| State of Palestine 22:05 - Sep 21 with 5590 views | SitfcB |
Genuine post and question.
Can someone explain what it means, why it’s been done and what they hope will come from it?
Is it a good or bad thing?
Thank you. [Post edited 21 Sep 22:05]
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| State of Palestine on 22:30 - Sep 21 with 3424 views | LeoMuff |
Think it’s to try and head off Israel annexing and absorbing Gaza or parts of into its state.
Anything that halts the Israeli war machine/ land grabs is a good thing and may save the lives of the hostages, however I can’t imagine this will stop them, probably only Trump they will listen to. |  |
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| State of Palestine on 22:42 - Sep 21 with 3359 views | Freddies_Ears |
It is complicated. But, broadly, Jews and Arabs claim equal rights to what Christians call the Holy Land (roughly, modern Israel). If you look at it completely independently, you'd agree they have equal claim; a childhood game of "one cuts, the other chooses" might be one solution (though it cuts the Christians out...).
It is hard to deny Jews the right to a nation after what they went through in and around WW2. And their historic land is pretty much where Israel is. The problem then arises when Arabs have, in their eyes, a superior claim on the same land (though their religion is far newer, I understand).
So, why can't the huge, highly populated and wealthy neighbouring and nearby Arab countries step in, either to influence the argument or to help their Palestinian brothers? Hmm.. you have more chance of Rangers & Celtic fans happoly sharing a pub for a jolly good singalong...
Rationally, you'd want the Israelis and the Palestinians each to have their own land. But that means them acting sensibly.
(I deliberately downplayed the role of religion above, as it feels to me like one of those many conflicts where religious difference is used as an excuse for a scrap).
They've been fighting for centuries and won't stop any time soon. |  | | |
| State of Palestine on 22:43 - Sep 21 with 3326 views | FrimleyBlue |
I'm glad someone asked as I've no clue what any of it means. All i see on x for example is the conservatives going mad about it but I dont really appreciate or understand why. |  |
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| State of Palestine on 22:55 - Sep 21 with 3255 views | RIPbobby |
Look at the map of that area of the world before ww2 and you will see why the Palestinians are mad. Well what is left of them. |  | | |
| State of Palestine on 22:58 - Sep 21 with 3247 views | SitfcB |
| State of Palestine on 22:43 - Sep 21 by FrimleyBlue |
I'm glad someone asked as I've no clue what any of it means. All i see on x for example is the conservatives going mad about it but I dont really appreciate or understand why. |
As for most things that happen whilst Labour are in power the Conservatives go mad about it.
…and when the Conservatives are in power Labour go mad about it.
But they’d both be doing the same things. | |
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| State of Palestine on 23:03 - Sep 21 with 3219 views | RIPbobby |
| State of Palestine on 22:42 - Sep 21 by Freddies_Ears |
It is complicated. But, broadly, Jews and Arabs claim equal rights to what Christians call the Holy Land (roughly, modern Israel). If you look at it completely independently, you'd agree they have equal claim; a childhood game of "one cuts, the other chooses" might be one solution (though it cuts the Christians out...).
It is hard to deny Jews the right to a nation after what they went through in and around WW2. And their historic land is pretty much where Israel is. The problem then arises when Arabs have, in their eyes, a superior claim on the same land (though their religion is far newer, I understand).
So, why can't the huge, highly populated and wealthy neighbouring and nearby Arab countries step in, either to influence the argument or to help their Palestinian brothers? Hmm.. you have more chance of Rangers & Celtic fans happoly sharing a pub for a jolly good singalong...
Rationally, you'd want the Israelis and the Palestinians each to have their own land. But that means them acting sensibly.
(I deliberately downplayed the role of religion above, as it feels to me like one of those many conflicts where religious difference is used as an excuse for a scrap).
They've been fighting for centuries and won't stop any time soon. |
Fairly good assessment. Must also point out that there are 3 religions fighting for the holy land, because each of their books has evolved from 1 book "the old testament". Crazy really that the Kuran, Bible and the Tanakh all come from it. Makes a mockery of religion in some people's eyes. But then again 2 people can watch a footie match and make differing assessments of it. [Post edited 22 Sep 7:05]
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| State of Palestine on 23:19 - Sep 21 with 3159 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
All hail a reasonable, balanced and civil discussion on the General Thread!
I believe it can be done. Let's see how long it can remain as such! 🤣 |  |
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| State of Palestine on 23:26 - Sep 21 with 3123 views | bartyg |
| State of Palestine on 22:42 - Sep 21 by Freddies_Ears |
It is complicated. But, broadly, Jews and Arabs claim equal rights to what Christians call the Holy Land (roughly, modern Israel). If you look at it completely independently, you'd agree they have equal claim; a childhood game of "one cuts, the other chooses" might be one solution (though it cuts the Christians out...).
It is hard to deny Jews the right to a nation after what they went through in and around WW2. And their historic land is pretty much where Israel is. The problem then arises when Arabs have, in their eyes, a superior claim on the same land (though their religion is far newer, I understand).
So, why can't the huge, highly populated and wealthy neighbouring and nearby Arab countries step in, either to influence the argument or to help their Palestinian brothers? Hmm.. you have more chance of Rangers & Celtic fans happoly sharing a pub for a jolly good singalong...
Rationally, you'd want the Israelis and the Palestinians each to have their own land. But that means them acting sensibly.
(I deliberately downplayed the role of religion above, as it feels to me like one of those many conflicts where religious difference is used as an excuse for a scrap).
They've been fighting for centuries and won't stop any time soon. |
To be fair the neighboring countries did try to step in? There have been multiple wars fought over the land since the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
I always recommend the Vox youtube video for people who want to understand more about Palestine, it's about 10 years old but details the history quite succinctly and factually. |  | | |
| State of Palestine on 23:29 - Sep 21 with 3109 views | bartyg |
| State of Palestine on 22:42 - Sep 21 by Freddies_Ears |
It is complicated. But, broadly, Jews and Arabs claim equal rights to what Christians call the Holy Land (roughly, modern Israel). If you look at it completely independently, you'd agree they have equal claim; a childhood game of "one cuts, the other chooses" might be one solution (though it cuts the Christians out...).
It is hard to deny Jews the right to a nation after what they went through in and around WW2. And their historic land is pretty much where Israel is. The problem then arises when Arabs have, in their eyes, a superior claim on the same land (though their religion is far newer, I understand).
So, why can't the huge, highly populated and wealthy neighbouring and nearby Arab countries step in, either to influence the argument or to help their Palestinian brothers? Hmm.. you have more chance of Rangers & Celtic fans happoly sharing a pub for a jolly good singalong...
Rationally, you'd want the Israelis and the Palestinians each to have their own land. But that means them acting sensibly.
(I deliberately downplayed the role of religion above, as it feels to me like one of those many conflicts where religious difference is used as an excuse for a scrap).
They've been fighting for centuries and won't stop any time soon. |
Sorry, should also add that yes whilst it's true that both claim rights to the land generally because of religion, on a more granular level hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were displaced during the Nakba. Land that their families had held for generations which was claimed by settlers, essentially. | | | |
| State of Palestine on 00:16 - Sep 22 with 2917 views | Blueschev |
| State of Palestine on 22:42 - Sep 21 by Freddies_Ears |
It is complicated. But, broadly, Jews and Arabs claim equal rights to what Christians call the Holy Land (roughly, modern Israel). If you look at it completely independently, you'd agree they have equal claim; a childhood game of "one cuts, the other chooses" might be one solution (though it cuts the Christians out...).
It is hard to deny Jews the right to a nation after what they went through in and around WW2. And their historic land is pretty much where Israel is. The problem then arises when Arabs have, in their eyes, a superior claim on the same land (though their religion is far newer, I understand).
So, why can't the huge, highly populated and wealthy neighbouring and nearby Arab countries step in, either to influence the argument or to help their Palestinian brothers? Hmm.. you have more chance of Rangers & Celtic fans happoly sharing a pub for a jolly good singalong...
Rationally, you'd want the Israelis and the Palestinians each to have their own land. But that means them acting sensibly.
(I deliberately downplayed the role of religion above, as it feels to me like one of those many conflicts where religious difference is used as an excuse for a scrap).
They've been fighting for centuries and won't stop any time soon. |
They’ve not been fighting for centuries, that’s a myth based on absolutely nothing at all. |  | | |
| State of Palestine on 00:29 - Sep 22 with 2884 views | KingsCrossBlue |
Nice to see historically accurate posts, without the normal pile on. I don’t normally post, but my wife is a Jew. She has several Hebrew tattoos of old poetry and Yiddish slang. In the last three weeks she has been spat at twice and punched in the face. She’s not Jewish, just born a Jew but wants to celebrate her heritage. Shes not alone, there are a lot of folk in the same boat. The situation is nuts, we all know Gaza is horrendous, but this decision by starmer is difficult to swallow. I think a previous poster alluded to it - but no other Middle Eastern country wants it recognised or take refugees / provide aid. Oct 7th isn’t a justification for killing children, but you can’t ever, ever help hamas via the backdoor | | | |
| State of Palestine on 01:10 - Sep 22 with 2761 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
| State of Palestine on 00:29 - Sep 22 by KingsCrossBlue |
Nice to see historically accurate posts, without the normal pile on. I don’t normally post, but my wife is a Jew. She has several Hebrew tattoos of old poetry and Yiddish slang. In the last three weeks she has been spat at twice and punched in the face. She’s not Jewish, just born a Jew but wants to celebrate her heritage. Shes not alone, there are a lot of folk in the same boat. The situation is nuts, we all know Gaza is horrendous, but this decision by starmer is difficult to swallow. I think a previous poster alluded to it - but no other Middle Eastern country wants it recognised or take refugees / provide aid. Oct 7th isn’t a justification for killing children, but you can’t ever, ever help hamas via the backdoor |
I'm not surprised you haven't posted here given the recent vitriol and spats over the Palestine/Israel conflict.
I'm so sorry your wife has been abused because of her race/religious beliefs.
There is never a justifiable reason to show hatred to a peaceful citizen because of their beliefs.
I can't imagine how difficult it must be for two nations to want exclusive rights over a 'holy territory.'
Shalom. | |
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| State of Palestine on 01:20 - Sep 22 with 2731 views | JackNorthStand |
| State of Palestine on 00:29 - Sep 22 by KingsCrossBlue |
Nice to see historically accurate posts, without the normal pile on. I don’t normally post, but my wife is a Jew. She has several Hebrew tattoos of old poetry and Yiddish slang. In the last three weeks she has been spat at twice and punched in the face. She’s not Jewish, just born a Jew but wants to celebrate her heritage. Shes not alone, there are a lot of folk in the same boat. The situation is nuts, we all know Gaza is horrendous, but this decision by starmer is difficult to swallow. I think a previous poster alluded to it - but no other Middle Eastern country wants it recognised or take refugees / provide aid. Oct 7th isn’t a justification for killing children, but you can’t ever, ever help hamas via the backdoor |
The whole situation is terrible. I find it madness from Starmer both the decision and timing. | | | |
| State of Palestine on 01:29 - Sep 22 with 2719 views | KingsCrossBlue |
| State of Palestine on 01:10 - Sep 22 by Hugoagogo_Reborn |
I'm not surprised you haven't posted here given the recent vitriol and spats over the Palestine/Israel conflict.
I'm so sorry your wife has been abused because of her race/religious beliefs.
There is never a justifiable reason to show hatred to a peaceful citizen because of their beliefs.
I can't imagine how difficult it must be for two nations to want exclusive rights over a 'holy territory.'
Shalom. |
Thanks man, appreciate that.
Social media has a lot to answer for.
Got to admit, this place has got to a point where I’m not coming back…. But it’s like crack cocaine or hotel California | | | |
| State of Palestine on 06:51 - Sep 22 with 2158 views | LeoMuff |
| State of Palestine on 01:20 - Sep 22 by JackNorthStand |
The whole situation is terrible. I find it madness from Starmer both the decision and timing. |
Timing is because the IDF are pushing into the whole of Gaza now, and obvious next step is to control it, move out the population and annex it. | |
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| State of Palestine on 07:25 - Sep 22 with 2020 views | Zx1988 |
Listening to R4 this morning, the Zionists are apopleptic about it.
If nothing else, that'll do for me. | |
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| State of Palestine on 07:32 - Sep 22 with 1986 views | redrickstuhaart |
| State of Palestine on 07:25 - Sep 22 by Zx1988 |
Listening to R4 this morning, the Zionists are apopleptic about it.
If nothing else, that'll do for me. |
I think people keep brushing aside and underestimating the whole west bank thing here as well.
Consistently, over many years, Israel has been actively and cynically pushing into areas where palestinians have lived for a very long time and bulldozing their homes whilst making "settlements". This is all recognsied worldwide as illegal and obnoxious, but no one has actually done anything about it. Now they are plainly going to do the same thing to Gaza, on steroids.
This declaration is very belatedly saying to Israel- "No- thats not yours, stop it". It wont have that effect, but it marks our position on it very clearly.
Of course, if you displace people violently from their long time homes and communities, it is difficult to see how you avoid a vicious cycle of violence and people who feel they have nothing to lose. Its a recruiting dream for organisations like Hamas. [Post edited 22 Sep 7:32]
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| State of Palestine on 07:43 - Sep 22 with 1920 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| State of Palestine on 00:29 - Sep 22 by KingsCrossBlue |
Nice to see historically accurate posts, without the normal pile on. I don’t normally post, but my wife is a Jew. She has several Hebrew tattoos of old poetry and Yiddish slang. In the last three weeks she has been spat at twice and punched in the face. She’s not Jewish, just born a Jew but wants to celebrate her heritage. Shes not alone, there are a lot of folk in the same boat. The situation is nuts, we all know Gaza is horrendous, but this decision by starmer is difficult to swallow. I think a previous poster alluded to it - but no other Middle Eastern country wants it recognised or take refugees / provide aid. Oct 7th isn’t a justification for killing children, but you can’t ever, ever help hamas via the backdoor |
I am very sorry for those crimes being committed against your wife.
Is it accurate that no other Middle Eastern country wants Palestine to be recognised as a country? If they don't want to take refugees, there may be many reasons for that and the same is clearly true of us as a country (which is very sad). I would say there are about three or four countries in the world where refugees are clearly welcome and Turkey is on the doorstep of the Middle East.
EDIT: Is this map wrong? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestine-recognition-map-u It shows all Middle Eastern countries apart from Israel recognising Palestine as a country. [Post edited 22 Sep 7:48]
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| State of Palestine on 07:49 - Sep 22 with 1893 views | redrickstuhaart |
| State of Palestine on 07:43 - Sep 22 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I am very sorry for those crimes being committed against your wife.
Is it accurate that no other Middle Eastern country wants Palestine to be recognised as a country? If they don't want to take refugees, there may be many reasons for that and the same is clearly true of us as a country (which is very sad). I would say there are about three or four countries in the world where refugees are clearly welcome and Turkey is on the doorstep of the Middle East.
EDIT: Is this map wrong? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestine-recognition-map-u It shows all Middle Eastern countries apart from Israel recognising Palestine as a country. [Post edited 22 Sep 7:48]
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I believe most of the middle east has recognised Palestine. | | | |
| State of Palestine on 07:56 - Sep 22 with 1848 views | noggin |
| State of Palestine on 07:43 - Sep 22 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I am very sorry for those crimes being committed against your wife.
Is it accurate that no other Middle Eastern country wants Palestine to be recognised as a country? If they don't want to take refugees, there may be many reasons for that and the same is clearly true of us as a country (which is very sad). I would say there are about three or four countries in the world where refugees are clearly welcome and Turkey is on the doorstep of the Middle East.
EDIT: Is this map wrong? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestine-recognition-map-u It shows all Middle Eastern countries apart from Israel recognising Palestine as a country. [Post edited 22 Sep 7:48]
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There should be no Palestinian refugees. It's not like they want to leave their homes and lands. Forcing civilians from their homes, by force, is illegal. |  |
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| State of Palestine on 07:57 - Sep 22 with 1841 views | NthQldITFC |
It's a long overdue if symbolic step towards* recognising the equality** of a long-oppressed, disenfranchised, murdered and dispossessed group of our fellow human beings.
It's also a way of trying to combat the creeping normalisation of ethnic cleansing and genocide in some Western media and many Western minds.
* only towards, not even close to all the way there.
** just plain, basic, human equality. |  |
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| State of Palestine on 07:58 - Sep 22 with 1827 views | buoyant |
| State of Palestine on 00:29 - Sep 22 by KingsCrossBlue |
Nice to see historically accurate posts, without the normal pile on. I don’t normally post, but my wife is a Jew. She has several Hebrew tattoos of old poetry and Yiddish slang. In the last three weeks she has been spat at twice and punched in the face. She’s not Jewish, just born a Jew but wants to celebrate her heritage. Shes not alone, there are a lot of folk in the same boat. The situation is nuts, we all know Gaza is horrendous, but this decision by starmer is difficult to swallow. I think a previous poster alluded to it - but no other Middle Eastern country wants it recognised or take refugees / provide aid. Oct 7th isn’t a justification for killing children, but you can’t ever, ever help hamas via the backdoor |
It's an interesting point about the timing of the recognition of Palestine as a state but would it have mattered when it was?
For example if it had happened decades ago would the same people be making the same objections or is this another example of an issue being weaponised by an inflammatory media? |  |
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| State of Palestine on 08:01 - Sep 22 with 1810 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| State of Palestine on 07:56 - Sep 22 by noggin |
There should be no Palestinian refugees. It's not like they want to leave their homes and lands. Forcing civilians from their homes, by force, is illegal. |
I agree. There should be no need for refugees nor asylum seekers at all. However, they do exist and countries generally should accept them and in a much fairer share than the world currently does.
I did think that argument might be why countries in the Middle East not wanting to take them could be accurate. However, in the context of the statement that they do not want Palestine recognised as a country (which appears flatly untrue), I am not sure the statement is correct anyway. | |
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