
My concern with Hurst has always been lack of goals - Shrews were not free scoring - and whether he could entertain (no point getting rid of Mick on the grounds the football was unwatchable, and then get another dire manager in) - I personally think the football in the main has been much more enjoyable on the eye this season, albeit not consistently.
I say give Hurst October; QPR and Millwall 'should' be wins, as by then the team will have been together for a significant period, Dozzell will be fit. A couple of draws from West Brom, Swansea, Leeds.... and we'll be in a good place.
So in summary, its bad, but its not as awful as some are making out, 7 points from October's 15, and we'd surely all be happy?
I'll be there on Tuesday, maybe solo, so no mates views I'm afraid! Keep the unbeaten home run alive!
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:42 - Oct 1 with 2516 views | peterleeblue |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:15 - Oct 1 by DanTheMan |
First it was 10 games, then I've seen people saying Christmas.
Might as well be "we have to be mathematically relegated until we can REALLY judge Hurst". |
Hows a bout we get relegated and come back all the stronger for it. We will certainly THEN have the best man for the job.
I get we might not come straight back up but we probably have a good team for that level - I cant see too many want aways. |  | | |
| agreed.... on 12:47 - Oct 1 with 2503 views | unstableblue |
| agreed.... on 11:52 - Oct 1 by Darth_Koont |
I took some positives out of the game. I thought we were outplayed over the 90 which hasn't been the case this season but we were clinical given the few chances we had overall and we also didn't lose. So maybe a turning point right there if we're getting more out of games than we deserve.
But interested to see a thread of mine that League One resurrected where I said the players will be judged on the system and not whether as individuals they're up to it. I.e. if the system fails then all the new players will look worse than they perhaps are.
Still think that's the case and we need to see what this system really delivers. So I'm not going to judge players harshly or prematurely but I think it's odd that we haven't really seen the high-pressing, high-tempo and athletic style that has been given as a reason for so many signings (and not using our own kids).
At some stage I just need to see what we're actually aiming for and whether it's a good approach for either climbing the league or staving off a relegation battle. That's the concern at the moment, perhaps even more than the points total and the lack of a win. |
We saw the high pressing spades against villa, even before the sending off, and I was glorious.
Agree the energy has not been present in other games.
Will need it against Boro though. | |
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:48 - Oct 1 with 2499 views | HennikerBlu |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:42 - Oct 1 by peterleeblue |
Hows a bout we get relegated and come back all the stronger for it. We will certainly THEN have the best man for the job.
I get we might not come straight back up but we probably have a good team for that level - I cant see too many want aways. |
Financially and with a degree of apathy in the local fanbase that would be a catastrophe. It really is not an option for us.
For some reason we simply do not attract the financial interest as other clubs have. I have often wondered if that might change, as we are not that far from London, but the road and rail links are problematical. |  | | |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:49 - Oct 1 with 2486 views | Benters2 |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:15 - Oct 1 by DanTheMan |
First it was 10 games, then I've seen people saying Christmas.
Might as well be "we have to be mathematically relegated until we can REALLY judge Hurst". |
I make you right | | | |
| agreed.... on 12:56 - Oct 1 with 2462 views | Darth_Koont |
| agreed.... on 12:47 - Oct 1 by unstableblue |
We saw the high pressing spades against villa, even before the sending off, and I was glorious.
Agree the energy has not been present in other games.
Will need it against Boro though. |
Hmmm not convinced of that versus Villa. In any case, it can't be a style that only comes out when we're at home playing a side that wasn't really firing in midfield or showing much urgency.
I haven't seen us take control of territory and/or possession this season bar the odd 10-15 minute spell. Plus we haven't been pushing at the end much to demonstrate superior fitness. It's all been a bit featureless and aimless. I want to put that down to confidence and an unwillingness to get on the front foot and actually play further up the pitch but I just don't know. |  |
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:58 - Oct 1 with 2471 views | chicoazul |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 11:15 - Oct 1 by DanTheMan |
First it was 10 games, then I've seen people saying Christmas.
Might as well be "we have to be mathematically relegated until we can REALLY judge Hurst". |
Let's judge our League 1 Manager and his League 1 players when we are in League 1, its only fair. |  |
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:01 - Oct 1 with 2461 views | HennikerBlu |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 12:49 - Oct 1 by Benters2 |
I make you right |
This is the nub of the issue. Results are secondary whilst the team is being built in PH's image, the problem is seeing sustained improvements on the pitch. It is pointless saying a number of games, if it is not working then a decisions need to be made sooner rather than later.
On the other hand if PH can sort things out, then surely that is preferable to further changes, but that also includes behind the scenes. The issue with players confidence has little to do with fans, who have been great if less vocal in the Bolton game. So Mr PH sort the confidence out as you are the leader. | | | |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:02 - Oct 1 with 2470 views | itfcjoe |
I think Hurst has continually shot himself in the foot - made a huge play about how key fitness was - how we needed a strong pre season and then chopped and changed his squad too much after that.
The following players went to Spain on the intense tour designed to set us up for the season:
Gerken
Emmanuel
Vincent-Young
Chambers
Kenlock
Chalobah
Adeyemi
Dozzell
Ward
Folami
Garner
Wright
Woolfenden
Spence
Cotter
Nydam
Skuse
Downes
Roberts
Sears
Waghorn
Is that squad much worse than the one we currently have (but with Bart and Jonas back) - I'd argue not really.
But rather than building on what we have we have done the following from those guys
Out on loan - Emmanuel, Woolfenden, Nydam
No longer at club - Vincent-Young, Garner, Waghorn
Not in 1st team picture - Folami, Dozzell, Cotter, Roberts
Injured - Adeyemi
Our regular starting team is something along the lines of
Bart or Gerks
Donacien/Pennington
Chambers
Nsiala
Knudsen
Skuse
Chalobah
Nolan
Edwards
Ward, Graham
Harrison/Jackson
It must p155 Evans off that Hurst has come in and said I need this expensive pre season, bin off Ireland, and I want to get these players fit as f*ck and then brought in a further 10 signings who have had patchy pre seasons and we don't look a fit team.
He needs to get back to basics, play the players fit enough to play his style and almost not worry about quality for a couple of games.
The U23s and U18s who had a tough pre season are walking all over their opposition and look much fitter - the first team just doesn't.
Too many changes, too quickly and he'll lose his job if he can't get us out of the bottom 3 soon which will be a shame |  |
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:04 - Oct 1 with 2463 views | Pinewoodblue |
See unstable is living up to his user name. Starts by saying Hurst shouldn't be fully judged until after Millwall, then changes to shouldn't make any judgement until after Millwall, then makes a judgement on how we have been playing so far.
Wonder if, after Millwall, it will be no judgement until after Bristol City or perhaps Christmas, or after the January transfer window.
Think it is more a question of minding the gap. If we are still in the bottom three and there is a 4 point gap above us then time has run out. |  |
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:05 - Oct 1 with 2452 views | chicoazul |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:01 - Oct 1 by HennikerBlu |
This is the nub of the issue. Results are secondary whilst the team is being built in PH's image, the problem is seeing sustained improvements on the pitch. It is pointless saying a number of games, if it is not working then a decisions need to be made sooner rather than later.
On the other hand if PH can sort things out, then surely that is preferable to further changes, but that also includes behind the scenes. The issue with players confidence has little to do with fans, who have been great if less vocal in the Bolton game. So Mr PH sort the confidence out as you are the leader. |
"Results are secondary whilst the team is being built in PH's image"
The arrogance of this theory is amazing. To think that results dont matter, that Hurst is building something and that something will see us bounce back and sweep all before us with a non-set period of time is ridiculous. | |
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:06 - Oct 1 with 2446 views | unstableblue |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:04 - Oct 1 by Pinewoodblue |
See unstable is living up to his user name. Starts by saying Hurst shouldn't be fully judged until after Millwall, then changes to shouldn't make any judgement until after Millwall, then makes a judgement on how we have been playing so far.
Wonder if, after Millwall, it will be no judgement until after Bristol City or perhaps Christmas, or after the January transfer window.
Think it is more a question of minding the gap. If we are still in the bottom three and there is a 4 point gap above us then time has run out. |
Thanks! | |
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:11 - Oct 1 with 2433 views | unstableblue |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:02 - Oct 1 by itfcjoe |
I think Hurst has continually shot himself in the foot - made a huge play about how key fitness was - how we needed a strong pre season and then chopped and changed his squad too much after that.
The following players went to Spain on the intense tour designed to set us up for the season:
Gerken
Emmanuel
Vincent-Young
Chambers
Kenlock
Chalobah
Adeyemi
Dozzell
Ward
Folami
Garner
Wright
Woolfenden
Spence
Cotter
Nydam
Skuse
Downes
Roberts
Sears
Waghorn
Is that squad much worse than the one we currently have (but with Bart and Jonas back) - I'd argue not really.
But rather than building on what we have we have done the following from those guys
Out on loan - Emmanuel, Woolfenden, Nydam
No longer at club - Vincent-Young, Garner, Waghorn
Not in 1st team picture - Folami, Dozzell, Cotter, Roberts
Injured - Adeyemi
Our regular starting team is something along the lines of
Bart or Gerks
Donacien/Pennington
Chambers
Nsiala
Knudsen
Skuse
Chalobah
Nolan
Edwards
Ward, Graham
Harrison/Jackson
It must p155 Evans off that Hurst has come in and said I need this expensive pre season, bin off Ireland, and I want to get these players fit as f*ck and then brought in a further 10 signings who have had patchy pre seasons and we don't look a fit team.
He needs to get back to basics, play the players fit enough to play his style and almost not worry about quality for a couple of games.
The U23s and U18s who had a tough pre season are walking all over their opposition and look much fitter - the first team just doesn't.
Too many changes, too quickly and he'll lose his job if he can't get us out of the bottom 3 soon which will be a shame |
Yes as I said in agreeing with a point Darth made... the fitness and high pressing game has only been seen really for a full 90mins against Villa.
I do think Dozzell is in the first team picture, and as I expect Tuesday to be tight, he may be brought on to 'unpick the lock'
I definitely think Hurst shot himself in the foot with Donacien being left out of the squad, and then his attempts to get more attacking bite with Walters and Graham. I don't think Morris and Nydam should have gone out (and those loans are not working (unlike Wolfenden). It feels like he is reverting back to Jackson and Sears.. and that feels weak.
The loss of Waghorn cannot be underestimated, we'd be in a different place I'm sure if he had stayed.
Agree Hurst needs to stick to his plan and preferred players.. walters and graham as stated have been a distraction.
I do think Edun is better than some of our youungsters and should be integrated.
We'll know more come end of Tuesday. I fancy us for at least a point. | |
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| Results are secondary whilst the team is being built in PH's image.. on 13:12 - Oct 1 with 2429 views | Pinewoodblue |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:01 - Oct 1 by HennikerBlu |
This is the nub of the issue. Results are secondary whilst the team is being built in PH's image, the problem is seeing sustained improvements on the pitch. It is pointless saying a number of games, if it is not working then a decisions need to be made sooner rather than later.
On the other hand if PH can sort things out, then surely that is preferable to further changes, but that also includes behind the scenes. The issue with players confidence has little to do with fans, who have been great if less vocal in the Bolton game. So Mr PH sort the confidence out as you are the leader. |
You have to say he is succeeding as they are coming up short. | |
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:15 - Oct 1 with 2428 views | HennikerBlu |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:02 - Oct 1 by itfcjoe |
I think Hurst has continually shot himself in the foot - made a huge play about how key fitness was - how we needed a strong pre season and then chopped and changed his squad too much after that.
The following players went to Spain on the intense tour designed to set us up for the season:
Gerken
Emmanuel
Vincent-Young
Chambers
Kenlock
Chalobah
Adeyemi
Dozzell
Ward
Folami
Garner
Wright
Woolfenden
Spence
Cotter
Nydam
Skuse
Downes
Roberts
Sears
Waghorn
Is that squad much worse than the one we currently have (but with Bart and Jonas back) - I'd argue not really.
But rather than building on what we have we have done the following from those guys
Out on loan - Emmanuel, Woolfenden, Nydam
No longer at club - Vincent-Young, Garner, Waghorn
Not in 1st team picture - Folami, Dozzell, Cotter, Roberts
Injured - Adeyemi
Our regular starting team is something along the lines of
Bart or Gerks
Donacien/Pennington
Chambers
Nsiala
Knudsen
Skuse
Chalobah
Nolan
Edwards
Ward, Graham
Harrison/Jackson
It must p155 Evans off that Hurst has come in and said I need this expensive pre season, bin off Ireland, and I want to get these players fit as f*ck and then brought in a further 10 signings who have had patchy pre seasons and we don't look a fit team.
He needs to get back to basics, play the players fit enough to play his style and almost not worry about quality for a couple of games.
The U23s and U18s who had a tough pre season are walking all over their opposition and look much fitter - the first team just doesn't.
Too many changes, too quickly and he'll lose his job if he can't get us out of the bottom 3 soon which will be a shame |
Good post Joe as always, a couple of thoughts/questions:
"He needs to get back to basics, play the players fit enough to play his style and almost not worry about quality for a couple of games."
What do think his first 11+ should be?
"The U23s and U18s who had a tough pre season are walking all over their opposition and look much fitter - the first team just doesn't."
Do you think finding that 'extra yard' is more a reflection of confidence? If this is the case what is impacting the confidence of the first team?
As an aside, I enjoyed the games under Klug and team last season. No shortage of confidence in the youth players (in fairness MM played a few too). | | | |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:30 - Oct 1 with 2396 views | HennikerBlu |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:05 - Oct 1 by chicoazul |
"Results are secondary whilst the team is being built in PH's image"
The arrogance of this theory is amazing. To think that results dont matter, that Hurst is building something and that something will see us bounce back and sweep all before us with a non-set period of time is ridiculous. |
I agree, however the actions and early interviews were very uncompromising regarding his expectations and comments re-players fitness and capabilities. I used the phrase to illustrate how I perceive he has approached building the side versus getting the results. Obviously, neither seem to be coming off.
In fairness, there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance (i.e. Fergie, Mourinho). For example, in an PH interview, when asked if you are going to take up Knudsen's contract extension in which he answered categorically no, after which the player then says in an interview he has not heard from the club. Clearly some will see Knudsen being treated equally and has to prove himself, others will say that PH should perhaps have not answered the question until he spoke to the player.
None of which would be an issue if confidence was not a factor on the pitch which it evidently is. | | | |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:33 - Oct 1 with 2391 views | backwiththeboysagain |
7 points from a possible 15 this month. Can’t see that, unless Hurst is sacked during the international break. Otherwise I’d say 2 points from the five games is more realistic. |  | | |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:35 - Oct 1 with 2386 views | chicoazul |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:30 - Oct 1 by HennikerBlu |
I agree, however the actions and early interviews were very uncompromising regarding his expectations and comments re-players fitness and capabilities. I used the phrase to illustrate how I perceive he has approached building the side versus getting the results. Obviously, neither seem to be coming off.
In fairness, there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance (i.e. Fergie, Mourinho). For example, in an PH interview, when asked if you are going to take up Knudsen's contract extension in which he answered categorically no, after which the player then says in an interview he has not heard from the club. Clearly some will see Knudsen being treated equally and has to prove himself, others will say that PH should perhaps have not answered the question until he spoke to the player.
None of which would be an issue if confidence was not a factor on the pitch which it evidently is. |
You can be as arrogant as you like if you can back it up. Nobody says Trump Ronaldo or Kanye are too arrogant. You touch there on one of what I consider to be Hurst's many errors when he started here; calling out senior pros. | |
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:38 - Oct 1 with 2378 views | HennikerBlu |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:35 - Oct 1 by chicoazul |
You can be as arrogant as you like if you can back it up. Nobody says Trump Ronaldo or Kanye are too arrogant. You touch there on one of what I consider to be Hurst's many errors when he started here; calling out senior pros. |
Spot on. I have to pop out, but some good points all round.
Fingers crossed, we can turn it round or if the issues are as bad, lets get decisions made. | | | |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:46 - Oct 1 with 2359 views | Vic |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:35 - Oct 1 by chicoazul |
You can be as arrogant as you like if you can back it up. Nobody says Trump Ronaldo or Kanye are too arrogant. You touch there on one of what I consider to be Hurst's many errors when he started here; calling out senior pros. |
You made me spit out my coffee! No one says Trump is too arrogant! REALLY? |  |
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 14:38 - Oct 1 with 2317 views | reusersfreekicks |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:35 - Oct 1 by chicoazul |
You can be as arrogant as you like if you can back it up. Nobody says Trump Ronaldo or Kanye are too arrogant. You touch there on one of what I consider to be Hurst's many errors when he started here; calling out senior pros. |
What!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nearly everyone says Trump is too arrogant and whatever he is meant to be living upto he certainly isn't unless it's chaos centred on narcissism |  | | |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 14:39 - Oct 1 with 2313 views | chicoazul |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:46 - Oct 1 by Vic |
You made me spit out my coffee! No one says Trump is too arrogant! REALLY? |
By which I mean, he is exactly arrogant enough. | |
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 15:33 - Oct 1 with 2272 views | Vic |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 14:39 - Oct 1 by chicoazul |
By which I mean, he is exactly arrogant enough. |
Sorry, I'm not following you on! Maybe I'm being thick, but I've no idea what you mean! | |
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| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 15:34 - Oct 1 with 2268 views | Benters2 |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 13:05 - Oct 1 by chicoazul |
"Results are secondary whilst the team is being built in PH's image"
The arrogance of this theory is amazing. To think that results dont matter, that Hurst is building something and that something will see us bounce back and sweep all before us with a non-set period of time is ridiculous. |
How odd what a funny thing to say ! Shall we pause all the other clubs and make them wait until
We are ready !! FFS | | | |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 18:50 - Oct 1 with 2199 views | Currie10 |
Of course he can be judged pre Millwall.
He has to MAKE it to Millwall first............. |  | | |
| I don't think Hurst should be fully judged till after the Millwall game... on 18:51 - Oct 1 with 2197 views | Mullet |
Oh the hypocrisy! |  |
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