| Comrade Corbyn at it again 08:06 - Mar 15 with 12373 views | artsbossbeard |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-43410824
Scroll down to The Sun's front page offering.
Fancying needing actual evidence to form a decision on things, it's 2018 for Gods sake, all you really need is a pitchfork. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:08 - Mar 15 with 2705 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:03 - Mar 15 by chicoazul |
you have to remember who you are talking to. He'll be lecturing us all about Russian money in London next and how that is all George Osborbne's fault.
Back to the OP though, anyone taking a bit of time to sift through the available evidence - and we have seen from this thread alone plenty of people in Parliament have - would see there is no need to look for some sort of third party adjudication on this matter. Corbyn & Milne's hate for Blair has leaked through once again. They really are going to screw this country up when they win in 4 years. |
Although attacking Milne seems to be rather letting Corbyn off the hook. He is, after all, his master's voice.
What's the betting that McDonnell has judged the public and political opinion and decides it would be better to throw Milne under a bus to spare the dear leader?
Something has to give as it looks like Labour will lose their Shadow Defence Secretary before the weekend.
edit. Scrub that last line. It looks like the shadow cabinet are now dictating policy to the leader.
[Post edited 15 Mar 2018 9:11]
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:09 - Mar 15 with 2703 views | BackToRussia |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 08:55 - Mar 15 by artsbossbeard |
OPCW are the gold standard of all things chemical warfare, let's get their view before we start hurling people out of the country.
Let's be honest, we all know the score here, however, what's wrong with getting things shipshape and correct prior to further action?
When it does land in Putin's court, we've got him by the short & curlies surely? |
Exactly. Putin has form for getting off things. Let's actually nail them for once.
By the way. Let's play a fun game. Let's actually read corbyns statement and say how it's worthy of derision rather than posting videos of Ken Livingstone witter on about some old b0llocks.
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:09 - Mar 15 with 2698 views | No9 |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:05 - Mar 15 by chicoazul |
The Russians havent abided by international law either because they killed someone on British soil with a nerve agent. Or did you not notice? |
& you sir are ignoring how lax the UK authorities have been in dealing with the Russians |  | | |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:13 - Mar 15 with 2680 views | BloomBlue |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:02 - Mar 15 by No9 |
" the government did provide sufficient evidence"
NOT according to late night media - after the comics went to press
Apparently the government have not abided by international law in terms of time frame & have not yet - alleged
& have not provided any evidence including the basic chemical footprint - alleged
The government have said they will now submit this to the OPCW |
So as a non expert I can give Russia's answer now 'it's not ours'
That's why it's pointless to even give it to them we already now their answer.
They've used nerve agents before on foreign soil even though they've claimed they don't have nerve agents.
They are plently of murders in prison who claimed they never murdered |  | | |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:15 - Mar 15 with 2672 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 08:49 - Mar 15 by GlasgowBlue |
Instead of nit picking about a poor choice of words made when speaking about Caroline Lucas, perhaps you will address the point made that just about everyone other than George Galloway and Ken Livingstone have concluded that the government did provide sufficient evidence. |
Seriously, can you point me to this evidence if it is more than just the nature of yhe toxin ? I am more than happy to be convinced it was the front runner in the market, but it will require more than " the man from Porton Down says so." |  |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:16 - Mar 15 with 2674 views | factual_blue |
And a village green. |  |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:17 - Mar 15 with 2663 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 08:51 - Mar 15 by Steve_M |
Well quite, there are enormous and fundamental differences between the two cases.
And Freedman is someone who knows what he's talking about, one of the most interesting people I follow on Twitter. |
But he agrees with Corbyn on the need to independently verify before acting. | |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:18 - Mar 15 with 2663 views | No9 |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:09 - Mar 15 by BackToRussia |
Exactly. Putin has form for getting off things. Let's actually nail them for once.
By the way. Let's play a fun game. Let's actually read corbyns statement and say how it's worthy of derision rather than posting videos of Ken Livingstone witter on about some old b0llocks.
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never let facts get in the way of Glasgow's politicking. | | | |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:18 - Mar 15 with 2662 views | braveblue |
And as a card carrying member Corbyn will fall in line. If it was the USA he would be shouting from the rooftops. | | | |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:18 - Mar 15 with 2662 views | factual_blue |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 08:36 - Mar 15 by BlueBadger |
So, which private company owns and runs MI6? |
Let's hope it's not capita.
Or serco.
Or g4s
Or atos
Or accenture
Or pwc
Or cap gemini
Or bt | |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:21 - Mar 15 with 2648 views | No9 |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:13 - Mar 15 by BloomBlue |
So as a non expert I can give Russia's answer now 'it's not ours'
That's why it's pointless to even give it to them we already now their answer.
They've used nerve agents before on foreign soil even though they've claimed they don't have nerve agents.
They are plently of murders in prison who claimed they never murdered |
& according to the morning TV programme there have been hundreds of people hanged in the UK for crimes they never committed.
My view is simple - if you don't want to rely on evidence you are going back to the days of mob rule | | | |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:22 - Mar 15 with 2642 views | factual_blue |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 08:33 - Mar 15 by BloomBlue |
We have the evidence but Corbyn would rather trust Russia more than he does the British people who are telling him. That's typical Corbyn.
He even tried to claim (with no eveidence) that lack of funding by the Gov was part of the cause .
One step forward two steps back by Corbyn
I guess if MI6 was nationalized he would believe them |
It was nationalised when Michael Foot was PM
(one of mr toilet's finest) | |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:27 - Mar 15 with 2632 views | GunnsAirkick |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 08:36 - Mar 15 by GlasgowBlue |
He went beyond doubting the evidence provided to the house. For the second time this week he used a chemical attack on British soil to try and score a couple of cheap political points. He made the worst Prime Minister in living memory look like a Stateswoman.
His back benchers are against him
His Shadow Foreign Secretary is contradicting him and showing far more backbone than he is
His Shadow Defence Secretary
Even the Greens Caroline Lucas is supporting the UK Government on this and I don't believe she did over Iraq.
Nicola Sturgeon
And when you lose the Guardian, just think about that, the Guardian FFS
You can conclude that the evidence provided by the security services is sound enough to satisfy a broad coalition of all sides in the house.
Still, at least he has Galloway and Ken Livingstone in his corner.
[Post edited 15 Mar 2018 8:50]
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I don't disagree with his sentiment that we should be getting unequivocal evidence of state involvement, mistakes have been made before so I don't see what is so wrong about that. He's not alone either, those "Putin Puppets" in France want the same.
However, I agree on the political point scoring comment. His point on Russian oligarchs was fair, but there is a time and a place and that wasn't it. The point about cuts was just stupid and again there is a time and a place. He just gave the Tories a load of cannon fodder for the 10 o'clock news with the timing of his comments and made himself look like a bit of a d**k. |  | | |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:52 - Mar 15 with 2594 views | BlueBadger |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:18 - Mar 15 by No9 |
never let facts get in the way of Glasgow's politicking. |
Never really one for self-awareness, are you Fredders? |  |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:54 - Mar 15 with 2591 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:27 - Mar 15 by GunnsAirkick |
I don't disagree with his sentiment that we should be getting unequivocal evidence of state involvement, mistakes have been made before so I don't see what is so wrong about that. He's not alone either, those "Putin Puppets" in France want the same.
However, I agree on the political point scoring comment. His point on Russian oligarchs was fair, but there is a time and a place and that wasn't it. The point about cuts was just stupid and again there is a time and a place. He just gave the Tories a load of cannon fodder for the 10 o'clock news with the timing of his comments and made himself look like a bit of a d**k. |
I think the Guardian got it spot on when they talk about his eagerness to exonerate Russia. It fits with the narrative that his involvement in the Stop the War Coalition was another example of being against the West rather than for stopping war.
“The leader of the opposition’s response to the prime minister was dispiriting. Jeremy Corbyn invited Mrs May to acquiesce to Russia’s requests that a sample be sent to Moscow for verification — on the supposition that the Kremlin might then honestly try to match it with its own stores. He sounded too keen to find another explanation for the use of the nerve agent novichok in the attack.
There are many reasons to be wary whenever governments ask for cross-party support. Oppositions have a duty to challenge prime ministers in the most critical circumstances. Nations should not act in haste over such issues. But Mr Corbyn’s reluctance to share Mrs May’s basic analysis of the Salisbury incident made him look eager to exonerate a hostile power. In the coming days the diplomatic clash with Moscow is sure to escalate. There is likely to be a campaign of obfuscation and misinformation directed at British audiences. That is the Kremlin’s well-established modus operandi. When matters of national security come to the fore, governments do not acquire a licence to act without check or criticism.
But it is also vital to keep sight of the facts. Britain has been targeted with a chemical weapon and it is almost certain that there is only one plausible culprit with the means and the motive. The prime minister might not have as many tools for retaliation, unilateral or international, as she would like. But she has judged correctly that the time for equivocation, given the sinister nature of Mr Putin’s regime, is over.” | |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:55 - Mar 15 with 2587 views | No9 |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:27 - Mar 15 by GunnsAirkick |
I don't disagree with his sentiment that we should be getting unequivocal evidence of state involvement, mistakes have been made before so I don't see what is so wrong about that. He's not alone either, those "Putin Puppets" in France want the same.
However, I agree on the political point scoring comment. His point on Russian oligarchs was fair, but there is a time and a place and that wasn't it. The point about cuts was just stupid and again there is a time and a place. He just gave the Tories a load of cannon fodder for the 10 o'clock news with the timing of his comments and made himself look like a bit of a d**k. |
I agree with ylou sentiments but what I find extremely disturbing is that the UK media & the politico's, instead of looking at the real problems with the power & freedom Russians have in London are nitpicking over what the leader of the opposition says - then often misreporting, rather than the fact we as a nation have a very , very serious problem in our country and we don't have the resources to deal with it.
It really is just diversion tactics away from the seriousness of the issues before us. | | | |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:57 - Mar 15 with 2579 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:52 - Mar 15 by BlueBadger |
Never really one for self-awareness, are you Fredders? |
In fairness he hasn't blamed Thatcher for this yet. Still. it is early. | |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:57 - Mar 15 with 2580 views | Guthrum |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:21 - Mar 15 by No9 |
& according to the morning TV programme there have been hundreds of people hanged in the UK for crimes they never committed.
My view is simple - if you don't want to rely on evidence you are going back to the days of mob rule |
Altho most of those occurred prior to the existence of modern standards of due process (i.e. before the latter part of the 19th century) and well before the development of modern forensic and scientific evidence gathering.
Many of the latter-day controversial executions (e.g. Ellis, Bentley) turned on questions of ethics and responsibility, not proof of a crime having been committed. Timothy Evans would never have been convicted with the application of modern forensic standards. |  |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 10:03 - Mar 15 with 2563 views | No9 |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:57 - Mar 15 by Guthrum |
Altho most of those occurred prior to the existence of modern standards of due process (i.e. before the latter part of the 19th century) and well before the development of modern forensic and scientific evidence gathering.
Many of the latter-day controversial executions (e.g. Ellis, Bentley) turned on questions of ethics and responsibility, not proof of a crime having been committed. Timothy Evans would never have been convicted with the application of modern forensic standards. |
Not according to these two barristers
In there investigations they have turned up a lot of evidence to show that some (more than a few) of these cases the police fiddled the evidence.
Wasn't Timothy Evans hanged on the basis of a false confession ?
The police were allowed to do more or less what they wanted well into to 50's | | | |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 10:28 - Mar 15 with 2537 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:18 - Mar 15 by factual_blue |
Let's hope it's not capita.
Or serco.
Or g4s
Or atos
Or accenture
Or pwc
Or cap gemini
Or bt |
What’s wrong with Accenture? |  | | |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 10:55 - Mar 15 with 2516 views | Guthrum |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 10:03 - Mar 15 by No9 |
Not according to these two barristers
In there investigations they have turned up a lot of evidence to show that some (more than a few) of these cases the police fiddled the evidence.
Wasn't Timothy Evans hanged on the basis of a false confession ?
The police were allowed to do more or less what they wanted well into to 50's |
Altho with the absence of modern forensics - and consequent reliance on confessions - there was far more leeway for that.
With proper forensic investigation, Evans' confession would never have stood up in court. And if presented as it was, nobody would have believed it without 1950s exaggerated respect for the police. | |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 11:09 - Mar 15 with 2499 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 09:09 - Mar 15 by BackToRussia |
Exactly. Putin has form for getting off things. Let's actually nail them for once.
By the way. Let's play a fun game. Let's actually read corbyns statement and say how it's worthy of derision rather than posting videos of Ken Livingstone witter on about some old b0llocks.
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You are being extremely generous to Jezza and by only printing the words you are not adding any context.
But the words firstly and then the context.
As Gunners has said, he was needlessly political with regards to bringing up cuts to the diplomatic service. It was unnecessary political point scoring at a time when the HOC should have been coming together after a chemical attack on British soil. Again, Gunners mentions that he did the same just two days earlier with regards to money from oligarchs. A legitimate debate to be had, but not when the world is watching. It shows that he cares more about scoring political points than he does about the people of Salisbury.
He also repeated Putin’s line, virtually word perfect, regarding handing over a sample to Russia to conduct their own tests.
After the debate had been concluded he then released a statement through his spokesman, the Stalin and Putin apologist Seamus Milne, casting doubt on the findings of our security services because nearly twenty years ago Tony Blair put a spin on WMD’s.
So we have a British politician attempting to score cheap political points when the world is watching to see if we are united, peddled the same line as Putin, and then cast doubt on whether our security services could be relied upon to be either reliable or truthful.
Now the context. We can leave aside the IRA support, the friends of Hamas, the blind eye to anti Semitism, the Stop the War coalition supporting the killing of British troops. We have debated that many times over. Let’s just put yesterday’s speech in context of his time as a Parliamentarian.
This is the man who voted against the Anglo/Irish Agreement because it didn’t deliver the aims of the Provisional IRA. That is a matter of public record.
This is the man who, along with John McDonnell, defended in parliament the war crimes of Slobodan Milosevic. Again this is in Hansard.
This is the man who, over 30 years as a parliamentarian, has voted against nearly every piece of anti-terror legislation including prescribing Al Qaeda as a Terror organisation.
That is the context you have to put into his speech of yesterday and Monday. | |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 11:13 - Mar 15 with 2484 views | JohnTy |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 11:09 - Mar 15 by GlasgowBlue |
You are being extremely generous to Jezza and by only printing the words you are not adding any context.
But the words firstly and then the context.
As Gunners has said, he was needlessly political with regards to bringing up cuts to the diplomatic service. It was unnecessary political point scoring at a time when the HOC should have been coming together after a chemical attack on British soil. Again, Gunners mentions that he did the same just two days earlier with regards to money from oligarchs. A legitimate debate to be had, but not when the world is watching. It shows that he cares more about scoring political points than he does about the people of Salisbury.
He also repeated Putin’s line, virtually word perfect, regarding handing over a sample to Russia to conduct their own tests.
After the debate had been concluded he then released a statement through his spokesman, the Stalin and Putin apologist Seamus Milne, casting doubt on the findings of our security services because nearly twenty years ago Tony Blair put a spin on WMD’s.
So we have a British politician attempting to score cheap political points when the world is watching to see if we are united, peddled the same line as Putin, and then cast doubt on whether our security services could be relied upon to be either reliable or truthful.
Now the context. We can leave aside the IRA support, the friends of Hamas, the blind eye to anti Semitism, the Stop the War coalition supporting the killing of British troops. We have debated that many times over. Let’s just put yesterday’s speech in context of his time as a Parliamentarian.
This is the man who voted against the Anglo/Irish Agreement because it didn’t deliver the aims of the Provisional IRA. That is a matter of public record.
This is the man who, along with John McDonnell, defended in parliament the war crimes of Slobodan Milosevic. Again this is in Hansard.
This is the man who, over 30 years as a parliamentarian, has voted against nearly every piece of anti-terror legislation including prescribing Al Qaeda as a Terror organisation.
That is the context you have to put into his speech of yesterday and Monday. |
Have you ever considered applying for a job with the Daily Mail. |  | | |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 11:20 - Mar 15 with 2465 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 11:13 - Mar 15 by JohnTy |
Have you ever considered applying for a job with the Daily Mail. |
Why would I want to work for that dreadful xenophobic rag?
Have you anything insightful to offer to the debate Jonty? Feel free to dispute anything I posted above.
Although you do highlight the problem with a lot on the left. If you criticise the dear leader then you are either a Sun or Daily Mail reader. It must be hard for someone from the Corbynista Hive Mind to understand the idea of independent thought. | |
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| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 11:28 - Mar 15 with 2454 views | artsbossbeard |
| Comrade Corbyn at it again on 11:20 - Mar 15 by GlasgowBlue |
Why would I want to work for that dreadful xenophobic rag?
Have you anything insightful to offer to the debate Jonty? Feel free to dispute anything I posted above.
Although you do highlight the problem with a lot on the left. If you criticise the dear leader then you are either a Sun or Daily Mail reader. It must be hard for someone from the Corbynista Hive Mind to understand the idea of independent thought. |
save me an internet trawl here, GB.
What was The Sun's positive take on the Tories bending over backwards to garner the support of a small Northern Ireland based hate group, I mean political party?
Thanks in advance. | |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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