| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. 08:55 - Jun 5 with 2346 views | Guthrum |
Bar English clubs from being owned by nation state investment entities. Private individuals/consortia only.
Still a vast amount of wealth for the sport to spend, but not the almost unlimited resources of a Gulf oil country - combined with the anti-democratic inclinations of their rulers. |  |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:00 - Jun 5 with 2291 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Newcastle found a way around that.
Chelsea proved you don't have to be owned by a nation state to out spend everyone. |  |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:02 - Jun 5 with 2271 views | GeoffSentence |
I wonder if that is the sort of thing that the proposed football regulator would have looked at.
We'll probably have a long time to wait to find out now as that is one of the bits of legislation lost to the general eletion and if labour win it they will probably have a lot more pressing problems to deal with. |  |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:04 - Jun 5 with 2263 views | Guthrum |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:00 - Jun 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Newcastle found a way around that.
Chelsea proved you don't have to be owned by a nation state to out spend everyone. |
And it's not Newcastle now creating a stink about being allowed to break the rules on sponsorship from related entities.
Out-spending everyone else isn't the issue, if they have the legitimate money. It's the desire to destroy the regulatory system which keeps that within some kind of bounds. | |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:07 - Jun 5 with 2226 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:04 - Jun 5 by Guthrum |
And it's not Newcastle now creating a stink about being allowed to break the rules on sponsorship from related entities.
Out-spending everyone else isn't the issue, if they have the legitimate money. It's the desire to destroy the regulatory system which keeps that within some kind of bounds. |
I didn't suggest it was Newcastle, it was just an example of a nation state owned club pretending to not be owned by a nation state, hence getting around your proposals.
It is about out spending everyone, that's the root of all the issues with City. Money and success. That's what has got us to this point. You did mention vast resources and ability to spend. [Post edited 5 Jun 2024 9:08]
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:11 - Jun 5 with 2160 views | GeoffSentence |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:04 - Jun 5 by Guthrum |
And it's not Newcastle now creating a stink about being allowed to break the rules on sponsorship from related entities.
Out-spending everyone else isn't the issue, if they have the legitimate money. It's the desire to destroy the regulatory system which keeps that within some kind of bounds. |
I believe Newcastle are supporting City's legal bid though | |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:16 - Jun 5 with 2136 views | davblue |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:04 - Jun 5 by Guthrum |
And it's not Newcastle now creating a stink about being allowed to break the rules on sponsorship from related entities.
Out-spending everyone else isn't the issue, if they have the legitimate money. It's the desire to destroy the regulatory system which keeps that within some kind of bounds. |
The premier league feels like it's teetering on the edge of becoming a league which everyone knows who's going to win it unless they have a dreadful season. Pep is one of the greats, so maybe when he leaves the league becomes more spread out with the winners.
This is why i can't really understand why people want Man United to fail, they are genuinely under the current rules one of the clubs who can compete with City if they get their house in order. Of course if City have carte Blanche to spend what ever they want then it's going to be City and Newcastle who will destroy the premier league but could also destroy European champions league. |  | | |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:19 - Jun 5 with 2102 views | homer_123 |
Not a bad shout. Though, of course, that means two outcomes:
1. We'll begin to struggle to compete at a European level (though not a given)
2. We'll fast track the Euro Super League |  |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:19 - Jun 5 with 2100 views | Guthrum |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:07 - Jun 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I didn't suggest it was Newcastle, it was just an example of a nation state owned club pretending to not be owned by a nation state, hence getting around your proposals.
It is about out spending everyone, that's the root of all the issues with City. Money and success. That's what has got us to this point. You did mention vast resources and ability to spend. [Post edited 5 Jun 2024 9:08]
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I know you didn't. My point is more that having to maintain that fig-leaf structure prevents them from nakedly pushing to open the flood-gates. Places some shackles on in order not to break the fiction. Being pragmatic, regulation is more a brake, a deterrant, than an absolute barrier.
The unregulated spending power of a Gulf oil state will far out-do a Chelsea or what ManC have done. They have the power to outbid anyone (other than a similarly wealthy country) in the transfer market or on wages, every single time. Next they'll push for bigger squads, so they can buy more of the best players and use them. Or the removal of transfer windows, so they can hire who they want, when they want. | |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:20 - Jun 5 with 2070 views | Guthrum |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:11 - Jun 5 by GeoffSentence |
I believe Newcastle are supporting City's legal bid though |
Ah, hadn't read that. | |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:23 - Jun 5 with 2057 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:19 - Jun 5 by Guthrum |
I know you didn't. My point is more that having to maintain that fig-leaf structure prevents them from nakedly pushing to open the flood-gates. Places some shackles on in order not to break the fiction. Being pragmatic, regulation is more a brake, a deterrant, than an absolute barrier.
The unregulated spending power of a Gulf oil state will far out-do a Chelsea or what ManC have done. They have the power to outbid anyone (other than a similarly wealthy country) in the transfer market or on wages, every single time. Next they'll push for bigger squads, so they can buy more of the best players and use them. Or the removal of transfer windows, so they can hire who they want, when they want. |
Any new owners will just do a Newcastle and disguise the state ownership.
Of course the nation state owned model started with Chelsea bavk in 2004.
I see the issue, but I'm not sure there's a workable solution.
I must admit, after the McKenna experience I'm not sure I'm relishing the Premier League. For us fans, last year may have been our peak. | |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:28 - Jun 5 with 2020 views | GeoffSentence |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:20 - Jun 5 by Guthrum |
Ah, hadn't read that. |
I can't find the source I read it in now, but I believe they will be providing a witness statement in support of City.
Unless I dreamt it. Don't take it as gospel just yet. | |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:30 - Jun 5 with 2012 views | Guthrum |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:23 - Jun 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Any new owners will just do a Newcastle and disguise the state ownership.
Of course the nation state owned model started with Chelsea bavk in 2004.
I see the issue, but I'm not sure there's a workable solution.
I must admit, after the McKenna experience I'm not sure I'm relishing the Premier League. For us fans, last year may have been our peak. |
I'm still concerned that if ManU decide to sack Ten Hag and make an offer to McKenna, he may go. The new contract just giving us better compensation.
At least ITFC is going into this with a healthy financial situation, lots of investment for the infrastructure requirements, plus a good turnover from fans, merch and TV. Nowhere close to competing with the big boys, but able to spend what's likely to be needed without endangering the club. | |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:32 - Jun 5 with 1992 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:30 - Jun 5 by Guthrum |
I'm still concerned that if ManU decide to sack Ten Hag and make an offer to McKenna, he may go. The new contract just giving us better compensation.
At least ITFC is going into this with a healthy financial situation, lots of investment for the infrastructure requirements, plus a good turnover from fans, merch and TV. Nowhere close to competing with the big boys, but able to spend what's likely to be needed without endangering the club. |
If KM goes, he goes. I'm kind of over that now.
I wouldn't begrudge him a move to Utd.
Agreed, if managed sensibly the Prem should but us on a secure financial footing. So long as we don't waste it. | |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 10:41 - Jun 5 with 1815 views | homer_123 |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:23 - Jun 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Any new owners will just do a Newcastle and disguise the state ownership.
Of course the nation state owned model started with Chelsea bavk in 2004.
I see the issue, but I'm not sure there's a workable solution.
I must admit, after the McKenna experience I'm not sure I'm relishing the Premier League. For us fans, last year may have been our peak. |
So, I'd love to see us promoted, don't get me wrong. by homer_123 26 Feb 2024 11:24But I've been wondering if I would enjoy watching us as much in the Prem. Yes, we'll get to watch some world class players at PR again but I have this nagging, niggly feeling that it won't be anywhere near as much fun as watching us over the last couple of years under KM.
The heart and soul of the Club was slowly and surely extracted from the Club under Evans stewardship. The link to the fans became tenuous at best. The community and family that the Club once was, lost as Evans had little to no interest after a few years of ownership.
Lack of investment off the pitch contributing as much as the lack of investment in the playing side of things.
Yes, we are now owned by an American pension fund but since Ashton et al came in the Club has rapidly and effectively built back up those links to it's fanbase, to the people that have long supported and followed the Club. Add to this the work KM and the team have done on the pitch is nothing short of miraculous.
And here's the thing - my nagging feeling is the squad will change significantly when we go up - these players have delivered so much and watching them, week in and week out, improve both individually and collectively is quite a sight but I don't think this team can really compete at that top level without major changes. It's not a slight on them or me being negative, it is just what it is.
I have enjoyed, so much, watching this group of players play beyond what, I am sure, even they believed they were capable of doing. KM and team have not just developed their footballing and decision making abilities but instilled an ethic, an approach if you will, to football that is something to admire.
I fear it won't be the same as the core won't stay the same when we go up. I rather lament that thought.
I've been lucky enough to watch us under Robson, Lyall, Burley and Royle as well as others. Given where we were not just on the pitch but what had happened to us off it. This group of players and what they have done with the help of Ashton, KM and the team deserves to go down in ITFC lore.
We are simply a joy to watch as we go about our business. That trepidation, excitement and nervous energy you feel on the way to ground, for me at least, is well and truly back.
Don't get me wrong, I am sure in the Prem it will be similar but I don't think it will be the same and right now, I don't want that feeling to change.
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 10:48 - Jun 5 with 1779 views | Basuco |
What crisis? The big clubs do want anyone else interfering with their cartel of always finishing in the top 4, I think it is good that Man City came in and took English football to the next level. Sky created a league where the big spenders usually win the league, this model was considered OK until more clubs had the financial clout to challenge and succeed. It is considered a problem because European football is no longer guaranteed for a select few. From a football fan perspective different clubs winning is good, but the "big clubs" that run the PL do not want anyone else interfering with their revenue streams. |  | | |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 10:52 - Jun 5 with 1757 views | brazil1982 |
Why not let clubs spend what they want? |  | | |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 11:05 - Jun 5 with 1719 views | mutters |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 09:16 - Jun 5 by davblue |
The premier league feels like it's teetering on the edge of becoming a league which everyone knows who's going to win it unless they have a dreadful season. Pep is one of the greats, so maybe when he leaves the league becomes more spread out with the winners.
This is why i can't really understand why people want Man United to fail, they are genuinely under the current rules one of the clubs who can compete with City if they get their house in order. Of course if City have carte Blanche to spend what ever they want then it's going to be City and Newcastle who will destroy the premier league but could also destroy European champions league. |
It was Liverpool in the 70s/80, then it was Man U in the 90s/00s, and now it's Man City's turn. It's been going on for a while and isn't a new situation for football. A lot of sports had dominant teams (Chicago Bulls, NE Patriots, and Me managing Ipswich on CM 01/02), it's just the circle of sports.
All it takes is a change of stewardship and it can change rapidly. Let's see how good Man CIty are once Pep goes. |  |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 11:19 - Jun 5 with 1647 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Fair enough - but where do you stop? There’s not much difference between middle Easter dictatators, Russian gangsters or indeed US hedge funds, or locals made good from gambling if it results in money doping.
A salary cap is probably the only viable option |  |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 11:42 - Jun 5 with 1568 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 10:41 - Jun 5 by homer_123 |
So, I'd love to see us promoted, don't get me wrong. by homer_123 26 Feb 2024 11:24But I've been wondering if I would enjoy watching us as much in the Prem. Yes, we'll get to watch some world class players at PR again but I have this nagging, niggly feeling that it won't be anywhere near as much fun as watching us over the last couple of years under KM.
The heart and soul of the Club was slowly and surely extracted from the Club under Evans stewardship. The link to the fans became tenuous at best. The community and family that the Club once was, lost as Evans had little to no interest after a few years of ownership.
Lack of investment off the pitch contributing as much as the lack of investment in the playing side of things.
Yes, we are now owned by an American pension fund but since Ashton et al came in the Club has rapidly and effectively built back up those links to it's fanbase, to the people that have long supported and followed the Club. Add to this the work KM and the team have done on the pitch is nothing short of miraculous.
And here's the thing - my nagging feeling is the squad will change significantly when we go up - these players have delivered so much and watching them, week in and week out, improve both individually and collectively is quite a sight but I don't think this team can really compete at that top level without major changes. It's not a slight on them or me being negative, it is just what it is.
I have enjoyed, so much, watching this group of players play beyond what, I am sure, even they believed they were capable of doing. KM and team have not just developed their footballing and decision making abilities but instilled an ethic, an approach if you will, to football that is something to admire.
I fear it won't be the same as the core won't stay the same when we go up. I rather lament that thought.
I've been lucky enough to watch us under Robson, Lyall, Burley and Royle as well as others. Given where we were not just on the pitch but what had happened to us off it. This group of players and what they have done with the help of Ashton, KM and the team deserves to go down in ITFC lore.
We are simply a joy to watch as we go about our business. That trepidation, excitement and nervous energy you feel on the way to ground, for me at least, is well and truly back.
Don't get me wrong, I am sure in the Prem it will be similar but I don't think it will be the same and right now, I don't want that feeling to change.
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I hear ya. | |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 11:43 - Jun 5 with 1567 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 11:05 - Jun 5 by mutters |
It was Liverpool in the 70s/80, then it was Man U in the 90s/00s, and now it's Man City's turn. It's been going on for a while and isn't a new situation for football. A lot of sports had dominant teams (Chicago Bulls, NE Patriots, and Me managing Ipswich on CM 01/02), it's just the circle of sports.
All it takes is a change of stewardship and it can change rapidly. Let's see how good Man CIty are once Pep goes. |
Good points.
Without Pep I don't think they would have done 4 in a row. | |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 11:47 - Jun 5 with 1553 views | itfckenty |
in all honesty, Money is king and I think the prem can do what they want to stop anything being passed, but we all know the future outcome, it's been tried once and it will eventually happen again. if the nation owned clubs want to take a fine (which the courts probably wouldn't pass anyway) it's just a matter of time before these "big" clubs create a new league and dominate in that sense. the whole thing is monopolised anyway, even from the FA/UEFA side, there is nothing stopping anyone from setting up a new league, it just won't be recognised by UEFA - until it's incredibly popular and making tons of money. |  | | |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 11:48 - Jun 5 with 1549 views | Guthrum |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 10:52 - Jun 5 by brazil1982 |
Why not let clubs spend what they want? |
Three things:
1. It will become uncompetitive, given the disparity between even ultra-wealthy individual owners and the respurces of a nation state. That's fine if you consider football to be a performance art like ballet, where beautiful play is more important than a fair contest.
2. Inflation will (further) destroy the sport. Money pumped in without restraint will lead to ever greater fees and wages, with clubs going bust simply trying to survive.
3. There may come a situation where the money dries up, through international events or trends such as a move away from oil to renewables. Whereupon the whole system crashes as the flow is cut off. | |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 11:50 - Jun 5 with 1525 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 11:47 - Jun 5 by itfckenty |
in all honesty, Money is king and I think the prem can do what they want to stop anything being passed, but we all know the future outcome, it's been tried once and it will eventually happen again. if the nation owned clubs want to take a fine (which the courts probably wouldn't pass anyway) it's just a matter of time before these "big" clubs create a new league and dominate in that sense. the whole thing is monopolised anyway, even from the FA/UEFA side, there is nothing stopping anyone from setting up a new league, it just won't be recognised by UEFA - until it's incredibly popular and making tons of money. |
There is definitely an element of the big legacy clubs wanting to protect their cartel. Liverpool and Utd have huge financial advantages that they want to protect. | |
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| Simple way to solve the current Prem crisis. on 13:35 - Jun 5 with 1376 views | bsw72 |
The Premier League are the architect this crisis, the split from the football league was to maximize revenue from league football, now it's biting them in the 'arris. |  | | |
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