| The next few days... 07:28 - Aug 29 with 3504 views | tractorboy1978 |
Are going to be a free for all for the same players. Seems to be a decent sized pool of players that are obviously heading out on loan to the Championship (Cannon, Panzo, O'Brien etc).
I really hope we have a couple of permanents up our sleeve and can avoid what could be a bit of a lottery as the week goes on. |  | | |  |
| The next few days... on 07:53 - Aug 29 with 3397 views | Steve_M |
Yes, definite echoes of this time last year at the moment. All the talk and the hype from the club and we've really not added much to the squad at the end of last season. Yes, that was a very good set up for League 1 but, as we saw on Saturday, there's far more quality and far more intensity in this division. |  |
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| The next few days... on 08:05 - Aug 29 with 3318 views | Mullet |
It's also hard to know how far this current crop takes us. Based on the start we're going to have a blinding season but there already seems to be some negativity on the assumption we have to sign players.
Perhaps us, like the club, thought we'd be higher up the pecking order or maybe the Saudi effect has really caused bigger ripples than anticipated?
Someone in today or tomorrow and the final day, plus some exits might mean a third is needed if Hladky has decided he wants out now he's had a taste of being number 1. |  |
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| The next few days... on 08:11 - Aug 29 with 3275 views | Herbivore |
I think getting permanents done is tricky. Prem clubs can afford to stockpile players and loan them out almost indefinitely in the hope they either make it or do well enough to command them a bigger fee. Broadhead was at Everton until the age of 24, I know they are one of the worst for it, but there does seem to be a reluctance from Prem sides to let the kind of players we would want leave permanently, unless it's for absolutely silly money. We're fishing in a much tougher pond and there's a lot more people trying to catch the same fish. I'm sure the club anticipated that would be the case to some extent but I imagine they're also slightly surprised by just how difficult it's been to get deals done. I'd be surprised to see anymore permanent deals at this point. [Post edited 29 Aug 2023 8:19]
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| The next few days... on 08:18 - Aug 29 with 3220 views | ITFC_Forever |
Surely it’s going to be the complete opposite and it will be very expensive for all if everyone starts getting into bidding wars for the same players? |  |
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| The next few days... on 08:20 - Aug 29 with 3209 views | Guthrum |
| The next few days... on 08:05 - Aug 29 by Mullet |
It's also hard to know how far this current crop takes us. Based on the start we're going to have a blinding season but there already seems to be some negativity on the assumption we have to sign players.
Perhaps us, like the club, thought we'd be higher up the pecking order or maybe the Saudi effect has really caused bigger ripples than anticipated?
Someone in today or tomorrow and the final day, plus some exits might mean a third is needed if Hladky has decided he wants out now he's had a taste of being number 1. |
It's interesting how assumptions have changed over the last few weeks.
Before the first game kicked off, people assumed we would need signings just to survive in the division.
Three League matches in, that question seemed to have been answered.
However, difficult periods during those games and the subsequent loss to Leeds have now got people wanting signings again, not with a view to staying up, but of remaining at the top end of the Championship and challenging for promotion.
I agree. Fees have perhaps been higher than expected, plus our upward trajectory and good young manager weighs less than established Champ/recent Prem status and having pushed for the play-offs last season. Our budget is decent, but can't compete with parachute money. Nor have we been willing (or able) to sell players for big fees. Ashton is evidently persuasive, but we are only a freshly-promoted club with no current pedigree at this level. |  |
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| The next few days... on 08:25 - Aug 29 with 3165 views | Guthrum |
| The next few days... on 08:11 - Aug 29 by Herbivore |
I think getting permanents done is tricky. Prem clubs can afford to stockpile players and loan them out almost indefinitely in the hope they either make it or do well enough to command them a bigger fee. Broadhead was at Everton until the age of 24, I know they are one of the worst for it, but there does seem to be a reluctance from Prem sides to let the kind of players we would want leave permanently, unless it's for absolutely silly money. We're fishing in a much tougher pond and there's a lot more people trying to catch the same fish. I'm sure the club anticipated that would be the case to some extent but I imagine they're also slightly surprised by just how difficult it's been to get deals done. I'd be surprised to see anymore permanent deals at this point. [Post edited 29 Aug 2023 8:19]
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The thing which might get a result is if we've been working on a deal for a long time and their current club decides to go ahead this window rather than letting it lie for another four months (with pestering phone calls from Ashton every few days). | |
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| The next few days... on 08:26 - Aug 29 with 3157 views | PioneerBlue |
I don’t get the club hype narrative. I’ve never been led to expect us to sign big bucks players nor that many other than by what fans have said all summer.
I did expect 3 but up to 5. I did expect they would be championship ready. I guess we are 2 short of my expectations having secured Williams, Luongo, Taylor, Huch, and Hirst. With Hirst and Luongo bringing about parity for the final XI that took us to promotion.
For me this window has been about transition, provide a platform, secure enough talent to allow the players to feel they have championship capable players around them, then work through identifying exactly what we need to get out of the division in the next window and into next summer.
All about progress. Be concerned when the progress stops not before.
Having seen the window play out I do think perhaps everyone has been surprised by the valuations that parachute clubs are paying, perhaps knock on from Saudi money, therefore distorting the Championship market early doors. Let’s see how the final days go. | |
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| The next few days... on 08:28 - Aug 29 with 3135 views | Stewart27 |
| The next few days... on 08:20 - Aug 29 by Guthrum |
It's interesting how assumptions have changed over the last few weeks.
Before the first game kicked off, people assumed we would need signings just to survive in the division.
Three League matches in, that question seemed to have been answered.
However, difficult periods during those games and the subsequent loss to Leeds have now got people wanting signings again, not with a view to staying up, but of remaining at the top end of the Championship and challenging for promotion.
I agree. Fees have perhaps been higher than expected, plus our upward trajectory and good young manager weighs less than established Champ/recent Prem status and having pushed for the play-offs last season. Our budget is decent, but can't compete with parachute money. Nor have we been willing (or able) to sell players for big fees. Ashton is evidently persuasive, but we are only a freshly-promoted club with no current pedigree at this level. |
Very much so.
I couldn’t give a t0ss if we didn’t sign anybody. Just want that window closed now so we can focus on the season. | | | |
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| The next few days... on 08:30 - Aug 29 with 3126 views | Steve_M |
| The next few days... on 08:20 - Aug 29 by Guthrum |
It's interesting how assumptions have changed over the last few weeks.
Before the first game kicked off, people assumed we would need signings just to survive in the division.
Three League matches in, that question seemed to have been answered.
However, difficult periods during those games and the subsequent loss to Leeds have now got people wanting signings again, not with a view to staying up, but of remaining at the top end of the Championship and challenging for promotion.
I agree. Fees have perhaps been higher than expected, plus our upward trajectory and good young manager weighs less than established Champ/recent Prem status and having pushed for the play-offs last season. Our budget is decent, but can't compete with parachute money. Nor have we been willing (or able) to sell players for big fees. Ashton is evidently persuasive, but we are only a freshly-promoted club with no current pedigree at this level. |
TBH I think it's the noise that was coming out of the club about expectations, both directly and indirectly, that has increased expectations not so much to stay up but to progress towards the top six.
Aside from that, there's a distinct lack of Championship experience at central defence and it looks already that Freddie, good as he was last season, doesn't have the skillset to play as a lone forward in this division. That's two signings we would clearly have wanted to make earlier in the Summer and haven't managed to yet. | |
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| The next few days... on 08:41 - Aug 29 with 3010 views | Sharkey |
My impression is that the whole crazy game of musical chairs is starting later than ever, right through the leagues. 'X can go as soon as we get Y" in. And then at another club, 'X has arrived so now Z' can go', and so on. Maybe it's all done later now, because the managers, supervising training or traveling to an away game, aren't the actual ones on the phone.
Incidentally, i wouldn't be surprised if Colchester are asking about Baggott on loan to Christmas. Their young on-loan (Southampton) central defender got a bad ankle injury on Saturday. Of course Town might be looking for higher things for Baggott, if he's to go out at all, but might also take the view that it's better to keep him in the district, and at a club that's shown it's happy to field very young players regularly. [Post edited 29 Aug 2023 9:00]
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| The next few days... on 08:47 - Aug 29 with 2965 views | tractorboy1978 |
| The next few days... on 08:20 - Aug 29 by Guthrum |
It's interesting how assumptions have changed over the last few weeks.
Before the first game kicked off, people assumed we would need signings just to survive in the division.
Three League matches in, that question seemed to have been answered.
However, difficult periods during those games and the subsequent loss to Leeds have now got people wanting signings again, not with a view to staying up, but of remaining at the top end of the Championship and challenging for promotion.
I agree. Fees have perhaps been higher than expected, plus our upward trajectory and good young manager weighs less than established Champ/recent Prem status and having pushed for the play-offs last season. Our budget is decent, but can't compete with parachute money. Nor have we been willing (or able) to sell players for big fees. Ashton is evidently persuasive, but we are only a freshly-promoted club with no current pedigree at this level. |
Other than the usual overly negative suspects, I don't think I saw anyone say we needed signings just to survive.
My position has always been we needed 2/3 more from here to really kick on this season. That has been publicly acknowledged by Ashton and McKenna too. | | | |
| The next few days... on 08:48 - Aug 29 with 2956 views | ArnieM |
| The next few days... on 08:26 - Aug 29 by PioneerBlue |
I don’t get the club hype narrative. I’ve never been led to expect us to sign big bucks players nor that many other than by what fans have said all summer.
I did expect 3 but up to 5. I did expect they would be championship ready. I guess we are 2 short of my expectations having secured Williams, Luongo, Taylor, Huch, and Hirst. With Hirst and Luongo bringing about parity for the final XI that took us to promotion.
For me this window has been about transition, provide a platform, secure enough talent to allow the players to feel they have championship capable players around them, then work through identifying exactly what we need to get out of the division in the next window and into next summer.
All about progress. Be concerned when the progress stops not before.
Having seen the window play out I do think perhaps everyone has been surprised by the valuations that parachute clubs are paying, perhaps knock on from Saudi money, therefore distorting the Championship market early doors. Let’s see how the final days go. |
I don’t think it’s Saudi money distorting this league, but the continuance of Sky money ( parachute money for failure). Saturdays opponents perfectly embodies this fact. They had a £70m front line. They signed an inflated valuation of £10m for a “ Championship” player. They are I believe now signing another player for £5m. Similar events have happened at Leicester this season. This is why it causes an uneven playing field in this division. We ( despite our owners backing ) are not “allowed” to compete financially even if we wanted to. Established, non owned, Championship clubs haven’t got a hope of competing financially with these failed PL clubs. This is why we struggled in the McCarthy era, although we were owned by Evans, he couldn’t really compete financially and he knew it and stopped chucking good money after bad. Parachute money is the big criminal in the game today. If these clubs were given these vast sums of money, transfer fees would drop almost overnight. It’s up to relegated clubs to self regulate regarding finances just as you if I would do in real life. They need to be more responsible instead of attempting to beat the odds in this ridiculous “ chasing the PL dream”, which in my view is the biggest con going and benefits only the big 5 clubs.
Disclaimer: this is just my opinion ok . |  |
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| The next few days... on 08:51 - Aug 29 with 2945 views | tractorboy1978 |
| The next few days... on 08:18 - Aug 29 by ITFC_Forever |
Surely it’s going to be the complete opposite and it will be very expensive for all if everyone starts getting into bidding wars for the same players? |
That's what these Premier League clubs want and why some of these deals have been left until the last knockings of the window. You know clubs will be panicking this week and paying what is required to get deals done. Ashton might claim we won't 'overpay' but can bet your bottom dollar we will have a different outlook if things aren't going to plan in the next day or two. [Post edited 29 Aug 2023 8:52]
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| The next few days... on 08:52 - Aug 29 with 2938 views | Herbivore |
| The next few days... on 08:25 - Aug 29 by Guthrum |
The thing which might get a result is if we've been working on a deal for a long time and their current club decides to go ahead this window rather than letting it lie for another four months (with pestering phone calls from Ashton every few days). |
Absolutely. We don't know what's gone on behind closed doors and it's possible we have some deals ready to go that are just waiting for a final thumbs up, possibly once the selling team has signed someone themselves. That's certainly possible. | |
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| The next few days... on 08:54 - Aug 29 with 2927 views | PioneerBlue |
| The next few days... on 08:48 - Aug 29 by ArnieM |
I don’t think it’s Saudi money distorting this league, but the continuance of Sky money ( parachute money for failure). Saturdays opponents perfectly embodies this fact. They had a £70m front line. They signed an inflated valuation of £10m for a “ Championship” player. They are I believe now signing another player for £5m. Similar events have happened at Leicester this season. This is why it causes an uneven playing field in this division. We ( despite our owners backing ) are not “allowed” to compete financially even if we wanted to. Established, non owned, Championship clubs haven’t got a hope of competing financially with these failed PL clubs. This is why we struggled in the McCarthy era, although we were owned by Evans, he couldn’t really compete financially and he knew it and stopped chucking good money after bad. Parachute money is the big criminal in the game today. If these clubs were given these vast sums of money, transfer fees would drop almost overnight. It’s up to relegated clubs to self regulate regarding finances just as you if I would do in real life. They need to be more responsible instead of attempting to beat the odds in this ridiculous “ chasing the PL dream”, which in my view is the biggest con going and benefits only the big 5 clubs.
Disclaimer: this is just my opinion ok . |
I don’t disagree. I only mention Saudi money because I don’t know exactly which external influences are impacting valuations the most! I’m no fan of the parachute payments, it’s a massive distortion of the championship competition. | |
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| The next few days... on 09:02 - Aug 29 with 2875 views | Herbivore |
| The next few days... on 08:48 - Aug 29 by ArnieM |
I don’t think it’s Saudi money distorting this league, but the continuance of Sky money ( parachute money for failure). Saturdays opponents perfectly embodies this fact. They had a £70m front line. They signed an inflated valuation of £10m for a “ Championship” player. They are I believe now signing another player for £5m. Similar events have happened at Leicester this season. This is why it causes an uneven playing field in this division. We ( despite our owners backing ) are not “allowed” to compete financially even if we wanted to. Established, non owned, Championship clubs haven’t got a hope of competing financially with these failed PL clubs. This is why we struggled in the McCarthy era, although we were owned by Evans, he couldn’t really compete financially and he knew it and stopped chucking good money after bad. Parachute money is the big criminal in the game today. If these clubs were given these vast sums of money, transfer fees would drop almost overnight. It’s up to relegated clubs to self regulate regarding finances just as you if I would do in real life. They need to be more responsible instead of attempting to beat the odds in this ridiculous “ chasing the PL dream”, which in my view is the biggest con going and benefits only the big 5 clubs.
Disclaimer: this is just my opinion ok . |
You're absolutely right about parachute payments massively distorting things and creating an uneven playing field. I understand why they were brought in, it was a response to the likes of ourselves and Leicester going into administration the year after relegation because of the financial cliff edge. I don't disagree with the principle, but the extent of the payments has really got out of control. Teams can come down and end up strengthening, and that doesn't feel right. The parachute payments are so substantial that if they do let some of their better players go, they can hold out for top dollar which then gives them serious money to spend on a promotion push. The FFP rules make it impossible for sides without parachute payments to even come close to competing with those that have them. | |
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| The next few days... on 09:02 - Aug 29 with 2870 views | ArnieM |
| The next few days... on 08:54 - Aug 29 by PioneerBlue |
I don’t disagree. I only mention Saudi money because I don’t know exactly which external influences are impacting valuations the most! I’m no fan of the parachute payments, it’s a massive distortion of the championship competition. |
I think if the Saudi situation continues it ultimately will affect clubs lower down the pyramid, but gif now I think it’s likely to affect mostly clubs and players at the higher end.
Btw I see scum have just rejected a £4m bid from Leeds for one of their players. I do wonder if Sargents ankle injury is as bad as they say it is , and an attempt like us ( re Walton) just an effort to remove that player from transfer window pressures? | |
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| The next few days... on 09:06 - Aug 29 with 2855 views | Herbivore |
| The next few days... on 08:54 - Aug 29 by PioneerBlue |
I don’t disagree. I only mention Saudi money because I don’t know exactly which external influences are impacting valuations the most! I’m no fan of the parachute payments, it’s a massive distortion of the championship competition. |
I think it's more that three (reasonably) established Prem sides have come down so that have strength in depth, lots of saleable assets, and multiple years of parachute payments to cushion them. Norwich couldn't do what Leeds, Southampton, and Leicester have managed to do. With our notorious luck, we've also come into the Championship at a time when a few of the midtable nothing sides have suddenly got some investment and are spending decent money in a bid to get up. As a League 1 side last season we could out compete most Championship sides in the transfer market, a year later we're struggling. | |
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| The next few days... on 09:15 - Aug 29 with 2778 views | Sharkey |
| The next few days... on 09:02 - Aug 29 by Herbivore |
You're absolutely right about parachute payments massively distorting things and creating an uneven playing field. I understand why they were brought in, it was a response to the likes of ourselves and Leicester going into administration the year after relegation because of the financial cliff edge. I don't disagree with the principle, but the extent of the payments has really got out of control. Teams can come down and end up strengthening, and that doesn't feel right. The parachute payments are so substantial that if they do let some of their better players go, they can hold out for top dollar which then gives them serious money to spend on a promotion push. The FFP rules make it impossible for sides without parachute payments to even come close to competing with those that have them. |
"Teams can come down and end up strengthening". Genuine question (I don't really follow the PL) - have any of the relegated three actually bought for more than they've sold for? | | | |
| The next few days... on 09:17 - Aug 29 with 2759 views | Guthrum |
| The next few days... on 08:48 - Aug 29 by ArnieM |
I don’t think it’s Saudi money distorting this league, but the continuance of Sky money ( parachute money for failure). Saturdays opponents perfectly embodies this fact. They had a £70m front line. They signed an inflated valuation of £10m for a “ Championship” player. They are I believe now signing another player for £5m. Similar events have happened at Leicester this season. This is why it causes an uneven playing field in this division. We ( despite our owners backing ) are not “allowed” to compete financially even if we wanted to. Established, non owned, Championship clubs haven’t got a hope of competing financially with these failed PL clubs. This is why we struggled in the McCarthy era, although we were owned by Evans, he couldn’t really compete financially and he knew it and stopped chucking good money after bad. Parachute money is the big criminal in the game today. If these clubs were given these vast sums of money, transfer fees would drop almost overnight. It’s up to relegated clubs to self regulate regarding finances just as you if I would do in real life. They need to be more responsible instead of attempting to beat the odds in this ridiculous “ chasing the PL dream”, which in my view is the biggest con going and benefits only the big 5 clubs.
Disclaimer: this is just my opinion ok . |
It's my opinion on the subject also.
Especially as the Prem are otherwise always reluctant about passing on their loot to lower divisions, at least without trying to extract concessions.
The situation isn't going to change soon, because the decision is made by the Prem clubs, many of whom are constantly at risk of going down themselves. | |
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| The next few days... on 09:42 - Aug 29 with 2618 views | Herbivore |
| The next few days... on 09:15 - Aug 29 by Sharkey |
"Teams can come down and end up strengthening". Genuine question (I don't really follow the PL) - have any of the relegated three actually bought for more than they've sold for? |
You don't need to have a net spend to end up strengthening. They can sell one asset, often a youngster whose value is more about potential than anything (see Lavia at Saints), and that gives them money to sign players who will improve them in the here and now and give them a better chance of going straight back up. | |
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| The next few days... on 10:22 - Aug 29 with 2465 views | ArnieM |
| The next few days... on 09:06 - Aug 29 by Herbivore |
I think it's more that three (reasonably) established Prem sides have come down so that have strength in depth, lots of saleable assets, and multiple years of parachute payments to cushion them. Norwich couldn't do what Leeds, Southampton, and Leicester have managed to do. With our notorious luck, we've also come into the Championship at a time when a few of the midtable nothing sides have suddenly got some investment and are spending decent money in a bid to get up. As a League 1 side last season we could out compete most Championship sides in the transfer market, a year later we're struggling. |
Isn’t it just typical of our timing . And when you compare our “ luck” to that shower of s*** up the A140 who seem to come up smelling of rose every time they fall into the cess pit. You just have to wonder what we have to do to hit it at the tight time in the game really don’t you! | |
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| The next few days... on 10:26 - Aug 29 with 2447 views | ArnieM |
| The next few days... on 09:42 - Aug 29 by Herbivore |
You don't need to have a net spend to end up strengthening. They can sell one asset, often a youngster whose value is more about potential than anything (see Lavia at Saints), and that gives them money to sign players who will improve them in the here and now and give them a better chance of going straight back up. |
I know you can never say “ never” ( will happen here), but it is business all said and done, and maybe this Davis rumour has some legs in it . I hope it doesn’t. But who else have we got that we would be prepared to sell for decent ( meaningful) money. The club have sacrificed their best players in the past and used the money to push on. But we haven’t done that for decade really now. Maybe we are about to see a couple of shock moves both ways in the next 3 days. It wouldn’t surprise me…… | |
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| The next few days... on 13:52 - Aug 29 with 2119 views | Vegtablue |
| The next few days... on 08:47 - Aug 29 by tractorboy1978 |
Other than the usual overly negative suspects, I don't think I saw anyone say we needed signings just to survive.
My position has always been we needed 2/3 more from here to really kick on this season. That has been publicly acknowledged by Ashton and McKenna too. |
Yes the mood among the less confident was that our squad was good enough to survive without the return of Hirst and Luongo, then good enough for the middle with the band back and Jack. A genuine tilt at promotion, without the reinforcements McKenna and co. want? This is what's stimulated debate. | | | |
| The next few days... on 07:43 - Aug 31 with 1679 views | tractorboy1978 |
Very little movement again yesterday. The next couple of days are going to be mad aren't they! Premier League clubs leaving it as late as possible to push up loan fees as clubs get more desperate I imagine. | | | |
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