| Just seen this 12:23 - Mar 17 with 49898 views | RoyKeanesDog |
6 deaths at Cheltenham this year under severe suspicion of neglect.
Owners are so desperate not to lose money they make the horses race when they know there's a strong chance of them dieing. Really is a brutal 'sport'.
I just don't know how people can go there and support this cruelty for 'entertaimment' and then go home and sleep at night.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but hey I think animal cruelty should stop. |  |
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| Just seen this on 16:42 - Mar 18 with 2738 views | Ryorry |
| Just seen this on 16:38 - Mar 18 by monytowbray |
You only get temp div'ed as you're nice IRL and I have some positive interactions with you, no chance of SB ever coming off it though if he returns.
I am a big fan of vegan pesto, there's one in Sainsburys in the FF section I love. |
Must admit I've never kissed a taco before but it was nice * 
*on the cheek before anyone starts! 
Will have a look at the Sains vegan pesto, cheers - luscious tho the Seggiano one is, must admit it's very expensive, & I can only get it online. |  |
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| Just seen this on 16:45 - Mar 18 with 2731 views | J2BLUE |
| Just seen this on 16:42 - Mar 18 by Ryorry |
Must admit I've never kissed a taco before but it was nice *
*on the cheek before anyone starts!
Will have a look at the Sains vegan pesto, cheers - luscious tho the Seggiano one is, must admit it's very expensive, & I can only get it online. |
I'm sitting here sniggering at you having never kissed a taco.
#urbandictionary |  |
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| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 16:45 - Mar 18 with 2731 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 16:31 - Mar 18 by The_Romford_Blue |
No number of deaths will ever be ‘acceptable’ really. I think acceptable is a bad word when you are talking about the death of something.
But yes you are correct, it’s something we have to live with as lovers of the sport because if you abolish racing, the other 249 of the 250 will have no lives. Even the one that will sadly die in racing has had a great life before it’s demise.
The two viewpoints won’t align I agree. But I will try my very best to debate fairly and see both sides of the argument. Whilst there are things that should be done (the aforementioned last race over 2 Miles with 24 runners), I don’t agree that racing is a ‘cruel’ sport and anyone supporting it ‘has no love for the animals’. I think the last comment couldn’t be further from the truth. I made sure between races to go round and see the great creatures being looked after after there races and watched them cooling down and going back to their paddocks. The first thing I do when there is a faller is to watch to make sure the horse gets up. These great creatures are loved by everyone in racing from the fans to the trainers to the stable boys/lasses to the jockeys. We all share the love of the sport and that centres around the horses. |
I wrestled for a better word than acceptable but couldn't articulate one.
Accept is right though, as horse racing fans do accept that these deaths occur as part of the sport you love. That doesn't mean it's wrong, or you don't care, but you accept that they are part of the sport.
I'm completely unsure where I stand as I used to gamble a bit on the horses and I still enjoy popping down to the Guineas, but I don't like NH, Cheltenham and despise the national. |  | | |
| Just seen this on 16:49 - Mar 18 with 2719 views | blue75 |
You should pay a visit to Newmarket those horses are treated better than a lot of people. Unfortunately sometimes they die racing if there was no racing they wouldn’t be here. None of the big trainers will risk a horse if not fit not worth the risk. |  |
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| Just seen this on 16:50 - Mar 18 with 2713 views | Ryorry |
| Just seen this on 16:39 - Mar 18 by J2BLUE |
Have you had it with gnocchi? Very nice meal. |
Will give it a whirl, cheers - talking of Sains, they had some near-ready-made herb tagliatelle on their FF chilled products which I had the pesto on couple of months back & that was also superb. They don't seem to have that tag. in very often tho.
I'm enjoying how the thread on horse fatalities at Chelts has now turned into a gourmet vegan one - that's the wonder and delight of TWTD!!  | |
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| Just seen this on 16:51 - Mar 18 with 2709 views | buoyant |
| Just seen this on 16:10 - Mar 18 by Slartibartfast |
You're becoming stupid now aren't you? |
An inconvenient truth is stupid?
Odd |  |
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| Just seen this on 16:54 - Mar 18 with 2699 views | Ryorry |
| Just seen this on 16:45 - Mar 18 by J2BLUE |
I'm sitting here sniggering at you having never kissed a taco.
#urbandictionary |
OMG -  Aaaaaaahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
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| Just seen this on 17:08 - Mar 18 with 2657 views | RoyKeanesDog |
| Just seen this on 16:14 - Mar 18 by The_Romford_Blue |
Hold up, the reason that happened was because that was during a period where I couldn’t sleep. So the previews were first posted a 4am and id bump them at 9am when most people woke up.
That’s a bit of a jump isn’t it |
If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, you posted it at 23:59 the night before, nobody replied so you bumped at 12:09. | |
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| Just seen this on 17:12 - Mar 18 with 2646 views | monytowbray |
| Just seen this on 17:08 - Mar 18 by RoyKeanesDog |
If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, you posted it at 23:59 the night before, nobody replied so you bumped at 12:09. |
This is getting quite petty now. It's gone from horse racing to gambling to the times a thread was posted.
I'm still more interested in why horse racing is bad but it's okay to eat horse meat personally. Genuine question. How do you feel one is wrong but the other is okay? More animals fall victim to cruelty and grim deaths in the meat and dairy industry than horses in the horse industry. I just can't make sense of this thread at all. |  |
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| Just seen this on 17:13 - Mar 18 with 2641 views | J2BLUE |
| Just seen this on 17:12 - Mar 18 by monytowbray |
This is getting quite petty now. It's gone from horse racing to gambling to the times a thread was posted.
I'm still more interested in why horse racing is bad but it's okay to eat horse meat personally. Genuine question. How do you feel one is wrong but the other is okay? More animals fall victim to cruelty and grim deaths in the meat and dairy industry than horses in the horse industry. I just can't make sense of this thread at all. |
I think his post was meant to come across like that. It made me laugh anyway. | |
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| Just seen this on 17:15 - Mar 18 with 2633 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| Just seen this on 17:12 - Mar 18 by monytowbray |
This is getting quite petty now. It's gone from horse racing to gambling to the times a thread was posted.
I'm still more interested in why horse racing is bad but it's okay to eat horse meat personally. Genuine question. How do you feel one is wrong but the other is okay? More animals fall victim to cruelty and grim deaths in the meat and dairy industry than horses in the horse industry. I just can't make sense of this thread at all. |
Good question.
for me, personally, animal deaths to provide food is acceptable.
animal deaths for human entertainment = not acceptable. (though I am hypocritical as I said above, I do like the occasional visit to the flat races) | | | |
| Just seen this on 17:17 - Mar 18 with 2627 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Just seen this on 16:35 - Mar 18 by monytowbray |
But you have been purposely dismissive in those threads in the past and even in this thread you dragged my name up with the tagline "close minded" without any provocation. I just feel like me and you have more common ground than you may believe (alas on very different ends of the spectrum) with interactions on here and people taking issue with whatever those views are.
FWIW I think a large chunk of this thread is hypocritical nonsense from the OP onwards (despite at least agreeing with the original sentiment), watching the same people who told me to f*ck off about veganism and judging people over stuff they don't care about suddenly taking a huge issue with horse racing. I've even seen RKD take the exact point he's criticised me making to his advantage here.
If horse racing bothers anyone here but you're still eating meat you need to ask yourself why, I take much larger issue with the dairy industry than I do the horse racing industry. I don't agree with either but the former is certainly much worse, yet if I post about that I'm told I'm being an extremist loon.
This forum is utterly insane and the best thing you can do right now Rommers is div list a few people and log off. You'd be amazed how much easier this place gets when you no longer interact with 3-4 people. I don't think I've had a row on here in weeks which is ironic as I'm meant to be the argumentative one. This thread being a classic example of some of those very posters who want to continually argue and poke others whilst pleading ignorance to their own actions. [Post edited 18 Mar 2018 16:39]
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Fair play - that’s probably the best post on this thread.
Looking at that ‘close minded’ comment I made and mentioned your name, I shouldn’t have done that so apologies. |  |
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| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 17:18 - Mar 18 with 2615 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| What is irrelevant about this? Genuinely interested? on 16:36 - Mar 18 by tcblue |
Christ, so it is 1 in 250?
Good grief, that's awful. |
Is it? 10 in 2500. But what about the 2490 that have perfectly happy lives.
Ban racing and all 2500 die. | |
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| Just seen this on 17:19 - Mar 18 with 2613 views | J2BLUE |
| Just seen this on 17:15 - Mar 18 by DropCliffsNotBombs |
Good question.
for me, personally, animal deaths to provide food is acceptable.
animal deaths for human entertainment = not acceptable. (though I am hypocritical as I said above, I do like the occasional visit to the flat races) |
It's not necessary to use animals for entertainment.
It's not necessary to use animals for food.
What's the difference?
Factory farmed animals would look at the life of a race horse and be extremely jealous. One horse moves more in one race than many factory farmed animals move in a lifetime. | |
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| Just seen this on 17:19 - Mar 18 with 2610 views | monytowbray |
| Just seen this on 17:15 - Mar 18 by DropCliffsNotBombs |
Good question.
for me, personally, animal deaths to provide food is acceptable.
animal deaths for human entertainment = not acceptable. (though I am hypocritical as I said above, I do like the occasional visit to the flat races) |
But why personally do you feel that? We've established the fact that one is acceptable and the other isn't in the eyes of many on here, but I'm more interested in what brings anyone to that conclusion.
We need meat and dairy in our diets as much as we need to watch horses run around on a field getting whipped or get ravenous dogs to run around the countryside ripping foxes to shreds. All three of those examples are humans undervaluing the life of another sentient being for the sake of enjoyment, yet only one is widely regarded as problematic, whilst the other is debatably problematic to a minority and the other is completely acceptable by society. [Post edited 18 Mar 2018 17:20]
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| Just seen this on 17:21 - Mar 18 with 2593 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| Just seen this on 17:19 - Mar 18 by J2BLUE |
It's not necessary to use animals for entertainment.
It's not necessary to use animals for food.
What's the difference?
Factory farmed animals would look at the life of a race horse and be extremely jealous. One horse moves more in one race than many factory farmed animals move in a lifetime. |
so just to clarify, you accept animals' deaths for food and entertainment?
or one not both?
or hypocrite for both? | | | |
| Just seen this on 17:22 - Mar 18 with 2588 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Just seen this on 17:08 - Mar 18 by RoyKeanesDog |
If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, you posted it at 23:59 the night before, nobody replied so you bumped at 12:09. |
That’s 11:49 the night before and 12am lunchtime
So the point remains the same
Edit - Assuming those are the actual times and you’ve not made all this up. It’s all getting very petty as Callis rightly says. [Post edited 18 Mar 2018 17:24]
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| Just seen this on 17:24 - Mar 18 with 2579 views | J2BLUE |
| Just seen this on 17:19 - Mar 18 by monytowbray |
But why personally do you feel that? We've established the fact that one is acceptable and the other isn't in the eyes of many on here, but I'm more interested in what brings anyone to that conclusion.
We need meat and dairy in our diets as much as we need to watch horses run around on a field getting whipped or get ravenous dogs to run around the countryside ripping foxes to shreds. All three of those examples are humans undervaluing the life of another sentient being for the sake of enjoyment, yet only one is widely regarded as problematic, whilst the other is debatably problematic to a minority and the other is completely acceptable by society. [Post edited 18 Mar 2018 17:20]
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I don't believe you can say that about meat and dairy. There's plenty of former vegans who feel much better with animal products added back into their diet. I don't believe it has ever been studied long term.
You can have that opinion. I don't believe you can have that fact. Works both ways. I can't have the fact that we need animal products but I can believe they are beneficial for most people. | |
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| Just seen this on 17:24 - Mar 18 with 2578 views | monytowbray |
| Just seen this on 17:21 - Mar 18 by DropCliffsNotBombs |
so just to clarify, you accept animals' deaths for food and entertainment?
or one not both?
or hypocrite for both? |
I know you didn't ask me, but I certainly feel it's massively hypocritical, for reasons I've mentioned above. The animal agriculture industry is by far worse than horse racing if one wants to take an animal rights stance on matters. | |
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| Just seen this on 17:25 - Mar 18 with 2572 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| Just seen this on 17:19 - Mar 18 by monytowbray |
But why personally do you feel that? We've established the fact that one is acceptable and the other isn't in the eyes of many on here, but I'm more interested in what brings anyone to that conclusion.
We need meat and dairy in our diets as much as we need to watch horses run around on a field getting whipped or get ravenous dogs to run around the countryside ripping foxes to shreds. All three of those examples are humans undervaluing the life of another sentient being for the sake of enjoyment, yet only one is widely regarded as problematic, whilst the other is debatably problematic to a minority and the other is completely acceptable by society. [Post edited 18 Mar 2018 17:20]
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I believe there is nutritional benefit to eating meat/dairy. Humans are designed to eat both. many animals are designed to eat meat. You choose not to, fair call. I have no interest in arguing your choice.
No other animal uses other animals for sport/entertainment.
But this has been done to death, for want of a better expression. Thought your decent question deserved a response. | | | |
| Just seen this on 17:27 - Mar 18 with 2569 views | monytowbray |
| Just seen this on 17:24 - Mar 18 by J2BLUE |
I don't believe you can say that about meat and dairy. There's plenty of former vegans who feel much better with animal products added back into their diet. I don't believe it has ever been studied long term.
You can have that opinion. I don't believe you can have that fact. Works both ways. I can't have the fact that we need animal products but I can believe they are beneficial for most people. |
I mean, I thought I felt better when I first gave up vegetarianism, but in reality I felt ill because I drank 6 nights a week, smoked 30 fags a day, did no exercise and lived on a diet of junk food.
There's very little if anything nutritional you can't get from a plant or a supplement that you get from meat, it's just being a bit more self-aware of what you eat to get what you need. I get fatigue if I don't eat greens, but on the flip side I'd also feel like crap when I still ate meat and had a weekend of boozing with takeaway food.
To my knowledge no one has ever died from not eating meat, and if they have it would be a very rare/odd scenario. | |
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| Just seen this on 17:30 - Mar 18 with 2557 views | monytowbray |
| Just seen this on 17:25 - Mar 18 by DropCliffsNotBombs |
I believe there is nutritional benefit to eating meat/dairy. Humans are designed to eat both. many animals are designed to eat meat. You choose not to, fair call. I have no interest in arguing your choice.
No other animal uses other animals for sport/entertainment.
But this has been done to death, for want of a better expression. Thought your decent question deserved a response. |
What makes you believe there is a nutritional benefit to eating meat/dairy over a plant based diet though? | |
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| Just seen this on 17:31 - Mar 18 with 2553 views | J2BLUE |
| Just seen this on 17:21 - Mar 18 by DropCliffsNotBombs |
so just to clarify, you accept animals' deaths for food and entertainment?
or one not both?
or hypocrite for both? |
I'm just making a point.
Personally I don't think it's wrong to eat animal products from quality sources (high welfare etc)
I don't think horse racing is necessarily wrong either. I'm very much in the grey area on both subjects. The horse racing industry does care about the animals. Aintree had a review done in 2012 and has been made safer. Cheltenham will likely have the same. One death is too much but I believe the lives the horses lead are good lives. It's clear how much their owners and the people who care for them love them. There will be exceptions just like there are pet owners who treat their animals horribly. I personally think owning certain pets is much worse than horse racing. Dogs, cats etc are fine, they tend to be loved, get plenty of exercise and treated as members of the family. A snake, hamster, fish, bird etc in a little cage or tank is something that makes me uncomfortable much more than horse racing.
Again, there are so many grey areas and we're comparing pets to racing, racing to food etc etc. Everyone starts from a different bias and some people think we need to all agree on a certain stance. It won't happen. Everyone has one example which they think overrules everything else said on the subject, which going full circle, is where much of the problem with gambling comes from on this site; knowing someone who had an addiction. | |
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| Just seen this on 17:35 - Mar 18 with 2540 views | J2BLUE |
| Just seen this on 17:27 - Mar 18 by monytowbray |
I mean, I thought I felt better when I first gave up vegetarianism, but in reality I felt ill because I drank 6 nights a week, smoked 30 fags a day, did no exercise and lived on a diet of junk food.
There's very little if anything nutritional you can't get from a plant or a supplement that you get from meat, it's just being a bit more self-aware of what you eat to get what you need. I get fatigue if I don't eat greens, but on the flip side I'd also feel like crap when I still ate meat and had a weekend of boozing with takeaway food.
To my knowledge no one has ever died from not eating meat, and if they have it would be a very rare/odd scenario. |
Your first point is odd. That's nothing to do with meat. You can drink heavily, smoke and eat a vegan junk food diet as well.
You can't get zoochemicals from plant foods. The name is open invitation to take the piss but they are genuinely a thing. | |
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| Just seen this on 17:41 - Mar 18 with 2525 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| Just seen this on 17:30 - Mar 18 by monytowbray |
What makes you believe there is a nutritional benefit to eating meat/dairy over a plant based diet though? |
vit b12 not found in plants
lack of iron, calcium etc.
I know you can get supplements but much harder to get in a vegan diet.
This is what I'm led to believe; if I'm wrong, would be intetested to hear otherwise. | | | |
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