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“The antisemitic actions and rhetoric that Ireland is taking against Israel are based on delegitimisation and demonisation of the Jewish state and on double standards,” said Sa’ar.
The shame of it, a whole country of antisemites! Tell them to be sure not to come back, to be sure.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
“The antisemitic actions and rhetoric that Ireland is taking against Israel are based on delegitimisation and demonisation of the Jewish state and on double standards,” said Sa’ar.
The shame of it, a whole country of antisemites! Tell them to be sure not to come back, to be sure.
Speaking of double standards, Israel has not applied similar measures to other countries, including Egypt, Spain, and Mexico, that joined the petition.
As my mother-in-law used to say, " write when you land. "
“The antisemitic actions and rhetoric that Ireland is taking against Israel are based on delegitimisation and demonisation of the Jewish state and on double standards,” said Sa’ar.
The shame of it, a whole country of antisemites! Tell them to be sure not to come back, to be sure.
Criticising Iran, The US or Cambodia is not Islamophobia, anti Christian or anti Buddhist but criticising Israel IS antisemitic. That's the double standard right there.
Ireland are a neutral nation. They don't get involved in wars. They avoid confrontation by "come on in and have a drink". This is Israel trying to distract the world while they attempt a land grab of Syrian land while Syria is in turmoil. Ireland are the last nation that will make a fuss so they're the easy option to have a 'disagreement' with.
Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
Ireland are a neutral nation. They don't get involved in wars. They avoid confrontation by "come on in and have a drink". This is Israel trying to distract the world while they attempt a land grab of Syrian land while Syria is in turmoil. Ireland are the last nation that will make a fuss so they're the easy option to have a 'disagreement' with.
They also threatened Irish UN peacekeepers which are trying to keep the waring factions apart.
It's the language that Israel use. "We're trying to establish a stable area" - by killing everyone who lives there? It doesn't help that we have the Israel Defence Force (IDF) and the Defence Force which is UNIFIL. You have to read the report again and again to clarify what's what.
Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
The end of the article is rather ironic in the context of the main story but what is going on there isn't getting any publicity any more.
"Israeli forces continued to pound northern Gaza on Sunday, with one airstrike on the Khalil Aweida school in the town of Beit Hanoun killing at least 15 people, according to nearby Kamal Adwan hospital, where casualties were taken.
In Gaza City, at least 17 people, including six women and five children, were killed in three airstrikes that hit houses sheltering displaced people, according to Al-Ahli hospital.
An Israeli airstrike also hit the civil emergency centre in the Nuseirat market area in central Gaza, killing Ahmed Al-Louh, a video journalist for Al Jazeera TV, and five other people, medics and fellow journalists said."
Also sad to hear on the World Service of a women with stage 4 cancer who was given an aspirin because medical care for people such as her has ceased to exist.
The end of the article is rather ironic in the context of the main story but what is going on there isn't getting any publicity any more.
"Israeli forces continued to pound northern Gaza on Sunday, with one airstrike on the Khalil Aweida school in the town of Beit Hanoun killing at least 15 people, according to nearby Kamal Adwan hospital, where casualties were taken.
In Gaza City, at least 17 people, including six women and five children, were killed in three airstrikes that hit houses sheltering displaced people, according to Al-Ahli hospital.
An Israeli airstrike also hit the civil emergency centre in the Nuseirat market area in central Gaza, killing Ahmed Al-Louh, a video journalist for Al Jazeera TV, and five other people, medics and fellow journalists said."
Also sad to hear on the World Service of a women with stage 4 cancer who was given an aspirin because medical care for people such as her has ceased to exist.
[Post edited 16 Dec 2024 8:28]
A government and military full of cnts basically.
Edit....apologies, I forgot to add thieving, land grabbing, murdering ......
[Post edited 16 Dec 2024 8:51]
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
I’m not getting involved in the debate on this ghastly tragedy as quite simply I don’t know enough about it. However reading Churchill’s biography the other week I came across the story that Ireland’s Taoiseach de Valera offered condolences to Germany for the death of Adolf Hitler. It was an odd, unnecessary thing to do given Germany had lost the war.
It caused enormous trouble for Ireland at the time, not least with Americans not helped by de Valera loathing American diplomat David Gray. A good summary is attached. It’s written by RTE so from Ireland’s perspective and while it misses certain aspects of allied/Ireland relations, it’s the most concise summary I’ve read on this particular subject:
I wonder how much of poor relations between Ireland and Israel has its roots in this? Probably none, but interesting all the same.
Edit: for historical accuracy, de Valera and the Irish President Kevin Keegan did not sign a book of condolence, but did express condolences. Irish flags were not flown at half mast not least because there was no funeral so no decision had to be made.
I’m not getting involved in the debate on this ghastly tragedy as quite simply I don’t know enough about it. However reading Churchill’s biography the other week I came across the story that Ireland’s Taoiseach de Valera offered condolences to Germany for the death of Adolf Hitler. It was an odd, unnecessary thing to do given Germany had lost the war.
It caused enormous trouble for Ireland at the time, not least with Americans not helped by de Valera loathing American diplomat David Gray. A good summary is attached. It’s written by RTE so from Ireland’s perspective and while it misses certain aspects of allied/Ireland relations, it’s the most concise summary I’ve read on this particular subject:
I wonder how much of poor relations between Ireland and Israel has its roots in this? Probably none, but interesting all the same.
Edit: for historical accuracy, de Valera and the Irish President Kevin Keegan did not sign a book of condolence, but did express condolences. Irish flags were not flown at half mast not least because there was no funeral so no decision had to be made.
Of course, the picture of Eire’s leanings in WW2 is interesting. About 70k volunteered to serve in the British armed forces and they weren’t pardoned until 2013. Then there is the topic of ‘treaty ports’. Three ports were retained for use by Britain as part of the 1921 agreement.
At the end of the 30s trade war and discussions, Neville Chamberlain decided that it was worth surrendering the treaty ports unconditionally "to obtain the essential goodwill of the Irish Free State" but also as a sign of goodwill to Nazi Germany as part of his policy of appeasement.
The hope was that Ireland would allow use of the three ports if it came to war. Wrong. Ireland did not and this element of appeasement alone cost many 100s of allied lives and ships. Given how close to disaster Britain came with shipping losses to uboats, invading Ireland was even considered, as was offering a united ireland in return for their use. The situation was that grave. None of that happened, men died.
Did Ireland support Germany? I think it’s loathing of Britain outweighed any hate of the Germans. But it should be remembered that while British airmen and sailors who wound in Ireland were secretly returned through NI, the German captives were interned for the duration.
So whatever their leanings, neutrality at all costs appears to have been the aim. They knew about the Holocaust of course. But then everybody did, but it was never anyone’s primary concern. A complex picture, as it is to this day.
The articles I have read suggest that in the lead up to the formation of the State of Israel, and in its early days, many in Ireland felt common cause with the Jewish people because they saw them as fellow oppressed people.
Indeed that may explain in part this passage in the article that Churchman links.
"In that context, and returning to the Constitution, it is worth noting that in 1937, de Valera included a specific recognition of the Jewish faith in the article on religion, an extremely striking decision at a time when antisemitism was rampant in Europe.
In recognition of that act, in the 1960s the Éamon de Valera Forest was planted in Israel, near Nazareth.
The then-Israeli prime minister, Levi Eshkol, said the forest was a "fitting expression of the traditional friendship between the Irish and Jewish peoples, two nations that have so much in common of history and fulfilment."
The position changed over the course of the 20th century with the Palestinians being increasingly recognised as an oppressed people, and an article I read said it was the First Intifada which began in 1987 which was a real turning point in terms of support in Ireland for the Palestinian cause.
EDIT: this is what Wikipedia says about the forest which still exists.
The planting and dedication of the forest was arranged by the Dublin Jewish community, in recognition of De Valera's consistent support for Ireland's Jews. In the Irish Constitution of 1937, the drafting of which was personally supervised by De Valera, the writing of the Constitution specifically gave constitutional protection to Jews. This was considered to be a necessary component to the constitution by Éamon de Valera because of the treatment of Jews elsewhere in Europe at the time.
Of course, the picture of Eire’s leanings in WW2 is interesting. About 70k volunteered to serve in the British armed forces and they weren’t pardoned until 2013. Then there is the topic of ‘treaty ports’. Three ports were retained for use by Britain as part of the 1921 agreement.
At the end of the 30s trade war and discussions, Neville Chamberlain decided that it was worth surrendering the treaty ports unconditionally "to obtain the essential goodwill of the Irish Free State" but also as a sign of goodwill to Nazi Germany as part of his policy of appeasement.
The hope was that Ireland would allow use of the three ports if it came to war. Wrong. Ireland did not and this element of appeasement alone cost many 100s of allied lives and ships. Given how close to disaster Britain came with shipping losses to uboats, invading Ireland was even considered, as was offering a united ireland in return for their use. The situation was that grave. None of that happened, men died.
Did Ireland support Germany? I think it’s loathing of Britain outweighed any hate of the Germans. But it should be remembered that while British airmen and sailors who wound in Ireland were secretly returned through NI, the German captives were interned for the duration.
So whatever their leanings, neutrality at all costs appears to have been the aim. They knew about the Holocaust of course. But then everybody did, but it was never anyone’s primary concern. A complex picture, as it is to this day.
[Post edited 16 Dec 2024 14:10]
As well as the thousands of Irishmen who joined the British forces to fight the Nazis we should also remember the hundreds of thousands who came over to England, Scotland and Wales to work on farms, in factories, in hospitals and so on. This also supported the War effort. It also antagonised the Nazis, as did the supply of fresh produce from the island of Ireland by sea to Great Britain, so much so that Irish ships and fishing trawlers became targets for U-boats. They did get a concession that Allied shipping did not get, they were given a radio warning before they were torpedoed so they had a few minutes to prepare to abandon ship.
This whole thing is not about Ireland denying the state of Israel, its about Israel's treatment of Palestinian's and their denial of a Palestinian state.
A former Irish Foreign Affairs Minister explains our position perfectly.
As well as the thousands of Irishmen who joined the British forces to fight the Nazis we should also remember the hundreds of thousands who came over to England, Scotland and Wales to work on farms, in factories, in hospitals and so on. This also supported the War effort. It also antagonised the Nazis, as did the supply of fresh produce from the island of Ireland by sea to Great Britain, so much so that Irish ships and fishing trawlers became targets for U-boats. They did get a concession that Allied shipping did not get, they were given a radio warning before they were torpedoed so they had a few minutes to prepare to abandon ship.
This whole thing is not about Ireland denying the state of Israel, its about Israel's treatment of Palestinian's and their denial of a Palestinian state.
A former Irish Foreign Affairs Minister explains our position perfectly.
Of course. But I’m just exploring whether in any decision making, including telling Israel to do one, any historical actions or relationships play any part. Especially given most other countries to my knowledge haven’t taken the action Ireland has. Just curiosity.
The last link is by a young person who went to Palestine and is the most interesting for me.
I am not seeking to judge, just understand because as sure as night follows day there has to be a better solution than this. For me blame gets you nowhere. Living in the past, the same. Learn from it and don’t repeat its mistakes - yet we do the latter all too often.
In a perfect world every person is entitled to their future albeit not at the expense of somebody else. I don’t care whether it’s the victims of that animal Putin, the poor people of Sudan, Palestinians living in an endless war zone or Israeli hostages who will probably die horribly or anyone else.
We have to leave a better legacy than this, but with madmen, idiots and weak people in charge by the dozen in this world, I’m not optimistic.
When you put nationalist sentiment and a country’s image before the well-being of a vulnerable minority, maybe it’s time to look at your moral compass. This isn’t a reflection of the majority of decent Irish people any more than the likes of Tommy Robinson is a reflection of the English.
When you put nationalist sentiment and a country’s image before the well-being of a vulnerable minority, maybe it’s time to look at your moral compass. This isn’t a reflection of the majority of decent Irish people any more than the likes of Tommy Robinson is a reflection of the English.
I couldn't let this ignorant and uninformed post go unchallenged over the Christmas period. I refuse to be condescended to by someone who appears to receive their insight into Ireland-Israel deplomacy from Israeli propeganda exponents. You do not know the thoughts of the majority of decent Irish people as you haven't linked to any articles with those thoughts ( strange when we are all anti Semitic and would strengthen your case ). What you have done is perpitrated the myth that we are a nation of antisemites because we oppose Israel's actions in Palestine created by American and UK Israeli propagandists. The American ones also push the 'If you dont toe the line, Donald will take the multinationals off you' line which the departing Israeli ambassador suggested. Its all a bit desperate to be clutching the safety blanket of antisemitism when you are in the wrong and it has nothing to do with race, creed or colour. During the horrific IRA bombing of the UK in the 90's, was Ireland (%92 Catholic ) and Irish people hated because they were Catholic? It is not Ireland who say that Israel is a Jewish state, it is Israel.
As an Irishman who has lived in this country for over 60 years I can enlighten you to our moral compass. WE DONT SUPPORT GENOCIDE. The majority of Irish citizens support our government in both their intervention in the South African case against Israel at the International Court of Justice and the Irish Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill. Both these actions by the Irish government are morally and ethically correct and may as suggested ( threatened ) by Israel and Israel supporting countries to cause the country financial harm. I am not seeing us promoting our countries image here and we may well actually suffer for our principles.
I will just do a quick run through your portfolio in the proof of Irelands national antisemitism.
1. Arsen Ostrovsky is an attorney and CEO of the International Legal Forum, an Israel based NGO and global coalition of lawyers, combating antisemitism and standing up for Israel in the international legal area. I have no direct information regarding the ILF funding but you can see where they are coming from in this article. https://inthesetimes.com/features/BDS-movement-Israel-Palestine-activists-boycot
The third hand report says that the Chief Rabbi Jews in Ireland dont feel safe any more which is not exactly proof of national antisemitism
2. The one and only article that is factually correct of an antisemetic attack in Ireland so proof positive of national hatred of Jews.
3. Ahhh, the Fathom Journal. The Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) is a UK-based organisation which acts to promote awareness of Israel and the Middle East in the United Kingdom. BICOM publishes materials such as briefings and a journal, Fathom, covering the history, economy, culture and politics of Israel, Middle East peace plans, terrorism in the Middle East, UK-Israel relations and foreign policy. Their funding comes from an Israeli arms dealer. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/04/biscom-israel-lobby-poju-zabludowi
The article itself is a rambling stream of consciousness which just seems to list individual rather than national views ( the one national thing that was mentioned was the putting the protection of Jews into the Irish Constitution ).
It is not antisemitic to criticize Israel. It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Israeli government policy. are the first two lines of the introduction which is followed by 200 pages of mostly denying both these statements. I dont think any supervisors would be accepting this 'report' as a submission for a thesis. Academics normally frown on 100% internet research!
5. I've saved Noggin the effort of responding about Arsen Ostrovsky ( see 1 above ). I was a bit disappointed you didn't post about the rampant antisemitism in Slovenia ( the third country to recognise Palestine in 2024 ).
In conclusion I hope you have a Happy Christmas and a peaceful New Year and Israeli can take a break from murdering and starving Palestinians. I am assuming they will be rushing to fill the humanitarian gap they have caused by banning UNRWA.
FYI His name is Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon and unfortunately we had to give him an Irish passport ( ironic for British nationalist! )
I couldn't let this ignorant and uninformed post go unchallenged over the Christmas period. I refuse to be condescended to by someone who appears to receive their insight into Ireland-Israel deplomacy from Israeli propeganda exponents. You do not know the thoughts of the majority of decent Irish people as you haven't linked to any articles with those thoughts ( strange when we are all anti Semitic and would strengthen your case ). What you have done is perpitrated the myth that we are a nation of antisemites because we oppose Israel's actions in Palestine created by American and UK Israeli propagandists. The American ones also push the 'If you dont toe the line, Donald will take the multinationals off you' line which the departing Israeli ambassador suggested. Its all a bit desperate to be clutching the safety blanket of antisemitism when you are in the wrong and it has nothing to do with race, creed or colour. During the horrific IRA bombing of the UK in the 90's, was Ireland (%92 Catholic ) and Irish people hated because they were Catholic? It is not Ireland who say that Israel is a Jewish state, it is Israel.
As an Irishman who has lived in this country for over 60 years I can enlighten you to our moral compass. WE DONT SUPPORT GENOCIDE. The majority of Irish citizens support our government in both their intervention in the South African case against Israel at the International Court of Justice and the Irish Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill. Both these actions by the Irish government are morally and ethically correct and may as suggested ( threatened ) by Israel and Israel supporting countries to cause the country financial harm. I am not seeing us promoting our countries image here and we may well actually suffer for our principles.
I will just do a quick run through your portfolio in the proof of Irelands national antisemitism.
1. Arsen Ostrovsky is an attorney and CEO of the International Legal Forum, an Israel based NGO and global coalition of lawyers, combating antisemitism and standing up for Israel in the international legal area. I have no direct information regarding the ILF funding but you can see where they are coming from in this article. https://inthesetimes.com/features/BDS-movement-Israel-Palestine-activists-boycot
The third hand report says that the Chief Rabbi Jews in Ireland dont feel safe any more which is not exactly proof of national antisemitism
2. The one and only article that is factually correct of an antisemetic attack in Ireland so proof positive of national hatred of Jews.
3. Ahhh, the Fathom Journal. The Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) is a UK-based organisation which acts to promote awareness of Israel and the Middle East in the United Kingdom. BICOM publishes materials such as briefings and a journal, Fathom, covering the history, economy, culture and politics of Israel, Middle East peace plans, terrorism in the Middle East, UK-Israel relations and foreign policy. Their funding comes from an Israeli arms dealer. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/04/biscom-israel-lobby-poju-zabludowi
The article itself is a rambling stream of consciousness which just seems to list individual rather than national views ( the one national thing that was mentioned was the putting the protection of Jews into the Irish Constitution ).
It is not antisemitic to criticize Israel. It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Israeli government policy. are the first two lines of the introduction which is followed by 200 pages of mostly denying both these statements. I dont think any supervisors would be accepting this 'report' as a submission for a thesis. Academics normally frown on 100% internet research!
5. I've saved Noggin the effort of responding about Arsen Ostrovsky ( see 1 above ). I was a bit disappointed you didn't post about the rampant antisemitism in Slovenia ( the third country to recognise Palestine in 2024 ).
In conclusion I hope you have a Happy Christmas and a peaceful New Year and Israeli can take a break from murdering and starving Palestinians. I am assuming they will be rushing to fill the humanitarian gap they have caused by banning UNRWA.
FYI His name is Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon and unfortunately we had to give him an Irish passport ( ironic for British nationalist! )
[Post edited 24 Dec 2024 20:41]
Thanks. I have no idea what he has written about me because, as he knows, he's been on ignore for years. Seems like he's been linking dubious articles that support his narrative though. That won't surprise, or kid anyone.
This whole thing is not about Ireland denying the state of Israel, its about Israel's treatment of Palestinian's and their denial of a Palestinian state.
A former Irish Foreign Affairs Minister explains our position perfectly.
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