| Zak Crawley 13:04 - Jul 10 with 1303 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
Surely his dad's friendship with Rob Key can only keep him in the side for so long.
Failure after failure after failure. Poor average, gives his wicket away. One of the worst openers to play for England IMO |  |
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| Zak Crawley on 13:08 - Jul 10 with 1269 views | BlueGoonie |
He copped a real snorter there, nothing to throw at Crawley on this one |  | | |
| Zak Crawley on 13:09 - Jul 10 with 1247 views | chantryblueboy |
How would you have played the ball he got today? |  | | |
| Zak Crawley on 13:14 - Jul 10 with 1217 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Zak Crawley on 13:09 - Jul 10 by chantryblueboy |
How would you have played the ball he got today? |
Tbh I haven't been watching as i am at work so if he got a good ball today fair enough. But its doesn't take away from the fact that he is a wafter, with a poor average, gives away his wicket far to often and should not be an international cricketer.
Today maybe he was unlucky but it won't be long before hes chasing one wildly away from off stump and nicking it to slip | |
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| Zak Crawley on 13:19 - Jul 10 with 1169 views | BlueGoonie |
| Zak Crawley on 13:14 - Jul 10 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Tbh I haven't been watching as i am at work so if he got a good ball today fair enough. But its doesn't take away from the fact that he is a wafter, with a poor average, gives away his wicket far to often and should not be an international cricketer.
Today maybe he was unlucky but it won't be long before hes chasing one wildly away from off stump and nicking it to slip |
He part of the best opening partnership England have had since Cook & Strauss. Duckett has outshone him for sure to the point where he's now considered one of the best openers in world cricket in all formats, but Crawley has played his part in that success. | | | |
| Zak Crawley on 13:37 - Jul 10 with 1098 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Zak Crawley on 13:19 - Jul 10 by BlueGoonie |
He part of the best opening partnership England have had since Cook & Strauss. Duckett has outshone him for sure to the point where he's now considered one of the best openers in world cricket in all formats, but Crawley has played his part in that success. |
I don't think he has contributed much to that tbh.
Occasionally he plays a beautiful innings but they are to few and far between.
He avargaes just over 31 having played over 50 tests and aveage that is inflated by (what was i admit a find double 100 against india) He has 5 test 100s in that time, one against Zimbabwe. Ignoring Zim, his avargae in the last 12 months is around 16.
It time to look elsewhere. No other batter with those stats would keep their place. [Post edited 10 Jul 13:56]
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| Zak Crawley on 13:57 - Jul 10 with 992 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
Edited ty. But given he wafts the bat like a limp lettuce leaf at anything wide of off stump its not the worst metaphor [Post edited 10 Jul 14:19]
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| Zak Crawley on 14:08 - Jul 10 with 959 views | chicoazul |
Plays like a man who knows he’s going to inherit £100m |  |
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| Zak Crawley on 14:22 - Jul 10 with 923 views | BlueGoonie |
| Zak Crawley on 13:37 - Jul 10 by BlueandTruesince82 |
I don't think he has contributed much to that tbh.
Occasionally he plays a beautiful innings but they are to few and far between.
He avargaes just over 31 having played over 50 tests and aveage that is inflated by (what was i admit a find double 100 against india) He has 5 test 100s in that time, one against Zimbabwe. Ignoring Zim, his avargae in the last 12 months is around 16.
It time to look elsewhere. No other batter with those stats would keep their place. [Post edited 10 Jul 13:56]
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You can't criticise someone fairly with selective data that suits a particular agenda.
That's like saying Greece have never won anything, discounting the Euro's win which was just lucky.
Even if England have wanted to drop him there's not exactly a plethora of openers knocking the door down to claim the spot. | | | |
| Zak Crawley on 14:48 - Jul 10 with 881 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Zak Crawley on 14:22 - Jul 10 by BlueGoonie |
You can't criticise someone fairly with selective data that suits a particular agenda.
That's like saying Greece have never won anything, discounting the Euro's win which was just lucky.
Even if England have wanted to drop him there's not exactly a plethora of openers knocking the door down to claim the spot. |
I dont think the Greece comparison is fair, different sports. Cricket has always been to a point about stats and the two things being compared are very different. Making runs against India, Aus, SA etc is very different to making them against Zim, The Dutch or say Scotland. Just like making runs on difficult surface is different to making them on a flat track, Crawley can barely manage that.
Zimbabwe are very, very poor and even if you include that knock his aveage is still poor. In fairness I have included wider stats to inc his overall test average and hadnt mentioned the fact that he recently went 17 innings without a 50.
If you'd like further non selective stats to make the point.
Duckett has played 35 matches to Crawleys 56 has 6 hundreds to Crawleys 5. Has 14 50s to Crawleys 17 having played 20 l fewer tests. His aveage is 42.
Hes habbit of wafting outside off has noted at length by pundits, yet he makes to attempt to fix this clear issue (or if he has it isnt working).
How many times had Crawley anchored an innings? Rarely. And I don't think who else is there is reson enough to keep rewarding failure. England must at least look at options. [Post edited 10 Jul 15:02]
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| Zak Crawley on 15:12 - Jul 10 with 838 views | BlueGoonie |
| Zak Crawley on 14:48 - Jul 10 by BlueandTruesince82 |
I dont think the Greece comparison is fair, different sports. Cricket has always been to a point about stats and the two things being compared are very different. Making runs against India, Aus, SA etc is very different to making them against Zim, The Dutch or say Scotland. Just like making runs on difficult surface is different to making them on a flat track, Crawley can barely manage that.
Zimbabwe are very, very poor and even if you include that knock his aveage is still poor. In fairness I have included wider stats to inc his overall test average and hadnt mentioned the fact that he recently went 17 innings without a 50.
If you'd like further non selective stats to make the point.
Duckett has played 35 matches to Crawleys 56 has 6 hundreds to Crawleys 5. Has 14 50s to Crawleys 17 having played 20 l fewer tests. His aveage is 42.
Hes habbit of wafting outside off has noted at length by pundits, yet he makes to attempt to fix this clear issue (or if he has it isnt working).
How many times had Crawley anchored an innings? Rarely. And I don't think who else is there is reson enough to keep rewarding failure. England must at least look at options. [Post edited 10 Jul 15:02]
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Crawley is flawless or one of the greats, clearly he is not. Also he's not the first test batsman to be susceptible to a particular delivery. Kevin Pietersen frequently lost his wicket to left arm spin and Brian Lara had a blind spot with a leg slip, to name just two. Crawley's flaw is the corridor on a length outside off stump, but many a better batsmen than him have the same issue throughout their career, without being able to resolve it.
You're comparing him directly to someone who is currently regarded as one of the best openers in world cricket in all formats. He is obviously the junior partner in this current partnership, but he is a partner nonetheless.
The fact that Duckett has been so good over the last year/18 months has probably caused the spotlight to fall on Crawley more so, and unfairly so IMHO.
Nonetheless, whatever the merits of this debate, you called him out as failing today without even seeing the delivery. Does that suggest you have an anti-Crawley agenda? Had you seen it, and realised he copped an absolutely unplayable nut, I wonder if you'd have still started this thread? | | | |
| Zak Crawley on 15:38 - Jul 10 with 805 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Zak Crawley on 15:12 - Jul 10 by BlueGoonie |
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Crawley is flawless or one of the greats, clearly he is not. Also he's not the first test batsman to be susceptible to a particular delivery. Kevin Pietersen frequently lost his wicket to left arm spin and Brian Lara had a blind spot with a leg slip, to name just two. Crawley's flaw is the corridor on a length outside off stump, but many a better batsmen than him have the same issue throughout their career, without being able to resolve it.
You're comparing him directly to someone who is currently regarded as one of the best openers in world cricket in all formats. He is obviously the junior partner in this current partnership, but he is a partner nonetheless.
The fact that Duckett has been so good over the last year/18 months has probably caused the spotlight to fall on Crawley more so, and unfairly so IMHO.
Nonetheless, whatever the merits of this debate, you called him out as failing today without even seeing the delivery. Does that suggest you have an anti-Crawley agenda? Had you seen it, and realised he copped an absolutely unplayable nut, I wonder if you'd have still started this thread? |
Do i have an anti crawley agenda? Yes. I dont think he should be in the team, I think he has been given chance after chance and continues to fail.
Most batters are susceptible to something but that is forgiveable if you make runs. Lara and KP made runs, played game changing innings. Crawley rarely makes the former and the latter even less.
Dropping him might be good for him. What a second comming Mark Butcher had for England.
Of course comparing him to Duckett shows him up, Duckett is better, that doesnt make the comparison unfair. They both open for England. Thats exactly who he should be compared to and Duckett being code does not make Crawley less bad.
We coumd look at Mckinney, was u19s captain scored a good century for the lions. Fits current mindset, young and room to grow.
Haines, top run scorer in county cricket, perhaos deserves his chance.
Maybe even (and this wouldn't be my choice) Sibley, not great for England previously but just out up 3 figures for Surrey, not Bazball but perhaps England need someone who digs in and let's others bat around him. Test average not good (hence not my first choice) but would refer back to the point around Butcher.
Crawley is getting to Hick/Ramprakash levels of chances without any consistent output (and often v little at all).
Look, id love him to make runs, id love to see him go and make a good ton in the 2nd innings, truly. I dont think he will but I hope he does and as you say, he got a snorter today, I'll hold my hands up to that one. Bad luck for him. But bad luck often follows bad form in Cricket.
I see that Crawley in full flow look stylish and I think his problems are much more mental than talent (one woumd argue Ramps and Hick had exactly the same issue) but the buck has to stop somewhere and its now probably too late to give anyone else a go before the ashes? Do you feel confident with Crawley walking out to open down under? I dont. I hope that changes before the Ashes start, desperately.
Lastly id say its not just me that is calling this out, Vaughan, Cook etc all see it.
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| Zak Crawley on 16:06 - Jul 10 with 766 views | BlueGoonie |
| Zak Crawley on 15:38 - Jul 10 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Do i have an anti crawley agenda? Yes. I dont think he should be in the team, I think he has been given chance after chance and continues to fail.
Most batters are susceptible to something but that is forgiveable if you make runs. Lara and KP made runs, played game changing innings. Crawley rarely makes the former and the latter even less.
Dropping him might be good for him. What a second comming Mark Butcher had for England.
Of course comparing him to Duckett shows him up, Duckett is better, that doesnt make the comparison unfair. They both open for England. Thats exactly who he should be compared to and Duckett being code does not make Crawley less bad.
We coumd look at Mckinney, was u19s captain scored a good century for the lions. Fits current mindset, young and room to grow.
Haines, top run scorer in county cricket, perhaos deserves his chance.
Maybe even (and this wouldn't be my choice) Sibley, not great for England previously but just out up 3 figures for Surrey, not Bazball but perhaps England need someone who digs in and let's others bat around him. Test average not good (hence not my first choice) but would refer back to the point around Butcher.
Crawley is getting to Hick/Ramprakash levels of chances without any consistent output (and often v little at all).
Look, id love him to make runs, id love to see him go and make a good ton in the 2nd innings, truly. I dont think he will but I hope he does and as you say, he got a snorter today, I'll hold my hands up to that one. Bad luck for him. But bad luck often follows bad form in Cricket.
I see that Crawley in full flow look stylish and I think his problems are much more mental than talent (one woumd argue Ramps and Hick had exactly the same issue) but the buck has to stop somewhere and its now probably too late to give anyone else a go before the ashes? Do you feel confident with Crawley walking out to open down under? I dont. I hope that changes before the Ashes start, desperately.
Lastly id say its not just me that is calling this out, Vaughan, Cook etc all see it.
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Had there been an obvious potential successor he may have been dropped, but the simple fact is there isn't one. None of those names you mentioned would give me any greater confidence opening in Australia, so Crawley it is. | | | |
| Zak Crawley on 16:16 - Jul 10 with 744 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Zak Crawley on 16:06 - Jul 10 by BlueGoonie |
Had there been an obvious potential successor he may have been dropped, but the simple fact is there isn't one. None of those names you mentioned would give me any greater confidence opening in Australia, so Crawley it is. |
Perhaps but nor have they been given chance to make that claim, hard to hold that agaisnt them. What they dont have is 50 plus caps of consistent under delivery behind them.
England have shown a willingness to route around, Smith comming in to keep wicket as an example but not prepared to do the same with Crawleys spot. Because there is no one that deserves at least a chance? (2 names on my list really warrant at least a shot IMO) or because Crawley Sr plays golf with Rob Key and has the right school tie? | |
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| Zak Crawley on 16:31 - Jul 10 with 722 views | BlueGoonie |
| Zak Crawley on 16:16 - Jul 10 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Perhaps but nor have they been given chance to make that claim, hard to hold that agaisnt them. What they dont have is 50 plus caps of consistent under delivery behind them.
England have shown a willingness to route around, Smith comming in to keep wicket as an example but not prepared to do the same with Crawleys spot. Because there is no one that deserves at least a chance? (2 names on my list really warrant at least a shot IMO) or because Crawley Sr plays golf with Rob Key and has the right school tie? |
Do you genuinely think someone with such sound judgement as Rob Key has demonstrated would put his professional reputation on the biggest stage in jeopardy over a personal friendship? That sounds like you're looking through your agenda tinted glasses. It doesn't suit the alternative option, which is the alternatives are no better.
That the England selectors (not Rob Key in isolation) have indeed been ruthless in selection in other positions but not the opening pair proves this point. | | | |
| Zak Crawley on 16:37 - Jul 10 with 708 views | gainsboroughblue |
England having a mini wobble here after being in quite comfortable position.
Run rate also down considerably in normal bazball terms. |  |
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| Zak Crawley on 16:45 - Jul 10 with 696 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Zak Crawley on 16:31 - Jul 10 by BlueGoonie |
Do you genuinely think someone with such sound judgement as Rob Key has demonstrated would put his professional reputation on the biggest stage in jeopardy over a personal friendship? That sounds like you're looking through your agenda tinted glasses. It doesn't suit the alternative option, which is the alternatives are no better.
That the England selectors (not Rob Key in isolation) have indeed been ruthless in selection in other positions but not the opening pair proves this point. |
I wouldn't say they have been ruthless, I would say they have been prepared to look for attributes but I wouldn't say ruthless. Foakes was dropped for not doing enough with the vat (his keeping is impeccable) despite averaging only a little less than full-time openr Crawley.
I think English cricket has long been about being the right sort and its naive to not at least consider that attitude still exists in some quarters.
Ultimately you can see it either way cant you and thats what's so great about it and why I fully enjoy this discussion.
I would say that there is one option making bags of runs at county level and another who is 20 years old has a century for the lions in Aus and that ignoring both those claims in the name of sticking with Crawley who has consistently failed to deliver esp right before an overseas ashes surely begs questions.
You would say the opposite. Both points have merit
On another note how about this for a great local.cricket story?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c17wz7wjvw9o | |
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| Zak Crawley on 16:59 - Jul 10 with 680 views | mutters |
| Zak Crawley on 15:38 - Jul 10 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Do i have an anti crawley agenda? Yes. I dont think he should be in the team, I think he has been given chance after chance and continues to fail.
Most batters are susceptible to something but that is forgiveable if you make runs. Lara and KP made runs, played game changing innings. Crawley rarely makes the former and the latter even less.
Dropping him might be good for him. What a second comming Mark Butcher had for England.
Of course comparing him to Duckett shows him up, Duckett is better, that doesnt make the comparison unfair. They both open for England. Thats exactly who he should be compared to and Duckett being code does not make Crawley less bad.
We coumd look at Mckinney, was u19s captain scored a good century for the lions. Fits current mindset, young and room to grow.
Haines, top run scorer in county cricket, perhaos deserves his chance.
Maybe even (and this wouldn't be my choice) Sibley, not great for England previously but just out up 3 figures for Surrey, not Bazball but perhaps England need someone who digs in and let's others bat around him. Test average not good (hence not my first choice) but would refer back to the point around Butcher.
Crawley is getting to Hick/Ramprakash levels of chances without any consistent output (and often v little at all).
Look, id love him to make runs, id love to see him go and make a good ton in the 2nd innings, truly. I dont think he will but I hope he does and as you say, he got a snorter today, I'll hold my hands up to that one. Bad luck for him. But bad luck often follows bad form in Cricket.
I see that Crawley in full flow look stylish and I think his problems are much more mental than talent (one woumd argue Ramps and Hick had exactly the same issue) but the buck has to stop somewhere and its now probably too late to give anyone else a go before the ashes? Do you feel confident with Crawley walking out to open down under? I dont. I hope that changes before the Ashes start, desperately.
Lastly id say its not just me that is calling this out, Vaughan, Cook etc all see it.
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Don't get me started on Grahame Hick. England and Wales really ballsed up his International career but consistently dropping him. If he would had been given the luxury that some today get, he would have been a fantastic servant to England and Wales |  |
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| Zak Crawley on 17:09 - Jul 10 with 665 views | BlueGoonie |
| Zak Crawley on 16:45 - Jul 10 by BlueandTruesince82 |
I wouldn't say they have been ruthless, I would say they have been prepared to look for attributes but I wouldn't say ruthless. Foakes was dropped for not doing enough with the vat (his keeping is impeccable) despite averaging only a little less than full-time openr Crawley.
I think English cricket has long been about being the right sort and its naive to not at least consider that attitude still exists in some quarters.
Ultimately you can see it either way cant you and thats what's so great about it and why I fully enjoy this discussion.
I would say that there is one option making bags of runs at county level and another who is 20 years old has a century for the lions in Aus and that ignoring both those claims in the name of sticking with Crawley who has consistently failed to deliver esp right before an overseas ashes surely begs questions.
You would say the opposite. Both points have merit
On another note how about this for a great local.cricket story?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c17wz7wjvw9o |
I think we're both happy to disagree on this one. Nonetheless I've thoroughly enjoyed the debate, and appreciate your POV.
Many thanks for the chat  | | | |
| Zak Crawley on 18:06 - Jul 10 with 616 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Zak Crawley on 15:38 - Jul 10 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Do i have an anti crawley agenda? Yes. I dont think he should be in the team, I think he has been given chance after chance and continues to fail.
Most batters are susceptible to something but that is forgiveable if you make runs. Lara and KP made runs, played game changing innings. Crawley rarely makes the former and the latter even less.
Dropping him might be good for him. What a second comming Mark Butcher had for England.
Of course comparing him to Duckett shows him up, Duckett is better, that doesnt make the comparison unfair. They both open for England. Thats exactly who he should be compared to and Duckett being code does not make Crawley less bad.
We coumd look at Mckinney, was u19s captain scored a good century for the lions. Fits current mindset, young and room to grow.
Haines, top run scorer in county cricket, perhaos deserves his chance.
Maybe even (and this wouldn't be my choice) Sibley, not great for England previously but just out up 3 figures for Surrey, not Bazball but perhaps England need someone who digs in and let's others bat around him. Test average not good (hence not my first choice) but would refer back to the point around Butcher.
Crawley is getting to Hick/Ramprakash levels of chances without any consistent output (and often v little at all).
Look, id love him to make runs, id love to see him go and make a good ton in the 2nd innings, truly. I dont think he will but I hope he does and as you say, he got a snorter today, I'll hold my hands up to that one. Bad luck for him. But bad luck often follows bad form in Cricket.
I see that Crawley in full flow look stylish and I think his problems are much more mental than talent (one woumd argue Ramps and Hick had exactly the same issue) but the buck has to stop somewhere and its now probably too late to give anyone else a go before the ashes? Do you feel confident with Crawley walking out to open down under? I dont. I hope that changes before the Ashes start, desperately.
Lastly id say its not just me that is calling this out, Vaughan, Cook etc all see it.
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The name you have missed is Johnny Bairstow, who was world number one before he broke his leg, and has significant experience opening in 50 overs international cricket.
Ahead of The Ashes, he is the one I would go for.
Root and Brook are the current Number One and Two ranked batters. Duckett is in with a shout as best opener of past three years. Jamie Smith is arguably the best wicketkeeper-batter. Add Bairstow and you have 5 quality options, with proven character, even before accounting for Stokes, and the "Middle of Lidl Ian Bell", Ollie Pope. | | | |
| Zak Crawley on 18:25 - Jul 10 with 596 views | BlueForYou |
I've been watching all day. Crawley was all over the place, had no idea what he was supposed to be doing! Took three or four different guards, out of the crease then behind it, then a few suicidal rushes down the pitch. He got a good ball to put him out of his misery. There can't be anyone who believes he is going to perform in the future. He's in his 56th match yet still has the same faults he had four years ago! He hasn't listened or worked to educate those faults & make himself a better player. It's becoming embarrassing now. His selection is pure favouritism. England have shown a much more mature batting approach today. The criticism after Edgbaston clearly hit home! |  | | |
| Zak Crawley on 18:31 - Jul 10 with 583 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Zak Crawley on 18:06 - Jul 10 by ArnoldMoorhen |
The name you have missed is Johnny Bairstow, who was world number one before he broke his leg, and has significant experience opening in 50 overs international cricket.
Ahead of The Ashes, he is the one I would go for.
Root and Brook are the current Number One and Two ranked batters. Duckett is in with a shout as best opener of past three years. Jamie Smith is arguably the best wicketkeeper-batter. Add Bairstow and you have 5 quality options, with proven character, even before accounting for Stokes, and the "Middle of Lidl Ian Bell", Ollie Pope. |
Pope is tough one. Bethell makes a strong case for a go at 3 based on what we have seen so far which of course inst much.
Bairstow maybe a case could be made for the middle even no 3 but I think he hasn't been the same since and the middle order is well covered. I'd put Bethell ahead of him.
Of course what England really needs is a bowling attack to take 20 wickets even with a fit Archer I'm not sure we have that | |
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| Zak Crawley on 13:41 - Jul 11 with 351 views | MaySixth |
| Zak Crawley on 18:06 - Jul 10 by ArnoldMoorhen |
The name you have missed is Johnny Bairstow, who was world number one before he broke his leg, and has significant experience opening in 50 overs international cricket.
Ahead of The Ashes, he is the one I would go for.
Root and Brook are the current Number One and Two ranked batters. Duckett is in with a shout as best opener of past three years. Jamie Smith is arguably the best wicketkeeper-batter. Add Bairstow and you have 5 quality options, with proven character, even before accounting for Stokes, and the "Middle of Lidl Ian Bell", Ollie Pope. |
Bairstow's techinque has completely gone at Test level.
He is a walking wicket. |  |
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