| I'm rather deflated this morning... 10:07 - May 11 with 2590 views | Libero |
It should go without saying that the systematic cuts that the Conservatives have made post New Labour have been dangerous and cost lives.
I start with this because there's a chance what I'm about to say could be twisted in to some kind of defence of their party and values...
You know when people watch the Great British Bake off, most of us enjoy eating cake and could probably bash up a cake mix of sorts but then there's Barry.
Barry works an average office job but after watching a few weeks of Paul Hollywood cast judgement on the contestants offerings Barry is obviously an expert baker who from the comfort of his own home offers his own valuable insight despite the top of his actual baking experience being a semi-regular trip to Greggs.
Throughout this horrible epidemic I've personally tried to avoid being the "Barry" of the virus coverage. I see so much spurious b0llocks or rhetorical questions posted with an unjustified authoritative tone, from forum posts to Facebook Mums type images being passed around Family Whatsapps, etc. Social media is rife with people giving their Barry like views of the virus and most recently government "tracking" you with data.
Ultimately my personal view is that it's fine to not be an expert with this stuff as you know, it's completely new, rather scary and most of the people who are experts have studied for near a decade or maybe even longer to reach the requisite level of knowledge needed to talk with justified authority on these subjects.
When I see some of these Barrie's making statements then claiming they called it I cringe internally and bite my digital tongue from joining in as you know, I don't really know anything so why get involved? It's just fuel on the fire which is already out of control.
I must admit that I was incredibly impressed with the furlough scheme and financial packages that the government drew up to support the nation, despite the obvious problems with a delay between claiming and receiving the money I felt that the focus of the government was to protect the people and to enable them to support protecting the NHS from the forecasted "worst case scenario" of 500k dead and hospitals on their knees.
Credit where credit is due? Right? - I've seen people claim that they had no other option, but let's be honest it's not beyond the neo-liberal rhetoric to have made even tougher slashes compared to the 80% furlough that was offered up.
I felt that some of the criticism offered and the line of questioning after about day 4/5 of the daily briefings started was pretty unproductive despite at times holding merit as an argument. I'm not sure if it's just my own personal interpretation as at the time I was very sick with Covid-19/Pneumonia but to me it felt like what was happening was bigger than party politics and the values/rhetoric that makes up those divides.
I was laid up in a room in my house without any real contact with my family for weeks. I watched a lot of daytime TV, most of which featured people being d1cks and claiming that "Stay Home" wasn't a clear enough message, asking disingenuous rhetorical questions and showing a general level of tw@ttery that I thought considering the stakes was in poor, poor taste.
This wasn't to say that I didn't understand and agree with several of the criticisms (I have friends and family who are nurses/midwives/keyworkers) but something about the reporting got my back up, again maybe because I was in a very uncertain situation myself at the time and at the point in question I think the messaging was pretty crystal clear, albeit a little late in being delivered.
Enter Johnson last night...
In one swoop all of that was good about their handling of the situation has been compromised and a where the messaging was clear it has been muddied and blurred to the point where the kind of press sh1thouserry I mentioned a little further up is actually justified.
Essentially it appears that a lovely neo-liberal filter has now been placed over the entire situation. The owness is now on the individual to "stay alert"
Get back to work and get back there tomorrow. Productivity must be resumed, unless you're at the top of the food chain, in which case you can hide at home still...
When I contracted the virus I was well ahead of the advised protocol, working with vulnerable people we had measures in place regarding hand-washing and social distance welllllll in advance of either of these being implemented by the government, I'm very lucky that the company I now work for are very people focused and value their workforce as much as their customers.
I'd like to think that with all the measures we were taking and the serious manner in which I was treating it I was "staying alert" - yet I still managed to contract the virus...
I'm breaking my own rules with this and I'm being an absolute Barry, but I really cannot fathom the value in this move judging by any of the metrics other than money.
I so hope I'm wrong and this is a Scientific choice that is backed by data that I'm just too much of a bloody great big berk to get my head round, but to me it looks like this is just a calculated risk where various subsections and minorities in society are essentially being offered up as potentially sacrificial lambs.
Not too dissimilar to the "herd immunity" that Johnson made comment on way back when.
I work in office two days a week and at home for the rest of the week.
I've been walking to and from the office twice a week for the last 4/5 weeks now, without fail every day I do this there appears to be more people out and about both on the roads and in the streets and I see more people doing things that they potentially shouldn't be every passing week. Granted this is anecdotal and essentially means nothing, but personally I feel it say's something about the British people's attitude/collective mindset currently.
People in my immediate circle have started to make choices that I would consider unwise and this was before last night's broadcast.
I'm really not confident that with this new ownership being put on the individual to essentially make their own lock-down rules we will achieve anything like the route Johnson projected last night on his road-map. I'm sad and a little bit worried for my loved ones who work as key-workers and those who are showing such incredible restraint and discipline in attempting to shield due to their vulnerability.
In my opinion this all goes beyond petty "you voted for this" petulance or similar pathetic political point scoring, but with the choices of language and plan moving forwards that was broadcast last night I feel Johnson has reignited that tribalism and divided people in a situation where he had the opportunity to bring them together.
I am not a religious man but I pray that somehow the path chosen for us is that of least resistance. Thinking of all of TWTD and wishing you and your families health and happiness. x
[Post edited 11 May 2020 10:17]
|  | | |  |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:25 - May 11 with 2489 views | GlasgowBlue |
I think that’s a fair and reasonable post libbers. Not much more to add to what you’ve said mate. |  |
| |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:30 - May 11 with 2473 views | WeWereZombies |
That sixth paragraph is an excellent point, if the furlough rules and provisions had not been put in place then we may have experienced a great deal more social disorder. What I would say though is that we are at the start of the economic impact of that move and your 'neo-liberal' (a bit of a soundbite word in my opinion, I would prefer the less constricted and more descriptive 'laissez faire') fears will probably surface soon. Or have already surfaced in the 'get back to work' subliminal message from last night's broadcast, I guess employers will start to feel entitlement to sack those who do not return now.
On a lighter note, didn't 'Barrie's' used to be called 'Garys'? About eighteen years ago? About the time the North started jeering Andy Marshall... |  |
| |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:36 - May 11 with 2449 views | Libero |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:30 - May 11 by WeWereZombies |
That sixth paragraph is an excellent point, if the furlough rules and provisions had not been put in place then we may have experienced a great deal more social disorder. What I would say though is that we are at the start of the economic impact of that move and your 'neo-liberal' (a bit of a soundbite word in my opinion, I would prefer the less constricted and more descriptive 'laissez faire') fears will probably surface soon. Or have already surfaced in the 'get back to work' subliminal message from last night's broadcast, I guess employers will start to feel entitlement to sack those who do not return now.
On a lighter note, didn't 'Barrie's' used to be called 'Garys'? About eighteen years ago? About the time the North started jeering Andy Marshall... |
Might be worth seeing if Andy Marshall has some kind of natural immunity that can be harvested into a vaccine, seeing as he hasn't caught anything since 2001 ;) [Post edited 11 May 2020 10:36]
| | | |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:39 - May 11 with 2425 views | Swansea_Blue |
If you feel deflated now, wait until you see the cuts that'll be coming down the line after this.
A lot of the Barry types seemed to be lined up and primed by the usual people who've been driving the culture war over the last few years. It's been fascinating to see the emergence of the 'anti-lockdown' movement (for want of a better word). It took a while to get going, but it's in full flow now. And it's been driven by the mainstream too; the likes of the Telegraph going out of it's way to rubbish the safety measures and pushing for lifting of the lockdown without any justification, for example. All quite strange - not sure what they get from this, other than their backers and supporters are probably getting hit in the pocket.
Quite right on the absolution of responsibility, laying the decisions (and consequences) on the individual. It's quite different here in wales where we still have very clear guidelines. I can well understand why the devolved nations have taken a different, united, path amongst the 3 of them. There's a time for a strong state and that time is now, as the success stories like New Zealand have demonstrated perfectly. |  |
| |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:40 - May 11 with 2437 views | Guthrum |
On a related note, I was rather amused by something somebody sent me the other day:
 |  |
| |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:48 - May 11 with 2384 views | BlueBadger |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:39 - May 11 by Swansea_Blue |
If you feel deflated now, wait until you see the cuts that'll be coming down the line after this.
A lot of the Barry types seemed to be lined up and primed by the usual people who've been driving the culture war over the last few years. It's been fascinating to see the emergence of the 'anti-lockdown' movement (for want of a better word). It took a while to get going, but it's in full flow now. And it's been driven by the mainstream too; the likes of the Telegraph going out of it's way to rubbish the safety measures and pushing for lifting of the lockdown without any justification, for example. All quite strange - not sure what they get from this, other than their backers and supporters are probably getting hit in the pocket.
Quite right on the absolution of responsibility, laying the decisions (and consequences) on the individual. It's quite different here in wales where we still have very clear guidelines. I can well understand why the devolved nations have taken a different, united, path amongst the 3 of them. There's a time for a strong state and that time is now, as the success stories like New Zealand have demonstrated perfectly. |
Oh yeah, look at the language regarding furlough in the last week with Rishi Sunak apparently worried that people are 'addicted' to it. |  |
| |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:51 - May 11 with 2367 views | Libero |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:39 - May 11 by Swansea_Blue |
If you feel deflated now, wait until you see the cuts that'll be coming down the line after this.
A lot of the Barry types seemed to be lined up and primed by the usual people who've been driving the culture war over the last few years. It's been fascinating to see the emergence of the 'anti-lockdown' movement (for want of a better word). It took a while to get going, but it's in full flow now. And it's been driven by the mainstream too; the likes of the Telegraph going out of it's way to rubbish the safety measures and pushing for lifting of the lockdown without any justification, for example. All quite strange - not sure what they get from this, other than their backers and supporters are probably getting hit in the pocket.
Quite right on the absolution of responsibility, laying the decisions (and consequences) on the individual. It's quite different here in wales where we still have very clear guidelines. I can well understand why the devolved nations have taken a different, united, path amongst the 3 of them. There's a time for a strong state and that time is now, as the success stories like New Zealand have demonstrated perfectly. |
Aye, you're not wrong.
I'm just squirrelling away as much money every month as I can at the moment in preparation for the forthcoming. Renewed our mortgage in February for another 2 years and got a very decent deal, expecting a very different landscape when it's next up for renewal. | | | |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:52 - May 11 with 2360 views | footers |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:40 - May 11 by Guthrum |
On a related note, I was rather amused by something somebody sent me the other day:
|
Amateur. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 11:06 - May 11 with 2313 views | Libero |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:40 - May 11 by Guthrum |
On a related note, I was rather amused by something somebody sent me the other day:
|
Never again do I want to hear the question "how do you eat yours?" | | | |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 11:06 - May 11 with 2312 views | WeWereZombies |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:52 - May 11 by footers |
Amateur. |
Tsk, if you had read the article properly you would realise that he did this while he was at the checkout in Sainsbury's. And, having taking the wrappers off and not broken a single creme egg in this impressive feat he was able to re-wrap them expertly and place them back on the display. Respect the Barry, you Islington elitist... | |
| |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 11:20 - May 11 with 2274 views | Kieran_Knows |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:40 - May 11 by Guthrum |
On a related note, I was rather amused by something somebody sent me the other day:
|
I suspect he was alert for that. |  |
| |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 11:24 - May 11 with 2263 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:52 - May 11 by footers |
Amateur. |
Ostrich eggs were they? | |
| |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 11:28 - May 11 with 2249 views | footers |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 11:24 - May 11 by Swansea_Blue |
Ostrich eggs were they? |
Faberge. The Russian embassy won't allow me back for a while now. | |
| |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 11:41 - May 11 with 2220 views | Libero |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:25 - May 11 by GlasgowBlue |
I think that’s a fair and reasonable post libbers. Not much more to add to what you’ve said mate. |
Thanks mate, but I suspect your endorsement has just null and void my disclaimer at the start of my post :') | | | |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 12:03 - May 11 with 2152 views | GlasgowBlue |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 11:41 - May 11 by Libero |
Thanks mate, but I suspect your endorsement has just null and void my disclaimer at the start of my post :') |
Sorry about that libbers. | |
| |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 12:08 - May 11 with 2120 views | Libero |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 12:03 - May 11 by GlasgowBlue |
Sorry about that libbers. |
Tongue firmly in cheek mate, much appreciated. | | | |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 12:29 - May 11 with 2068 views | Chutney |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 10:48 - May 11 by BlueBadger |
Oh yeah, look at the language regarding furlough in the last week with Rishi Sunak apparently worried that people are 'addicted' to it. |
I think the furlough take up definitely took the government by surprise, and the bill will too when all is said and done. The stay at home message worked too well in that respect. Now I can only assume the government are thinking of the purse and sending folk back out to work when there's still deep uncertainty around the rate of infection and prevalence of this thing in society due to the lack of testing. It's a mess, exacerbated by the leadership vacuum that existed in the early throws which resulted in locking down too late.
These are unprecedented times, and I do have a huge amount of sympathy for our government. I think on the whole MP's generally come in for too much criticism. They're human beings, and by and large they're truly public servants who are typically not paid a huge amount relative to their intellect and qualifications. With regards to corona virus I do also think it's short sighted to make international comparisons given there are so many variables at play.
However it's important to hold the government to account. There's a way of doing it, and as leader of the opposition I would like to see Starmer offer some practical alternatives. It's all too easy to sit on the sideline and apply hindsight, but I've not yet heard him nail his colours to the mast. Why would he when he can sit tight and watch BJ in such a difficult position? But I would have more time for him if he came with workable solutions rather than a pointing finger.
The fears a lot of people had about Johnson have proved his downfall. He's a good time Prime Minister, he's charismatic and rousing, but he's not in the detail enough to lead through something like this. He's not serious enough. He was too busy playing the clown. This 'project last gasp', while being a throwaway comment, is really telling of him as a character. There's serious questions to be asked about how the government have managed this. |  | | |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 15:00 - May 11 with 1919 views | Libero |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 12:29 - May 11 by Chutney |
I think the furlough take up definitely took the government by surprise, and the bill will too when all is said and done. The stay at home message worked too well in that respect. Now I can only assume the government are thinking of the purse and sending folk back out to work when there's still deep uncertainty around the rate of infection and prevalence of this thing in society due to the lack of testing. It's a mess, exacerbated by the leadership vacuum that existed in the early throws which resulted in locking down too late.
These are unprecedented times, and I do have a huge amount of sympathy for our government. I think on the whole MP's generally come in for too much criticism. They're human beings, and by and large they're truly public servants who are typically not paid a huge amount relative to their intellect and qualifications. With regards to corona virus I do also think it's short sighted to make international comparisons given there are so many variables at play.
However it's important to hold the government to account. There's a way of doing it, and as leader of the opposition I would like to see Starmer offer some practical alternatives. It's all too easy to sit on the sideline and apply hindsight, but I've not yet heard him nail his colours to the mast. Why would he when he can sit tight and watch BJ in such a difficult position? But I would have more time for him if he came with workable solutions rather than a pointing finger.
The fears a lot of people had about Johnson have proved his downfall. He's a good time Prime Minister, he's charismatic and rousing, but he's not in the detail enough to lead through something like this. He's not serious enough. He was too busy playing the clown. This 'project last gasp', while being a throwaway comment, is really telling of him as a character. There's serious questions to be asked about how the government have managed this. |
I've read this through a few times and lots of it just doesn't sit well with me, unfortunately a lot of it comes across as exactly the kind of point scoring and finger pointing that I think Johnson's broadcast yesterday encouraged, but what I found particularly jarring was your assertion about MP's and their value.
"they're truly public servants who are typically not paid a huge amount relative to their intellect and qualifications"
While I agree with the general point that criticism of MP's can be misplaced and harsh these individuals are paid the best part of £82k, they claim allowances to cover the cost of running their offices and employing staff and are funded to have homes in both their constituency and London...
Consider that against the majority of those currently "key working" who aren't even close to achieving the average salary of someone in the UK which is around one third of the MP's basic wage...
We've got to stop this whole fallacy where we align certain attributes to being "high/low skill" - you claim a certain level of intellect and qualifications is what justifies the MP's wage when in reality there is no standardised level of either across MP's and certainly no evidence to prove that the level of intellect of an MP is any higher than that of a Support Worker for example.
Remember the country has been held together over the last two months by "low skill" workers who are typically not paid a huge amount relative to the importance of their roles and the long hours they work. | | | |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 17:10 - May 11 with 1841 views | Chutney |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 15:00 - May 11 by Libero |
I've read this through a few times and lots of it just doesn't sit well with me, unfortunately a lot of it comes across as exactly the kind of point scoring and finger pointing that I think Johnson's broadcast yesterday encouraged, but what I found particularly jarring was your assertion about MP's and their value.
"they're truly public servants who are typically not paid a huge amount relative to their intellect and qualifications"
While I agree with the general point that criticism of MP's can be misplaced and harsh these individuals are paid the best part of £82k, they claim allowances to cover the cost of running their offices and employing staff and are funded to have homes in both their constituency and London...
Consider that against the majority of those currently "key working" who aren't even close to achieving the average salary of someone in the UK which is around one third of the MP's basic wage...
We've got to stop this whole fallacy where we align certain attributes to being "high/low skill" - you claim a certain level of intellect and qualifications is what justifies the MP's wage when in reality there is no standardised level of either across MP's and certainly no evidence to prove that the level of intellect of an MP is any higher than that of a Support Worker for example.
Remember the country has been held together over the last two months by "low skill" workers who are typically not paid a huge amount relative to the importance of their roles and the long hours they work. |
I don't think you're comparing apples with apples there. I'm not disputing £82k + benefits isn't a good wage, especially relative to the majority of key workers. It's a damn sight more than I earn, and I take your point about those key workers being the jobs that really keep the world moving, and more power to them. If one positive comes out of this, hopefully it'll be a greater appreciation for what are the real key jobs, and it's not the investment bankers in Canary Wharf that people rely on in a crisis.
My frustration is that there's a wide held view in the UK, not helped by such things as the expenses scandal and questionable private lives of some, that MP's are a bunch of self serving charlatans. I've seen it on here as recently as today comparing them with primary school children. I' not doubting that accusation could be made of some, but I really believe that the majority are harshly treated by the public. Perhaps I'm naive, and I must confess to this subject being a bit close to home, but there are a great number of MP's that forgo many more lucrative career paths and opportunities to serve the public, with a genuine desire to create a better country. It's difficult to quantify, but I would think the mean average salary of MP's would be greater if they pursued careers in public sector roles. | | | |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 11:59 - May 12 with 1699 views | Libero |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 17:10 - May 11 by Chutney |
I don't think you're comparing apples with apples there. I'm not disputing £82k + benefits isn't a good wage, especially relative to the majority of key workers. It's a damn sight more than I earn, and I take your point about those key workers being the jobs that really keep the world moving, and more power to them. If one positive comes out of this, hopefully it'll be a greater appreciation for what are the real key jobs, and it's not the investment bankers in Canary Wharf that people rely on in a crisis.
My frustration is that there's a wide held view in the UK, not helped by such things as the expenses scandal and questionable private lives of some, that MP's are a bunch of self serving charlatans. I've seen it on here as recently as today comparing them with primary school children. I' not doubting that accusation could be made of some, but I really believe that the majority are harshly treated by the public. Perhaps I'm naive, and I must confess to this subject being a bit close to home, but there are a great number of MP's that forgo many more lucrative career paths and opportunities to serve the public, with a genuine desire to create a better country. It's difficult to quantify, but I would think the mean average salary of MP's would be greater if they pursued careers in public sector roles. |
I understand your frustration, my wife works in Suffolk County Council and has to deal with similar wide held views on what the organisation do/don't do that are quite often wide of the mark. I've also been fortunate enough to receive very good support from one of my local MP's on matters both professional and private, although the jury is still out on the current incumbent...
I think you just somewhat unintentionally undid your own post/point when you decided to remark on alleged intellect without any substantiation and admitting that the subject "is a bit close to home"
There are good and bad people in every walk of life and in every role. I'm just not going to give a digital pat on the back to someone who has a very high powered and privileged job because there's a chance they could be earning an even more disproportionate sum of money elsewhere.
I'm also not really sure it was particularly relevant to the discussion that was being held? [Post edited 12 May 2020 12:01]
| | | |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 14:18 - May 12 with 1634 views | GunnsAirkick |
Good post Libby. I've been critical of the Government but agree there are a lot of armchair virologists. You have to give them credit where they do get things right as it is in the interests of all of us. It's also reasonable to point out where things are going badly (without pretending you're an expert).
Also glad you're feeling better. It must be scary. [Post edited 12 May 2020 14:19]
|  | | |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 14:27 - May 12 with 1614 views | Libero |
| I'm rather deflated this morning... on 14:18 - May 12 by GunnsAirkick |
Good post Libby. I've been critical of the Government but agree there are a lot of armchair virologists. You have to give them credit where they do get things right as it is in the interests of all of us. It's also reasonable to point out where things are going badly (without pretending you're an expert).
Also glad you're feeling better. It must be scary. [Post edited 12 May 2020 14:19]
|
Cheers, buh!
Yeah, it was sincerely horrendous.
I'm now incredibly paranoid every time I get so much as a tickle in my throat or a bit of a tight chest that it's in some way mutated/returning.
Sounds crazy but although I'm operating perfectly well now I think it'll live with me mentally for a long while, I'm not looking forward to the next time I get a cold or the flu... | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
