| Just seen this 12:23 - Mar 17 with 49767 views | RoyKeanesDog |
6 deaths at Cheltenham this year under severe suspicion of neglect.
Owners are so desperate not to lose money they make the horses race when they know there's a strong chance of them dieing. Really is a brutal 'sport'.
I just don't know how people can go there and support this cruelty for 'entertaimment' and then go home and sleep at night.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but hey I think animal cruelty should stop. |  |
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| Just seen this on 12:57 - Mar 18 with 2897 views | Benters2 |
| Just seen this on 11:59 - Mar 18 by The_Romford_Blue |
Right... you are getting confused here Libby.
I did stick to what I planned. £600 in cash and the £400 free bets. It equalled a grand. But that’s still only £600 in cash.
I returned a total loss of £100 from the week. But for the fun it brought me, I’d take a £100 loss I suppose. It’s not about the money for me.
But after studying for three months, it’s time to do something else now and leave that to one side. Do you know what? I’ll do the same next year. Same hotel, same system, same begging bank and same study. Sometimes it’ll work, sometimes it won’t. As you say, some you win, some you lose. |
How does that work if you start Uni in September? |  | | |
| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:08 - Mar 18 with 2881 views | Ryorry |
| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 12:50 - Mar 18 by buoyant |
Very interesting
"but it is not made clear how being whipped can improve a horse’s proprioceptive reflexes. Using the whip to make a horse go over a jump may presumably increase safety if it is necessary to prevent the horse injuring itself or others. However, a plausible explanation for a horse backing off a jump is that it has an adaptive motivation not to jump it, for example due to fatigue. In such cases, whipping a horse may lead to mistakes over fences they would otherwise have refused to jump, potential injury to that horse or others, and could plausibly be described as coercion. Thus preventing a horse backing off is not always necessarily a matter of increasing safety"
It has been argued that whips don't hurt and that horses run for the fun of it. That being the case then why not just ban the whip completely and let the horse be led by its reigns/rider and it can then choose its own course without provocation. |
I'm afraid I haven't had time to read the article yet, bookmarked for later, but re your comments -
A whip is important (as well as the jockey's kick) for telling a horse *exactly* when to take off for a jump - necessary for them to take the jump safely - putting in an extra short unplanned stride, or standing off the jump too far (taking off too early so the horse has an impossible width/height combo to cover), is a frequent cause of falling. The horse will hear & feel the whip, but won't be hurt by it. It acts as a signal.
Similarly, the whip is used to keep horses straight between jumps, to keep a rhythm going (in a finish it often looks as though a jock's hitting a horse when they're not) and to stop two horses coming so close together that they barge each other & become dangerously unbalanced. As I said, horses will hear & feel the whip as a touch, but won't be hurt by it, it acts as a signal. Horses hair & hides are not the same as human skin! |  |
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| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:28 - Mar 18 with 2854 views | buoyant |
| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:08 - Mar 18 by Ryorry |
I'm afraid I haven't had time to read the article yet, bookmarked for later, but re your comments -
A whip is important (as well as the jockey's kick) for telling a horse *exactly* when to take off for a jump - necessary for them to take the jump safely - putting in an extra short unplanned stride, or standing off the jump too far (taking off too early so the horse has an impossible width/height combo to cover), is a frequent cause of falling. The horse will hear & feel the whip, but won't be hurt by it. It acts as a signal.
Similarly, the whip is used to keep horses straight between jumps, to keep a rhythm going (in a finish it often looks as though a jock's hitting a horse when they're not) and to stop two horses coming so close together that they barge each other & become dangerously unbalanced. As I said, horses will hear & feel the whip as a touch, but won't be hurt by it, it acts as a signal. Horses hair & hides are not the same as human skin! |
I don't buy that I'm afraid. If they weren't deemed as a provocation or coercion then why on earth would the over use of the whip be punished? Surely it is because it means that the horse is being pushed too hard or unnecessarily which is what causes the injuries and deaths.
It really is worthy of a read [Post edited 18 Mar 2018 13:43]
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| Just seen this on 13:29 - Mar 18 with 2852 views | Ryorry |
Just as a footnote - can we bookmark this thread for future reference please? We had a very similar discussion only a week or two ago (started by same poster? iirc), and another very similar one not long before that ... and ... The GN meeting is coming up next month ..! People can in any case take my views on this thread as the ones that I hold without my having to repeat them. Unless anyone comes up with solid new evidence that makes me change my mind of course. | |
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| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:32 - Mar 18 with 2848 views | Ryorry |
| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:28 - Mar 18 by buoyant |
I don't buy that I'm afraid. If they weren't deemed as a provocation or coercion then why on earth would the over use of the whip be punished? Surely it is because it means that the horse is being pushed too hard or unnecessarily which is what causes the injuries and deaths.
It really is worthy of a read [Post edited 18 Mar 2018 13:43]
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Personally, if it weren't for the *essential* safety uses that I described, I'd actually ban the use of the whip in racing. | |
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| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:38 - Mar 18 with 2841 views | buoyant |
| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:32 - Mar 18 by Ryorry |
Personally, if it weren't for the *essential* safety uses that I described, I'd actually ban the use of the whip in racing. |
They've stopped using it in other countries | |
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| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:42 - Mar 18 with 2832 views | Radlett_blue |
| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:32 - Mar 18 by Ryorry |
Personally, if it weren't for the *essential* safety uses that I described, I'd actually ban the use of the whip in racing. |
I do find the way breaches of whip rules work rather odd. Several jockeys at Cheltenham fell foul of the rules, but any suspensions were carried forward until after the Festival. Surely, if the authorities want these rules to act as a real deterrent, the suspension should be immediate? If a jockey though he might miss out on riding the Gold Cup favourite, he might be a bit more careful on the first few days. In the same way, they fiddled with the rules on the Flat so that a jockey couldn't miss a Group 1 race as a result of a whip suspension. |  |
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| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:46 - Mar 18 with 2818 views | Ryorry |
| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:38 - Mar 18 by buoyant |
They've stopped using it in other countries |
Really? Interesting, will have a look. | |
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| Just seen this on 13:52 - Mar 18 with 2803 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Just seen this on 12:57 - Mar 18 by Benters2 |
How does that work if you start Uni in September? |
I’ll be taking the week off for Cheltenham like 99% of horse racing fans |  |
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| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:53 - Mar 18 with 2802 views | Radlett_blue |
| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:46 - Mar 18 by Ryorry |
Really? Interesting, will have a look. |
I believe Norway is the only country where use of the whip is banned. | |
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| Just seen this on 13:57 - Mar 18 with 2796 views | RoyKeanesDog |
| Just seen this on 13:52 - Mar 18 by The_Romford_Blue |
I’ll be taking the week off for Cheltenham like 99% of horse racing fans |
I really don't think 99% of horse racing fans take that week off work. | |
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| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 14:02 - Mar 18 with 2787 views | buoyant |
| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 13:53 - Mar 18 by Radlett_blue |
I believe Norway is the only country where use of the whip is banned. |
And there is no evidence that the safety of jockeys and horses has been negatively affected | |
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| Just seen this on 14:06 - Mar 18 with 2776 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Just seen this on 13:57 - Mar 18 by RoyKeanesDog |
I really don't think 99% of horse racing fans take that week off work. |
You’d be suprised | |
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| Just seen this on 14:06 - Mar 18 with 2776 views | J2BLUE |
Your numbers and facts are wrong. Go back and read what he actually wrote.
'but honestly mate the more you do stuff like this the more it comes across like you actually have a serious problem'
This forum is very anti gambling. Whenever gambling is mentioned there are several posters who start foaming at the mouth. There are also several who insist he has a problem. IIRC his dad was with him at Cheltenham for one day at least which suggests he doesn't have a problem. The likes of you and Bluebell seem to have some sort of emotional investment in making him believe he's addicted. For Bluebell it might be her son's addiction. For you, working with youngsters. All coming from a reasonable place (perhaps I was slightly harsh on BB yesterday). You've all made your point though so perhaps it's time to give it a rest? A lot of your own person issue with it seems to be that you didn't have the money to 'waste' at his age. Sounds bitter mate. I didn't either and i'm quite jealous of him as well, the ****.
This campaign is getting nasty now. Again, I realise most you know someone affected and don't want him to get addicted. That's very admirable. Most of you aren't gamblers. Rommers knows his own mind. His parents will know what he's doing. Ryorry runs a racing forum and has vast experience of betting. She bans anyone with a problem. People might not believe it and I have no proof but I don't need it. I fully believe her. Anyone who knows her well on here will know it's true. She sees no problem with Rommers. I'm also experienced with gambling. I've been where Rommers is. I used to do football previews for other forums. I spent ages on Betfair forums years ago. I've seen addiction and I know the characteristics of addiction. Find me one example of an addict like Rommers. They don't exist. No addict spends hours doing previews and studying form etc.
Rommers put that effort in for the enjoyment of others. People have then attacked him for it. When he says he's tired of it I know exactly what he means. It's a pretty crap addiction when you want to take a break from it. After the international break he'll probably be back betting and doing a preview for the national. Everyone will then jump on him for being addicted while ignoring the fact he said he would have a break and will have done. This might have all started with the best of intention buts it's pretty much a cyber bullying campaign now. You've all made your point, he knows there is plenty of support IF it ever becomes an issue. Hopefully in time he'll become like me and just not give a fook what you lot think 
BTW i'm not suggesting people shouldn't debate the merits of racing. I'm just talking about the addiction stuff. |  |
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| Just seen this on 14:09 - Mar 18 with 2767 views | J2BLUE |
| Just seen this on 13:57 - Mar 18 by RoyKeanesDog |
I really don't think 99% of horse racing fans take that week off work. |
99% is too high but you'd be surprised at the number. Everywhere i've ever worked the racing fans have been off that week. One guy left off at 13:00 each day for those 4 days using 2 days holiday. I've booked that week off before purely for Cheltenham. | |
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| Just seen this on 14:13 - Mar 18 with 2750 views | RoyKeanesDog |
No I wouldn't. I guess a lot of people do, but to say 1 on 100 people who bet on Cheltenham take a whole week off for it is just a lie. | |
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| Just seen this on 14:16 - Mar 18 with 2741 views | J2BLUE |
| Just seen this on 14:13 - Mar 18 by RoyKeanesDog |
No I wouldn't. I guess a lot of people do, but to say 1 on 100 people who bet on Cheltenham take a whole week off for it is just a lie. |
I think he means proper racing fans. People whose first passion is horse racing, not anyone who has a bet on it. | |
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| Just seen this on 14:48 - Mar 18 with 2694 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Just seen this on 14:13 - Mar 18 by RoyKeanesDog |
No I wouldn't. I guess a lot of people do, but to say 1 on 100 people who bet on Cheltenham take a whole week off for it is just a lie. |
Not just anyone who bets on Cheltenham. Because lots of people do that.
But the proper racing fans who have that as their number one passion - like myself - 99% will be off for Cheltenham. You can believe me or not, that’s the truth.
I’ll be booking my hotel for the week for next year in a few weeks time. I’ll make sure the uni know I have a prior holiday already booked. It’s not going to be an issue. Cheltenham is a one off yearly extravaganza. It’s not like anything else. | |
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| on 14:54 - Mar 18 with 2682 views | _ |
| Just seen this on 14:48 - Mar 18 by The_Romford_Blue |
Not just anyone who bets on Cheltenham. Because lots of people do that.
But the proper racing fans who have that as their number one passion - like myself - 99% will be off for Cheltenham. You can believe me or not, that’s the truth.
I’ll be booking my hotel for the week for next year in a few weeks time. I’ll make sure the uni know I have a prior holiday already booked. It’s not going to be an issue. Cheltenham is a one off yearly extravaganza. It’s not like anything else. |
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| Just seen this on 14:58 - Mar 18 with 2677 views | RoyKeanesDog |
| Just seen this on 14:48 - Mar 18 by The_Romford_Blue |
Not just anyone who bets on Cheltenham. Because lots of people do that.
But the proper racing fans who have that as their number one passion - like myself - 99% will be off for Cheltenham. You can believe me or not, that’s the truth.
I’ll be booking my hotel for the week for next year in a few weeks time. I’ll make sure the uni know I have a prior holiday already booked. It’s not going to be an issue. Cheltenham is a one off yearly extravaganza. It’s not like anything else. |
Evidence?
What if you have exams that week mate? | |
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| Just seen this on 14:58 - Mar 18 with 2677 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Just seen this on 14:06 - Mar 18 by J2BLUE |
Your numbers and facts are wrong. Go back and read what he actually wrote.
'but honestly mate the more you do stuff like this the more it comes across like you actually have a serious problem'
This forum is very anti gambling. Whenever gambling is mentioned there are several posters who start foaming at the mouth. There are also several who insist he has a problem. IIRC his dad was with him at Cheltenham for one day at least which suggests he doesn't have a problem. The likes of you and Bluebell seem to have some sort of emotional investment in making him believe he's addicted. For Bluebell it might be her son's addiction. For you, working with youngsters. All coming from a reasonable place (perhaps I was slightly harsh on BB yesterday). You've all made your point though so perhaps it's time to give it a rest? A lot of your own person issue with it seems to be that you didn't have the money to 'waste' at his age. Sounds bitter mate. I didn't either and i'm quite jealous of him as well, the ****.
This campaign is getting nasty now. Again, I realise most you know someone affected and don't want him to get addicted. That's very admirable. Most of you aren't gamblers. Rommers knows his own mind. His parents will know what he's doing. Ryorry runs a racing forum and has vast experience of betting. She bans anyone with a problem. People might not believe it and I have no proof but I don't need it. I fully believe her. Anyone who knows her well on here will know it's true. She sees no problem with Rommers. I'm also experienced with gambling. I've been where Rommers is. I used to do football previews for other forums. I spent ages on Betfair forums years ago. I've seen addiction and I know the characteristics of addiction. Find me one example of an addict like Rommers. They don't exist. No addict spends hours doing previews and studying form etc.
Rommers put that effort in for the enjoyment of others. People have then attacked him for it. When he says he's tired of it I know exactly what he means. It's a pretty crap addiction when you want to take a break from it. After the international break he'll probably be back betting and doing a preview for the national. Everyone will then jump on him for being addicted while ignoring the fact he said he would have a break and will have done. This might have all started with the best of intention buts it's pretty much a cyber bullying campaign now. You've all made your point, he knows there is plenty of support IF it ever becomes an issue. Hopefully in time he'll become like me and just not give a fook what you lot think
BTW i'm not suggesting people shouldn't debate the merits of racing. I'm just talking about the addiction stuff. |
Great post J2.
If it weren’t for the nice PMs from people or those who read my racing previews and comment on there, I’d have given up posting anything remotely gambling related a long time ago from here. Which is a shame. Not just for me but for non racing fans who will throw a tenner on my national horse like last year. I didn’t have to post that thread onto here. For the amount of time I study the form (something I love doing), it’s a real shame it’s now being used against me as a way to attack.
When people reply with ‘oh well you just a grand in four days, you are addicted’, what the hell can I do? That number as a loss was just a made up nonsense to prove his point.
I’ve already said I may come back for the National. For that meeting. If not, it’ll be straight through to May 6 for the 2000 Guineas at Newmarket - the first flat Classic of the year. I’ll still watch racing until then. I just won’t be studying any form or gambling until then. I need to keep some sort of eye on it anyway - because I lead a forums handicap tipping comp which ends in April. I’m currently a 12/1 winner ahead with a few weeks to go so need to keep that lead up.
I think it reflects far worse on Libby, BB, etc that it turns into my gambling on threads like these. It always has to come back to me. I wish it didn’t tbh and it’s deidnitely becoming a campaign. | |
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| Just seen this on 15:00 - Mar 18 with 2670 views | RoyKeanesDog |
| Just seen this on 17:25 - Mar 17 by The_Romford_Blue |
‘Severe suspicion of neglect’ As per usual, you chat bollox when it comes to racing.
The BHA are investigating. 1 happened on the flat and 3 happened on the last race yesterday. That last race should have less runners in it. 24 for a 2m Chase is too many.
As for the national, The last time a horse dies in that race was 2012.
I won’t be making another comment on the thread but I just had to comment here. Your last part of your post makes you just as preachy and close minded as Callis. |
'I won’t be making another comment on the thread but I just had to comment here.'
LOL | |
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| Just seen this on 15:01 - Mar 18 with 2669 views | The_Romford_Blue |
I chose not to interact with you anymore on these threads Libby. I think a few of your comments have been deliberately conniving/spiteful. Whether that’s been your intent or not, I cba with it anymore. Like on vegan threads with Callis, I just wont interact anymore with you on these.
You are obsessed with my gambling more than I am or anyone who KNOWS ME IN REAL LIFE. | |
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| Just seen this on 15:02 - Mar 18 with 2666 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Just seen this on 15:00 - Mar 18 by RoyKeanesDog |
'I won’t be making another comment on the thread but I just had to comment here.'
LOL |
Well as usual, the thread went from horse racing to specifically about my gambling.
Why is that always the case? You lot are obsessed that’s why. If I ever left this place, you lot wouldn’t know what to do with yourselves anymore. Bless yas. | |
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| Just seen this on 15:06 - Mar 18 with 2656 views | RoyKeanesDog |
| Just seen this on 15:02 - Mar 18 by The_Romford_Blue |
Well as usual, the thread went from horse racing to specifically about my gambling.
Why is that always the case? You lot are obsessed that’s why. If I ever left this place, you lot wouldn’t know what to do with yourselves anymore. Bless yas. |
You seem to think that everybody on here is hanging on to your every word, which isn't the case.
The reason why you are often the centre of conversation is because you reply to every post. | |
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