| Is anyone else concerned by this? 15:31 - Jul 26 with 13629 views | Darth_Koont |
We’ve just had the Forde Report corroborating one of the worst political scandals in modern times, certainly the most detailed and widespread. And yet our media couldn’t be less interested – bar the fact that many of them immediately copied the Labour spokesman who spun it as a problem with Corbynism that is now over.
But the key findings of the report remain:
– An unelected bureaucracy in one of the two parties that can effectively form a national government worked against their elected leader and the democratic mandate from members of the party.
– These senior staff, whose job and purpose is to support the leader and members the party represents, secretly and as Forde points out wrongfully diverted over 100K of electoral funds to the seats of anti-Corbyn MPs. It wasn’t their money nor had they the election nor democratic brief to do so. They allege it was to protect seats but these weren’t the seats at most risk. This is also in the 2017 election where a hung parliament was on a knife edge and May barely squeaked in with the support of the DUP. So beyond the utter moral failure and democratic abuse here, these efforts may have had repercussions for the whole country and its future. I’m not saying it definitely did or would have but this is why democratic abuse like this can’t be ignored.
– Antisemitism was being weaponised by the Labour right. And, as Forde also points out, the premise for the big debate in the media and beyond (including the Panorama hatchet job) was wrong and “evidence” that Corbyn had got involved a) unbidden by the HQ staff themselves and b) to block investigations and expulsions was entirely misleading. Forde didn’t use the words “attempts to frame Corbyn that overall succeeded” but he’s a lawyer and much more careful. But I’ll certainly put that out there as a question that those involved need to answer.
– The Labour HQ staff were leaking information and briefing “friendly” journalists at every step. So, in the fight against Corbynism (a fight against social democracy and change if we’re being honest), the unelected staff decided early on to take sides against the leader and the wishes of the members. In this way, they mirrored the PLP and prominently vocal MPs who also decided to act against the party’s own internal democracy.
– The culture within the Labour Party is toxic, not just with the unprofessional and undemocratic behaviour of far too many senior staff but also with sexism and racism. Forde received many, many complaints during the evidence gathering and submission phase (plus a few legal warnings from those who knew that the Labour leaks document was true and damning). Forde, coming through loud and clear despite his lawyerly and careful language, is evidently disgusted by a lot of these internal messages and communications. And he points to an organisation that is deeply flawed and toxic.
As I say, most of these issues have been relatively common knowledge and certainly discussed but were dismissed by factional MPs and their media lackeys as allegations. Yet the Forde report absolutely corroborates them and shows that the accepted narrative of the Corbyn years was just that – a narrative people accepted.
Now, that it’s out and independently corroborated where is the media response? How can we trust a media that painted a picture that it either knew was false or that it didn’t bother to investigate?
That’s serious and worrying enough. But what do we also say about a democratic party (the opposition and only alternative, as people are always keen to remind me) that’s been hijacked by genuine rightwingers who will monster and sabotage anyone elected by members to push the case for more equality, justice and a better life for the most vulnerable and ignored in society. What gives these people the right but also the conviction that they’re there to serve other unelected interests??!
For anyone who says this is over now so no use lamenting the past, think again. The Labour Right has total control of the party now – the internal and the political organisation. It’s amended the rules and taken power from the membership to avoid a repeat of someone from the left getting elected. It’s carried on the same purge that Forde describes when staff went around “trot hunting” (instead of dealing with antisemitism cases by the way) and where a “trot” was described as “anyone left of Gordon Brown”. It’s stood by and clapped along to the most dishonest leadership campaign in UK history where Starmer has misrepresented his values and views (as pledges FFS) to then backtrack on the whole programme and the social democratic platform he himself was committed to before and after the 2019 election if you believe his frequent speeches and statements.
If Boris and his government was a democratic scandal and a sign of dysfunctional party politics (it certainly was) then this saga is the same.
So why can I only see a lack of concern in the limited coverage and almost non-existent responses? Do people really think this doesn’t matter?
[Post edited 26 Jul 2022 15:35]
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:37 - Jul 26 with 5904 views | WilbrahamBlue |
But will we sign Hirst? |  | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:37 - Jul 26 with 5908 views | Cotty |
I'm far more annoyed about what the Tories have done to this country while everyone in the Labour Party has been distracted by factional infighting. But there we are. |  | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:41 - Jul 26 with 5856 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:37 - Jul 26 by Cotty |
I'm far more annoyed about what the Tories have done to this country while everyone in the Labour Party has been distracted by factional infighting. But there we are. |
That’s not the same thing.
Although I can certainly see a connection between the two. | |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:44 - Jul 26 with 5823 views | Cotty |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:41 - Jul 26 by Darth_Koont |
That’s not the same thing.
Although I can certainly see a connection between the two. |
It's not the same as what? I don't follow. | | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:46 - Jul 26 with 5816 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:44 - Jul 26 by Cotty |
It's not the same as what? I don't follow. |
Whatever you’re talking about.
Try addressing this issue on its own merits. | |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:50 - Jul 26 with 5779 views | Cotty |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:46 - Jul 26 by Darth_Koont |
Whatever you’re talking about.
Try addressing this issue on its own merits. |
I'll pass thanks. | | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:50 - Jul 26 with 5780 views | unbelievablue |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:46 - Jul 26 by Darth_Koont |
Whatever you’re talking about.
Try addressing this issue on its own merits. |
Isn't he making a fair point though?
People would likely be concerned by it if they were presented with the information in the manner you have, but it won't be on their priority list of concerns (understandably). We all only have so much we can give to pressing issues. |  |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:51 - Jul 26 with 5775 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:50 - Jul 26 by Cotty |
I'll pass thanks. |
Yeah, I sort of got that from the start. | |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:52 - Jul 26 with 5764 views | Cotty |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:50 - Jul 26 by unbelievablue |
Isn't he making a fair point though?
People would likely be concerned by it if they were presented with the information in the manner you have, but it won't be on their priority list of concerns (understandably). We all only have so much we can give to pressing issues. |
Nero fiddles while Rome burns. | | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:57 - Jul 26 with 5758 views | blueasfook |
TL/DR?
"Blub. Jeremy was victimised. Blub" |  |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 16:03 - Jul 26 with 5673 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 15:50 - Jul 26 by unbelievablue |
Isn't he making a fair point though?
People would likely be concerned by it if they were presented with the information in the manner you have, but it won't be on their priority list of concerns (understandably). We all only have so much we can give to pressing issues. |
If I’d said the same thing about dismissing antisemitism in the party and we should be concentrating on fighting the Tories then I’d have rightfully been attacked for denying or at least trying to minimise antisemitism.
This is about antisemitism plus islamophobia, anti-BAME and misogyny. And anti-democratic political rule by unelected staff who see themselves as gatekeepers and guard dogs against socialists and social democrats. All in one of two parties that can get into power, the other being another gang of dangerous and antidemocratic reactionaries. And all studiously ignored by our media.
We talk about political integrity and respect as well as protecting against the threat of racism and other prejudices. If that’s conditional and we need to see some bigger picture, then we might as well give up now. | |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 17:25 - Jul 26 with 5476 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Other options are available- does the Green Party not align more with your politics?
The left v right battle within Labour is nothing new - until we have PR it’s too broad a church to please everyone. | | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 17:34 - Jul 26 with 5444 views | XYZ |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 17:25 - Jul 26 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Other options are available- does the Green Party not align more with your politics?
The left v right battle within Labour is nothing new - until we have PR it’s too broad a church to please everyone. |
Your implication being that the conduct was acceptable?
This conduct is not "the left v right battle". | | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 18:02 - Jul 26 with 5395 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
I am struggling to believe this of the party that gave us Peter Mandelson. |  |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 18:06 - Jul 26 with 5388 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 16:03 - Jul 26 by Darth_Koont |
If I’d said the same thing about dismissing antisemitism in the party and we should be concentrating on fighting the Tories then I’d have rightfully been attacked for denying or at least trying to minimise antisemitism.
This is about antisemitism plus islamophobia, anti-BAME and misogyny. And anti-democratic political rule by unelected staff who see themselves as gatekeepers and guard dogs against socialists and social democrats. All in one of two parties that can get into power, the other being another gang of dangerous and antidemocratic reactionaries. And all studiously ignored by our media.
We talk about political integrity and respect as well as protecting against the threat of racism and other prejudices. If that’s conditional and we need to see some bigger picture, then we might as well give up now. |
It's almost like democracy is a sham. | |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 20:29 - Jul 26 with 5250 views | CrayonKing |
I presume it’s because the big political story at the moment is the Tory leadership contest. Probably also why the report was released when it was.
I’m sure the usual papers will have plenty of choice quotes saved for closer to the next election though. |  | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 20:40 - Jul 26 with 5190 views | JakeITFC |
The whole game is rigged and not enough people seem to care.
This entire premise of 'electability' just means we end up with different liars in charge backed by party HQs who are effectively incentivised to be against anything that constitutes change (despite democratic will) because it could mean them losing their job.
Starmer lied to get to his position today, is backed-up by a genuinely awful staff who sabotaged their own party by and large and yet has a hefty lead in the polls because the electorate seemingly want something a bit like the other guys but in a red tie. [Post edited 26 Jul 2022 20:44]
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 08:48 - Jul 27 with 4880 views | Darth_Koont |
Bump | |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:30 - Jul 27 with 4712 views | Darth_Koont |
Here's some extra colour to the scandal.
Forde rightly established the integrity and good faith of the Labour leaked document and its authors – the document that was blocked from being submitted to the EHRC too.
So here are some "highlights" in this piece when the document emerged over 2 years ago. To his credit, Jon Stone has been a proper journalist on this and the Independent have also been significantlybetter than the rest. Although it's almost impossible not to be.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-electio
Lovely bunch of people! [Post edited 27 Jul 2022 14:35]
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 19:03 - Jul 27 with 4545 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:30 - Jul 27 by Darth_Koont |
Here's some extra colour to the scandal.
Forde rightly established the integrity and good faith of the Labour leaked document and its authors – the document that was blocked from being submitted to the EHRC too.
So here are some "highlights" in this piece when the document emerged over 2 years ago. To his credit, Jon Stone has been a proper journalist on this and the Independent have also been significantlybetter than the rest. Although it's almost impossible not to be.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-electio
Lovely bunch of people! [Post edited 27 Jul 2022 14:35]
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I find that the silence often speaks volumes on such matters! | |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 19:12 - Jul 27 with 4534 views | gazzer1999 |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:30 - Jul 27 by Darth_Koont |
Here's some extra colour to the scandal.
Forde rightly established the integrity and good faith of the Labour leaked document and its authors – the document that was blocked from being submitted to the EHRC too.
So here are some "highlights" in this piece when the document emerged over 2 years ago. To his credit, Jon Stone has been a proper journalist on this and the Independent have also been significantlybetter than the rest. Although it's almost impossible not to be.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-electio
Lovely bunch of people! [Post edited 27 Jul 2022 14:35]
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That's truly shocking, you can't trust the Tories and sure as night follows day you can't trust the red lot. Just another party that want's their turn at making a pigs ear of things. The main two parties stab each other, its just a really sorry state of affairs. I do not think we should vote labour just to get rid of the tories, the whole system is rotten.
We need to maybe get the best minds from the centre to form a new party to take this country forwards. We must also accept Brexit has gone and we need to make the best of where we are now. |  | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 12:14 - Jul 28 with 4389 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 19:12 - Jul 27 by gazzer1999 |
That's truly shocking, you can't trust the Tories and sure as night follows day you can't trust the red lot. Just another party that want's their turn at making a pigs ear of things. The main two parties stab each other, its just a really sorry state of affairs. I do not think we should vote labour just to get rid of the tories, the whole system is rotten.
We need to maybe get the best minds from the centre to form a new party to take this country forwards. We must also accept Brexit has gone and we need to make the best of where we are now. |
I think the “sensible centre” is a false comfort – and certainly a misnomer in its current form. For starters, it’s a time of crisis along all sorts of lines and there is almost a complete lack of policy ideas and vision coming from there. At best, there’s some vague hope that getting the Tories out is everything but that doesn’t account for the Labour right-wingers taking their place who, at this point, are effectively petitioning the establishment to be allowed to power share with the Conservatives – and in doing so stitch up our “democracy” and the status quo.
Why would they do this? IMO because they’re authoritarians who love being in the political class and playing the game of politics. And they’ll willingly do the electoral job of protecting the establishment and its interests that many are similarly doing in the media. Because ultimately going with the status quo will give them the power, influence and money too many of them crave.
This is very good. And poses some uncomfortable questions for our democracy:
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 12:23 - Jul 28 with 4349 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 19:03 - Jul 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I find that the silence often speaks volumes on such matters! |
Yep, it always does. Time to get my tumbleweed gifs going again 😀
But it’s pretty clear why those who had an awful lot to say about the Labour Party and its workings over the past 5 or 6 years are silent now. When the facts contradict their accusations they’ve literally got nothing. [Post edited 28 Jul 2022 12:24]
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 12:26 - Jul 28 with 4341 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 12:14 - Jul 28 by Darth_Koont |
I think the “sensible centre” is a false comfort – and certainly a misnomer in its current form. For starters, it’s a time of crisis along all sorts of lines and there is almost a complete lack of policy ideas and vision coming from there. At best, there’s some vague hope that getting the Tories out is everything but that doesn’t account for the Labour right-wingers taking their place who, at this point, are effectively petitioning the establishment to be allowed to power share with the Conservatives – and in doing so stitch up our “democracy” and the status quo.
Why would they do this? IMO because they’re authoritarians who love being in the political class and playing the game of politics. And they’ll willingly do the electoral job of protecting the establishment and its interests that many are similarly doing in the media. Because ultimately going with the status quo will give them the power, influence and money too many of them crave.
This is very good. And poses some uncomfortable questions for our democracy:
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Alexa, show me what the Labour Party would look like if it was run by lowhouse. | |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 12:57 - Jul 28 with 4250 views | lowhouseblue |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 12:26 - Jul 28 by Darth_Koont |
Alexa, show me what the Labour Party would look like if it was run by lowhouse. |
jeez, we've done this soooooooo many times even i find it boring. in all honesty i've also got to the point where i find your obsessive and repetitive attempts to dismiss and down play anti-semitism offensive. your constant attempts to beatify corbyn and drag him from his coffin is also getting quite odd.
but you're clearly desperate for someone to join your thread. how many times can you reply to yourself?
corbyn was utterly rejected by the electorate. he gave us an 80 seat majority for a nasty tory government. anyone who knew anything about british politics and who hadn't joined the corbyn cult predicted this. do we really need to go over all this again?? i'm not surprised that many full-time labour officials opposed corbyn. these are people who commit their lives to the party and they do that for one single reason - in order to get a labour government elected - they knew, like any sane person and as has since been proven beyond question - that with corbyn there that was utterly impossible. it wasn't infighting that made labour unelectable - it was a leader who failed the electorate's sniff test along with the extremists who'd entered the party on his coat tails.
this gives people like you a real problem. social media, and even sites like this, cause you to forget that your views are in a small minority. despite your smug sixth form pretensions to have all the political answers, perhaps only 15% of the electorate share your views. if you want to change anything (and i do wonder if you do - you seem more than happy to just pontificate in a pseudo theoretical way about how you're right about everything) then you need to form a coalition with people who disagree with you about lots of things, including lots and lots of people who voted tory in 2019. the labour party is the only vehicle to achieve that and it will never achieve it with a leader like corbyn. never. and the result is that you're never going to overthrow the establishment - most of the electorate don't want to - but if you want to get rid of the tories getting labour electable is the only way. or is all that anti-tory stuff just a pose?
personally i think you'd be happier joining the greens or corbyn's new party when he launches and just abandoning any claims about actually wanting to change anything. you can just post smug stuff about how bad britain is and how wrong everyone else is.
but this is very boring. we've done it to death. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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