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This is something our industry has been fighting with government on for ages and as a member of the panel I have to an extent been involved directly with it - and I have harped on about it on here before - since Brexit in fact.
Like many things it all sounded easy when government set UKCA up but not all bodies are self regulating. The toy industry for example can simply whack a UKCA motif on their product and say it passes, which it will because CE standards and UKCA standards are exactly the same.
My industry though, for example, is different. For us to have been able to get CE certificates (which for us have been law since 2013) we have to pay approximately €1000 to a notified body for every family of products that we sell and once UKCA came into being we were advised that we would have to pay €1000 again per family to switch to UKCA. Furthermore, we were not allowed to dual label. So, for example, if we wanted to sell to Germany we couldn't have CE and UKCA on same label, we would have to produce two wrappers and pay for two conformity certificates. This would also affect Northern Ireland because Northern Ireland would fall into CE.
The notified bodies paid UK Gov money to be accredited to administer UKCA certification. I'm not sure how much, maybe €10,000, so while they are p1ssed off I must say that I am a happy bunny because it would have cost us around €20,000 to switch to UKCA
A year ago we were less than hopeful to get this outcome, in fact we happy to have got the can kicked down the road - and it was kicked to December 2024.
There are a couple of things to point out here. Firstly, although most businesses were not affected by UKCA because of the ability to self certify, the whole thing has been a blooming nightmare for us.
Secondly, after a lot of getting nowhere it was only in early May of this year that we approached Kemi Badenoch asking for a CE extension and she in turn contacted Kevin Hollinrake as it fell under his ministerial portfolio. By end of May Kevin Hollinrake replied back to us and Alice Heales at Beis became involved.
UKCA must have sounded good to ministers at the time and I'm sure they had no idea of the ramifications, it was however a potential deathbed for a lot of firms and at the start I thought the best chance we had was an extension followed by another, and so on.
This news though is brilliant and I actually very much appreciate then fact that they have listened and seen sense.
[Post edited 1 Aug 2023 19:29]
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Taking back control? on 19:20 - Aug 1 by Lord_Lucan
This is something our industry has been fighting with government on for ages and as a member of the panel I have to an extent been involved directly with it - and I have harped on about it on here before - since Brexit in fact.
Like many things it all sounded easy when government set UKCA up but not all bodies are self regulating. The toy industry for example can simply whack a UKCA motif on their product and say it passes, which it will because CE standards and UKCA standards are exactly the same.
My industry though, for example, is different. For us to have been able to get CE certificates (which for us have been law since 2013) we have to pay approximately €1000 to a notified body for every family of products that we sell and once UKCA came into being we were advised that we would have to pay €1000 again per family to switch to UKCA. Furthermore, we were not allowed to dual label. So, for example, if we wanted to sell to Germany we couldn't have CE and UKCA on same label, we would have to produce two wrappers and pay for two conformity certificates. This would also affect Northern Ireland because Northern Ireland would fall into CE.
The notified bodies paid UK Gov money to be accredited to administer UKCA certification. I'm not sure how much, maybe €10,000, so while they are p1ssed off I must say that I am a happy bunny because it would have cost us around €20,000 to switch to UKCA
A year ago we were less than hopeful to get this outcome, in fact we happy to have got the can kicked down the road - and it was kicked to December 2024.
There are a couple of things to point out here. Firstly, although most businesses were not affected by UKCA because of the ability to self certify, the whole thing has been a blooming nightmare for us.
Secondly, after a lot of getting nowhere it was only in early May of this year that we approached Kemi Badenoch asking for a CE extension and she in turn contacted Kevin Hollinrake as it fell under his ministerial portfolio. By end of May Kevin Hollinrake replied back to us and Alice Heales at Beis became involved.
UKCA must have sounded good to ministers at the time and I'm sure they had no idea of the ramifications, it was however a potential deathbed for a lot of firms and at the start I thought the best chance we had was an extension followed by another, and so on.
This news though is brilliant and I actually very much appreciate then fact that they have listened and seen sense.
[Post edited 1 Aug 2023 19:29]
Interesting insight, but I wonder how much government and industry time and money has been spent on something that sounded great from a sovereignty point of view, but appears to have been totally misconceived and divorced from reality.
[Post edited 2 Aug 2023 7:45]
1
Taking back control? on 07:49 - Aug 2 with 2607 views
Taking back control? on 19:20 - Aug 1 by Lord_Lucan
This is something our industry has been fighting with government on for ages and as a member of the panel I have to an extent been involved directly with it - and I have harped on about it on here before - since Brexit in fact.
Like many things it all sounded easy when government set UKCA up but not all bodies are self regulating. The toy industry for example can simply whack a UKCA motif on their product and say it passes, which it will because CE standards and UKCA standards are exactly the same.
My industry though, for example, is different. For us to have been able to get CE certificates (which for us have been law since 2013) we have to pay approximately €1000 to a notified body for every family of products that we sell and once UKCA came into being we were advised that we would have to pay €1000 again per family to switch to UKCA. Furthermore, we were not allowed to dual label. So, for example, if we wanted to sell to Germany we couldn't have CE and UKCA on same label, we would have to produce two wrappers and pay for two conformity certificates. This would also affect Northern Ireland because Northern Ireland would fall into CE.
The notified bodies paid UK Gov money to be accredited to administer UKCA certification. I'm not sure how much, maybe €10,000, so while they are p1ssed off I must say that I am a happy bunny because it would have cost us around €20,000 to switch to UKCA
A year ago we were less than hopeful to get this outcome, in fact we happy to have got the can kicked down the road - and it was kicked to December 2024.
There are a couple of things to point out here. Firstly, although most businesses were not affected by UKCA because of the ability to self certify, the whole thing has been a blooming nightmare for us.
Secondly, after a lot of getting nowhere it was only in early May of this year that we approached Kemi Badenoch asking for a CE extension and she in turn contacted Kevin Hollinrake as it fell under his ministerial portfolio. By end of May Kevin Hollinrake replied back to us and Alice Heales at Beis became involved.
UKCA must have sounded good to ministers at the time and I'm sure they had no idea of the ramifications, it was however a potential deathbed for a lot of firms and at the start I thought the best chance we had was an extension followed by another, and so on.
This news though is brilliant and I actually very much appreciate then fact that they have listened and seen sense.
[Post edited 1 Aug 2023 19:29]
Very short sighted of you. You need to stop cow-towing to EU bullies and start selling to the rest of the world. Enjoy a few trips to places like Australia and NZ at somebody else’s expense like Kemi Badenough.
Taking back control? on 22:04 - Aug 1 by Freddies_Ears
Hey, the govt have cut red tape and you can't say "thank you"...
Rule takers, not rule makers. That's our post-Brexit lot.
I receive government emails which alert me to Brexit developments, and this is how the measures are described in yesterday's press release.
"As part of the government’s drive for smarter regulation, the extension will cut business costs and time required to place products on the market and benefit consumers."
"The Government is tackling red tape, cutting burdens for business, and creating certainty for firms – we have listened to industry, and we are taking action to deliver."
"By extending CE marking use across the UK, firms can focus their time and money on creating jobs and growing the economy."
Very ironic that this climb-down involves effectively sticking with EU regulations, and avoiding going down the bureaucratic root of our own post-Brexit rules.
It's sovereignty, Jim, but not as we know it.
[Post edited 2 Aug 2023 9:07]
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Taking back control? on 09:09 - Aug 2 with 2519 views
Interesting insight, but I wonder how much government and industry time and money has been spent on something that sounded great from a sovereignty point of view, but appears to have been totally misconceived and divorced from reality.
[Post edited 2 Aug 2023 7:45]
Oh yes I don't disagree, it has been a complete waste of money - and I am sure similar things are going on with farmers, fishermen etc etc.
UKCA hasn't gone away though and it will continue to run alongside CE until legislation / standards change in UK but there is no desire in government to change these anytime soon.
It will be interesting what the EU say about this, if they wanted to be bloody minded (fair chance) then they could put pressure on notified bodies not to issue CE marks for non EU based importers. I suppose the easiest way around this would be to register an office in Ireland.
But with most of the Brexit fallout, even if it is unintended consequences, for me it's the days and weeks these things take up on ministers time. It is pretty obvious that as a country we cannot really effectively govern, mostly because ministers are trying to clear up what went on in 2016.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Taking back control? on 09:09 - Aug 2 by Lord_Lucan
Oh yes I don't disagree, it has been a complete waste of money - and I am sure similar things are going on with farmers, fishermen etc etc.
UKCA hasn't gone away though and it will continue to run alongside CE until legislation / standards change in UK but there is no desire in government to change these anytime soon.
It will be interesting what the EU say about this, if they wanted to be bloody minded (fair chance) then they could put pressure on notified bodies not to issue CE marks for non EU based importers. I suppose the easiest way around this would be to register an office in Ireland.
But with most of the Brexit fallout, even if it is unintended consequences, for me it's the days and weeks these things take up on ministers time. It is pretty obvious that as a country we cannot really effectively govern, mostly because ministers are trying to clear up what went on in 2016.
And just think how much civil servants' time has been taken up on Brexit these last seven years.
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Taking back control? on 09:21 - Aug 2 with 2482 views
Interesting insight, but I wonder how much government and industry time and money has been spent on something that sounded great from a sovereignty point of view, but appears to have been totally misconceived and divorced from reality.
[Post edited 2 Aug 2023 7:45]
Shedloads. Much like all the other wastes of time and money due to this farce of a project. Like not being prepared or acting quickly enough in the face of a once in a century pandemic, for example.
Taking back control? on 09:21 - Aug 2 by Swansea_Blue
Shedloads. Much like all the other wastes of time and money due to this farce of a project. Like not being prepared or acting quickly enough in the face of a once in a century pandemic, for example.
But at least the fishers have done well out of Brexit!
"The company says it became unviable after the slashing of the whitefish quota awarded to the UK in last year’s negotiations with Norway. Since Brexit, the UK now conducts these annual talks independently, rather than as part of the EU."
No doubt this has contributed to the very high price of fish in chip shops.
[Post edited 2 Aug 2023 9:42]
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Taking back control? on 09:43 - Aug 2 with 2419 views
Taking back control? on 09:21 - Aug 2 by Swansea_Blue
Shedloads. Much like all the other wastes of time and money due to this farce of a project. Like not being prepared or acting quickly enough in the face of a once in a century pandemic, for example.
You could see from the terrified looks of Johnson and Gove the day after Brexit that, apart from the rhetoric, there was no plan. And things didn't improve with the civil war in the Tory party, and headlines being more important than policy.
[Post edited 2 Aug 2023 9:46]
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Taking back control? on 10:27 - Aug 2 with 2364 views
Lol well yes if by Brexit bonus you mean something that we already had, and have simply managed to maintain the status quo of after months of cost, time, energy and uncertainty.
From my perspective Brexit is done, not likely to be undone any time soon. Hugely regrettable, but from the place we're at now this is something I'll consider a win (albeit not a Brexit bonus).
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Taking back control? on 11:29 - Aug 2 with 2317 views
Lol well yes if by Brexit bonus you mean something that we already had, and have simply managed to maintain the status quo of after months of cost, time, energy and uncertainty.
From my perspective Brexit is done, not likely to be undone any time soon. Hugely regrettable, but from the place we're at now this is something I'll consider a win (albeit not a Brexit bonus).
The legal position of no longer bing a member of the EU, yes
Done, certainly. The whole UK populace has been done. Sadly that process is far from being done.
UK exports of fruit to the EU have halved, as have exports of meat and fish to the EU.* These are markets the UK will struggle to get back once it is part of the EU once again. Suppliers have grown to fill those losses and workers have followed them.
You will not read anything in the rightwing press about this. No, they are busy telling the thickos that brexit has not failed, as err...... it has not been implemented yet.
So what is causing these losses in trade ? Why are hauliers pointing out the 4m extra forms needed, every week. Why are exporters pointing out the extra cost and delay of complying with regulation now required since the UK is not a member of the EU ?
The UK has not implemented this 'control our borders' as claimed. Imports are still allowed in unchecked. Too costly admitted the Stick-Insect (June 23)
However the EU has imposed checks on UK goods, and now UK travellers (Nov 23)+. It has also gained from the considerable amount of UK business that has shifted across the channel.
While it is easy to laugh at this thicko, it should be borne in mind that her and other ukip liars were peddling the myth that rules and basic common sense could be ignored, as the la la land of brexit would over ride everything.
In this case the UK could ignore International Law, carry on as before with all the benefits of being an EU member, because Johnson had told her so.
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Taking back control? on 12:12 - Aug 2 with 2285 views
Lol well yes if by Brexit bonus you mean something that we already had, and have simply managed to maintain the status quo of after months of cost, time, energy and uncertainty.
From my perspective Brexit is done, not likely to be undone any time soon. Hugely regrettable, but from the place we're at now this is something I'll consider a win (albeit not a Brexit bonus).
I think I am in line with you.
I didn't want Brexit but I accept it's done and we need to move on, I have though always thought that it would take almost a generation to sort it all out and I see no reason to change my opinion.
As a country though we really need to move on and get things going again, all the continued arguments and crap that is spouted everywhere you turn leaves me stone cold.
I actually think it's all a bit pathetic to say the very least.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Taking back control? on 12:12 - Aug 2 by Lord_Lucan
I think I am in line with you.
I didn't want Brexit but I accept it's done and we need to move on, I have though always thought that it would take almost a generation to sort it all out and I see no reason to change my opinion.
As a country though we really need to move on and get things going again, all the continued arguments and crap that is spouted everywhere you turn leaves me stone cold.
I actually think it's all a bit pathetic to say the very least.
I'm bored with all the discussion, finger pointing, what ifs and all the rest of it. We can dwell on it and cry about it which achieves the square root of f all, or as a business owner I can forge ahead with the new cards I've been dealt (albeit not ones I wanted). That's a better use of my time and energy.
I was once told you can't influence the direction of the wind, but you can adjust your sail.
1
Taking back control? on 13:23 - Aug 2 with 2199 views
I'm bored with all the discussion, finger pointing, what ifs and all the rest of it. We can dwell on it and cry about it which achieves the square root of f all, or as a business owner I can forge ahead with the new cards I've been dealt (albeit not ones I wanted). That's a better use of my time and energy.
I was once told you can't influence the direction of the wind, but you can adjust your sail.
100% this, move on or be a big girls blouse.
Just had an email from Institute of Export suggesting that medical devices and construction services are excluded from CE extension.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
I'm bored with all the discussion, finger pointing, what ifs and all the rest of it. We can dwell on it and cry about it which achieves the square root of f all, or as a business owner I can forge ahead with the new cards I've been dealt (albeit not ones I wanted). That's a better use of my time and energy.
I was once told you can't influence the direction of the wind, but you can adjust your sail.
There is of course a simple solution, don't read the thread and ignore the incessant whining from Brexiters.
I should imagine like many righties it distresses you that you were conned by some real toffs.
[Post edited 2 Aug 2023 13:52]
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Taking back control? on 13:56 - Aug 2 with 2163 views
All that has been said is that the UK will stick with EU safety mark. Perhaps you could post that email up on here so we can see what they are saying.
just the words will do.
From: Department for Business and Trade and Kevin Hollinrake MP
Business department announces indefinite CE mark recognition beyond 2024 deadline As part of the government’s drive for smarter regulation, the extension will cut business costs and time required to place products on the market and benefit consumers Follows extensive engagement with industry, delivering on a key ask from businesses to ease burdens and boost growth for the UK economy The Department for Business and Trade has today announced an indefinite extension to the use of CE marking for UK businesses.
This comes as part of a wider package of smarter regulations designed to ease business burdens and help grow the economy by cutting barriers and red tape. Following extensive engagement with industry, British firms will be able to continue the use of CE marking alongside UKCA.
The Business Secretary acted urgently on this issue, to prevent a cliff-edge moment in December 2024 when UKCA was set for entry. This intervention will ensure businesses no longer face uncertainty over the regulations and can cut back on unnecessary costs freeing them up to focus on innovation and growth.
Business Minister Kevin Hollinrake said: The Government is tackling red tape, cutting burdens for business, and creating certainty for firms – we have listened to industry, and we are taking action to deliver.
By extending CE marking use across the UK, firms can focus their time and money on creating jobs and growing the economy.
Tina McKenzie, Policy Chair of the Federation of Small Businesses (FSB) said: It’s welcome to see the continued recognition of CE marked products. This will allow time for small firms to adjust to the UKCA marking system and focus on growing their business both at home and overseas.
Stephen Phipson, CEO of Make UK, the manufacturers’ organisation said: This is a pragmatic and common sense decision that manufacturers will very much welcome and support. This announcement will help safeguard the competitiveness of manufacturers and aid the UK as a destination for investment.
It should bring more confidence about doing business in the UK and recognises the need to work with the reality of doing business. Make UK has worked extensively with UK Government pushing hard for this decision and we are pleased the ongoing engagement has delivered this positive outcome.
The extension will provide businesses with flexibility and choice to use either the UKCA or CE approach to sell products in Great Britain.
Taking back control? on 12:12 - Aug 2 by Lord_Lucan
I think I am in line with you.
I didn't want Brexit but I accept it's done and we need to move on, I have though always thought that it would take almost a generation to sort it all out and I see no reason to change my opinion.
As a country though we really need to move on and get things going again, all the continued arguments and crap that is spouted everywhere you turn leaves me stone cold.
I actually think it's all a bit pathetic to say the very least.
I think I'm in line with you both.
I didn't want Brexit but accepted the vote, and thought Theresa May's deal was the best we were going to get.
As it was the remain lobby were not happy with that, and nor were the ERG, so we ended up with the hardest Brexit possible.
Now that Brexit has ceased to be an issue which those on the right bang on about, it does seem that the Government are starting to be a bit more pragmatic, and maybe Labour will be too if they get elected.
I suppose my OP post was mainly pointing out the irony of the right wing press completely keeping their head down these days when the extreme version of Brexit they championed is shown to be a nonsense.
[Post edited 2 Aug 2023 16:42]
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Taking back control? on 18:09 - Aug 2 with 1958 views
I didn't want Brexit but accepted the vote, and thought Theresa May's deal was the best we were going to get.
As it was the remain lobby were not happy with that, and nor were the ERG, so we ended up with the hardest Brexit possible.
Now that Brexit has ceased to be an issue which those on the right bang on about, it does seem that the Government are starting to be a bit more pragmatic, and maybe Labour will be too if they get elected.
I suppose my OP post was mainly pointing out the irony of the right wing press completely keeping their head down these days when the extreme version of Brexit they championed is shown to be a nonsense.
[Post edited 2 Aug 2023 16:42]
No. that is incorrect.
We ended up with Brexit. There is a never was a soft, light, user-friendly or any other 'type' of brexit.Just as there is not any part pregnancy.
You are either in or out.It is just the thickos whinging because what they were told would happen has happened, with worse to come.
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