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What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 18:37 - Mar 18 by A90sblue
But if the horse didn't want to run it wouldn't, a number have refused in the past. How many horses also carry on jumping and running once the jockey has fallen off, they enjoy it!
"How many horses also carry on jumping and running once the jockey has fallen off, they enjoy it"
That's been said a few times in this thread now yet nobody can argue against it....
it's really the end of the discussion, in terms of horses being forced to race anyway.
1
What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 20:12 - Mar 18 with 2935 views
What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 20:04 - Mar 18 by RoyKeanesDog
They love it don't they.
Anybody advocating horse racing is pure scum.
Can someone please pitch my question to RKD as I assumed he has me on Div. I’m not on the wind up, I’m genuinely curious that if he feels so strong about horse racing and defending animal rights in this case I may be close to winning him over as an ally to further animal causes due to the fact dairy and meat agriculture makes horse racing look like a fun walk in the park, which would make me very pleased if he starts to see where I’ve been coming from.
My question was...
“I'm still more interested in why horse racing is bad but it's okay to eat horse meat personally. Genuine question. How do you feel one is wrong but the other is okay? More animals fall victim to cruelty and grim deaths in the meat and dairy industry than horses in the horse industry. I just can't make sense of this thread at all.”
If anyone can C+P this post RKD’s way it’d be much appreciated, cheers.
What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 20:30 - Mar 18 by monytowbray
Can someone please pitch my question to RKD as I assumed he has me on Div. I’m not on the wind up, I’m genuinely curious that if he feels so strong about horse racing and defending animal rights in this case I may be close to winning him over as an ally to further animal causes due to the fact dairy and meat agriculture makes horse racing look like a fun walk in the park, which would make me very pleased if he starts to see where I’ve been coming from.
My question was...
“I'm still more interested in why horse racing is bad but it's okay to eat horse meat personally. Genuine question. How do you feel one is wrong but the other is okay? More animals fall victim to cruelty and grim deaths in the meat and dairy industry than horses in the horse industry. I just can't make sense of this thread at all.”
If anyone can C+P this post RKD’s way it’d be much appreciated, cheers.
This is for RKD from callis.
‘Can someone please pitch my question to RKD as I assumed he has me on Div. I’m not on the wind up, I’m genuinely curious that if he feels so strong about horse racing and defending animal rights in this case I may be close to winning him over as an ally to further animal causes due to the fact dairy and meat agriculture makes horse racing look like a fun walk in the park, which would make me very pleased if he starts to see where I’ve been coming from.
My question was...
“I'm still more interested in why horse racing is bad but it's okay to eat horse meat personally. Genuine question. How do you feel one is wrong but the other is okay? More animals fall victim to cruelty and grim deaths in the meat and dairy industry than horses in the horse industry. I just can't make sense of this thread at all.”
If anyone can C+P this post RKD’s way it’d be much appreciated, cheers.’
What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 20:30 - Mar 18 by The_Romford_Blue
It’s also offensive saying anybody that supports racing is scum and anybody that goes to the tracks agrees with animal cruelty.
Mate, if you think this thread is driving you up the wall try being me! All of this is the same logic and reasoning I don’t eat meat. It’s like veganism is something so many more people on here who have previously called me a nut job agree with me in principle but for some reason put a defensive barrier up when it comes to food.
What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 20:31 - Mar 18 by The_Romford_Blue
This is for RKD from callis.
‘Can someone please pitch my question to RKD as I assumed he has me on Div. I’m not on the wind up, I’m genuinely curious that if he feels so strong about horse racing and defending animal rights in this case I may be close to winning him over as an ally to further animal causes due to the fact dairy and meat agriculture makes horse racing look like a fun walk in the park, which would make me very pleased if he starts to see where I’ve been coming from.
My question was...
“I'm still more interested in why horse racing is bad but it's okay to eat horse meat personally. Genuine question. How do you feel one is wrong but the other is okay? More animals fall victim to cruelty and grim deaths in the meat and dairy industry than horses in the horse industry. I just can't make sense of this thread at all.”
If anyone can C+P this post RKD’s way it’d be much appreciated, cheers.’
What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 20:33 - Mar 18 by monytowbray
Mate, if you think this thread is driving you up the wall try being me! All of this is the same logic and reasoning I don’t eat meat. It’s like veganism is something so many more people on here who have previously called me a nut job agree with me in principle but for some reason put a defensive barrier up when it comes to food.
After your first post on this thread ‘But on a serious note I have no idea why anyone would want to support anything that hurts any living creature’, I am suprised how much we’ve agreed on over the next 11 pages.
Especially as I spent 4 pages effectively being told what a disgrace my life is by Libby.
Your comment about the treatment of racehorses and anyone so massively against it should focus their attention to farming for food products was a good one. You were bang on there that people like PETA focus so much attention on racing but are quite happy to ignore the mistreatment of animals elsewhere. Their actions in particular have been nothing short of a disgrace this week with the festival. But I’d expect nothing else from them. Horrible firm who care more about their agendas than the animals they claim to care about.
What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 20:37 - Mar 18 by vapour_trail
If RKD doesn’t want to have anything to do with you, you should probably wind your neck in or you might come across a bit stalkerish.
The thread and topic of conversation was a good one but it all went downhill when he made up the line in his OP ‘strong suspicion of neglect’. Completely made that up from nowhere.
They are investigating the deaths (as expected) but nothing about neglect at all.
What's your source? Going to need more than some random online posting they aren't needed. If someone said the same about phytonutrients they'd be laughed off the internet. The truth is that the subject is way too big to get a true and completely accurate answer. The only honest answer is that neither of us, nor anyone else, really knows. We just have to pick a side and hope we're right.
I believe most plant based omega 3 is ALA unless you take a krill supplement. Omega 3 is an essential fat and better used in the EPA/DHA form from animal products.
We've done this to death. Largely I agree with you. People would do much better replacing a significant number of their animal food products with plant foods. A few eggs, some decent yoghurt and a bit of meat a couple of times a week from quality sources adds quality nutrients to a diet and makes it healthier in my opinion.
The issue with scientific studies, is that they tend to be for specific things.
You can find meta-analysis of various diet studies, and these are probably best bet for informed current knowledge on diets and health wrt comparisons.
What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 20:38 - Mar 18 by The_Romford_Blue
After your first post on this thread ‘But on a serious note I have no idea why anyone would want to support anything that hurts any living creature’, I am suprised how much we’ve agreed on over the next 11 pages.
Especially as I spent 4 pages effectively being told what a disgrace my life is by Libby.
Your comment about the treatment of racehorses and anyone so massively against it should focus their attention to farming for food products was a good one. You were bang on there that people like PETA focus so much attention on racing but are quite happy to ignore the mistreatment of animals elsewhere. Their actions in particular have been nothing short of a disgrace this week with the festival. But I’d expect nothing else from them. Horrible firm who care more about their agendas than the animals they claim to care about.
In defence of activists in this case (and I hate PETA as an organisation so I’ll address this as activists in general) many are active in so many other areas, multiple at a time. Choosing not to consume meat is as much a form of every day activism as protesting vocally. I’d safely assume many calling out horse racing have done and are doing much more protesting.
FWIW, I don’t agree with racing, and I’m not gonna get into ANOTHER debate over it, but I find horse racing so much less offensive than people choosing to blindly consume animal products. Many of the points here about those horses having a great life are true, even if they fundamentally risk their well being to race and the act itself of forcing them to do so being debatably cruel. If many of the chickens, cows and pigs slaughtered in their billions every year for food had social awareness and the ability to communicate I’d imagine they’d beg for the life of a race horse over the conveyer belt reality they faced.
As I said, I agree with the original sentiment in the post, but I’m so urked the same people who called me a close minded delusional brainwashed preachy nut job can go full circle so quickly whilst remaining so blind to their own choices. I really do hope that can change based on this thread but my expectations for TWTD on the most part are low based on previous experiences.
What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 20:40 - Mar 18 by The_Romford_Blue
The thread and topic of conversation was a good one but it all went downhill when he made up the line in his OP ‘strong suspicion of neglect’. Completely made that up from nowhere.
They are investigating the deaths (as expected) but nothing about neglect at all.
From that first post of his and that exact comment "strong suspicion of neglect", it's actually been fascinating, but also alarming, to see how very clever use of emotive language without a shred of supporting evidence can be used to so easily sway people, particularly when there's a mountain of evidence opposing that quoted comment, available at the click of a mouse. Bit of an insight as to how politicians get away with it.
I genuinely wish he had come up with proper arguments instead. Racing does need scrutiny by people who are prepared to look at it thoroughly but objectively, and if he'd done something along the lines of his excellent homelessness project & blog, who knows? he might make a difference.
The thing I find interesting about such arguments, is that it is often cited that you can't make half a ton of horse do something it doesn't want to.
But apparently a whip is necessary to control a horse.
But it doesn't cause pain.
So why does a whip, that does no damage, help control a horse?
Animals tend to have a flight/fight/freeze response to stress and danger. Horses are a prey animal. Horses evolved to take flight from predators.
When a horse dies due to overexertion, it seems to me the reason it pushes itself to this point, is that its flight response to stress is being abused.
That does seem cruel.
Some people say horses "love" to run. So race horses should be allowed to run. Of course they get old, and looked after.
In the same way you could say lambs love to have a good frolick. Cows "love" to feed and keep their calves.
If it is correct to let horses run, because they "love" it, and then they are retired.
Not sure why a lambs, cows and calves shouldn't be subject to the same sort of logic.
A Definition of Entertainment: Something affording pleasure, diversion, or amusement, especially a performance of some kind:
If you can live on a plant based diet, and you can, but the reason for eating an animal is taste and the pleasure derived, then that is simply a form of entertainment.
Can't really see the difference between enjoying a horse race and enjoying a horse steak.
The issue with scientific studies, is that they tend to be for specific things.
You can find meta-analysis of various diet studies, and these are probably best bet for informed current knowledge on diets and health wrt comparisons.
The thing I find interesting about such arguments, is that it is often cited that you can't make half a ton of horse do something it doesn't want to.
But apparently a whip is necessary to control a horse.
But it doesn't cause pain.
So why does a whip, that does no damage, help control a horse?
Animals tend to have a flight/fight/freeze response to stress and danger. Horses are a prey animal. Horses evolved to take flight from predators.
When a horse dies due to overexertion, it seems to me the reason it pushes itself to this point, is that its flight response to stress is being abused.
That does seem cruel.
Some people say horses "love" to run. So race horses should be allowed to run. Of course they get old, and looked after.
In the same way you could say lambs love to have a good frolick. Cows "love" to feed and keep their calves.
If it is correct to let horses run, because they "love" it, and then they are retired.
Not sure why a lambs, cows and calves shouldn't be subject to the same sort of logic.
A Definition of Entertainment: Something affording pleasure, diversion, or amusement, especially a performance of some kind:
If you can live on a plant based diet, and you can, but the reason for eating an animal is taste and the pleasure derived, then that is simply a form of entertainment.
Can't really see the difference between enjoying a horse race and enjoying a horse steak.
The thing I find interesting about such arguments, is that it is often cited that you can't make half a ton of horse do something it doesn't want to.
But apparently a whip is necessary to control a horse.
But it doesn't cause pain.
So why does a whip, that does no damage, help control a horse?
Animals tend to have a flight/fight/freeze response to stress and danger. Horses are a prey animal. Horses evolved to take flight from predators.
When a horse dies due to overexertion, it seems to me the reason it pushes itself to this point, is that its flight response to stress is being abused.
That does seem cruel.
Some people say horses "love" to run. So race horses should be allowed to run. Of course they get old, and looked after.
In the same way you could say lambs love to have a good frolick. Cows "love" to feed and keep their calves.
If it is correct to let horses run, because they "love" it, and then they are retired.
Not sure why a lambs, cows and calves shouldn't be subject to the same sort of logic.
A Definition of Entertainment: Something affording pleasure, diversion, or amusement, especially a performance of some kind:
If you can live on a plant based diet, and you can, but the reason for eating an animal is taste and the pleasure derived, then that is simply a form of entertainment.
Can't really see the difference between enjoying a horse race and enjoying a horse steak.
May I recomend you read, or re-read, the thread (esp p.6).
Anyone who eats farmed meat but thinks we should ban horse racing is a hypocrite. Simple as that.
Any meat you buy from the supermarket comes from an animal that endured a far more depressing life and suffered a far more horrifying death than any of these SIX horses that died at Cheltenham.
The thing I find interesting about such arguments, is that it is often cited that you can't make half a ton of horse do something it doesn't want to.
But apparently a whip is necessary to control a horse.
But it doesn't cause pain.
So why does a whip, that does no damage, help control a horse?
Animals tend to have a flight/fight/freeze response to stress and danger. Horses are a prey animal. Horses evolved to take flight from predators.
When a horse dies due to overexertion, it seems to me the reason it pushes itself to this point, is that its flight response to stress is being abused.
That does seem cruel.
Some people say horses "love" to run. So race horses should be allowed to run. Of course they get old, and looked after.
In the same way you could say lambs love to have a good frolick. Cows "love" to feed and keep their calves.
If it is correct to let horses run, because they "love" it, and then they are retired.
Not sure why a lambs, cows and calves shouldn't be subject to the same sort of logic.
A Definition of Entertainment: Something affording pleasure, diversion, or amusement, especially a performance of some kind:
If you can live on a plant based diet, and you can, but the reason for eating an animal is taste and the pleasure derived, then that is simply a form of entertainment.
Can't really see the difference between enjoying a horse race and enjoying a horse steak.
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