| Ronaldo vs Messi... 21:05 - Jun 21 with 7471 views | TIB |
I always feel like Ronaldo shows more conjones than Messi when up against it in games like tonight. |  |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 05:39 - Jun 22 with 2666 views | itfcjoe |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 22:02 - Jun 21 by LankHenners |
Like what exactly? And if that is the case why (as has already been mentioned) hasn't he done that in the past for Portugal?
He only 'drags' them in the sense that he's an excellent goalscorer who can ruthlessly finish off what others give him.
Messi was under-par tonight but there's not a whole lot more he can really do in a very disjointed looking team full of players that seemed unable to get anything right.
Ronaldo instead of Messi in that team tonight and Croatia still beat them easily. |
I don’t think people realise how bad Argentina are because they look at the players and think they must be good - they played 8 qualifiers without him Messi and only won 1 - lost to Ecuador, Paraguay. Drew with Paraguay, Peru and Venezuela.
Portugal are a solid well organised and disciplined team who set themselves up to bring out Ronaldos strengths, rightly so. Argentina don’t do the same with Messi and it’s impossible to understand why.
I do think Ronaldo may have edged ahead of Messi with regards to current ability, but still say Messi has been a greater player throughout career |  |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 05:42 - Jun 22 with 2666 views | itfcjoe |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 22:56 - Jun 21 by SE1blue |
I always wanted to prefer Messi because of Ronaldo’s personality.
However, Messi falls short of ronaldo in my opinion. A large part of that for me is that Messi has only ever played in Spain, where there are two teams who dominate like Rangers and Celtic.
Ronaldo has been prepared to test himself in different countries and still excelled. I wonder if Messi is just used to winning and almost having it too easy with the players who have surrounded him at Barca.
Think this’ll be Messi’s last World Cup. |
Where would Messi have left Barcelona for? He came through at one of the 2 most desirable clubs in the world
Had Ronaldo joined Real as s teenager instead of Man U he’d have never have left them. | |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 07:33 - Jun 22 with 2637 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 23:05 - Jun 21 by Herbivore |
Except when he dragged them to the final of the last World Cup.......
They wouldn't have come close to qualifying this time around without Messi. Google their record without Messi versus their record with him. Portugal on the other hand won the Euro final with Ronaldo going off injured early on. Argentina have some good players but they're an awful team in terms of balance and shape. |
This is just like Kuqi v Pablo |  | | |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 07:45 - Jun 22 with 2628 views | StokieBlue |
Interesting summary of this on the Guardian podcast this morning.
Essentially the guy was saying that Messi is a "test tube footballer" and that he is totally magnificent in "laboratory conditions" like he has at Barcelona and that Ronaldo is more of a street footballer.
Essentially if you are building your entire club around them then Messi is your man. If it's a cold night in Stoke and you need someone to get you the points then you pick Ronaldo every time.
It's an interesting way of looking at the comparison I think.
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 07:46 - Jun 22 with 2620 views | Herbivore |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 05:39 - Jun 22 by itfcjoe |
I don’t think people realise how bad Argentina are because they look at the players and think they must be good - they played 8 qualifiers without him Messi and only won 1 - lost to Ecuador, Paraguay. Drew with Paraguay, Peru and Venezuela.
Portugal are a solid well organised and disciplined team who set themselves up to bring out Ronaldos strengths, rightly so. Argentina don’t do the same with Messi and it’s impossible to understand why.
I do think Ronaldo may have edged ahead of Messi with regards to current ability, but still say Messi has been a greater player throughout career |
If you look at their seasons overall, Messi has been superb for Barca and hasn't lost a league game with them all season. He's been playing a little deeper whilst still scoring silly amounts of goals. Ronaldo didn't show up until Real were already out of the title race and then after a good run he did very little in the last three games of the Champions League, failing to score in any of them. Two decent games in the World Cup group stages and all of a sudden he is better than Messi. I just don't buy it I'm afraid. Where Ronaldo is better than Messi is in taking all the credit for his team's achievements.
I read an interesting article a couple of years ago that showed that Messi's goals are consistently worth more points per game than Ronaldo's. He also scores more against the better sides in La Liga. But Ronaldo fans don't look at context and seem to think him scoring a penalty in the last minute of extra time to make it 4-1 in a CL final is the equivalent to Messi scoring a winning goal from open play in the same fixture. Ronaldo's contribution in the very biggest games has always been as patchy and often more patchy than Messi's, but his fans forget this the minute he strings two good games together and Messi has a bad time of it for two matches. [Post edited 22 Jun 2018 8:04]
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 09:09 - Jun 22 with 2581 views | Stenvict |
Is Messi at this World Cup? |  |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 09:27 - Jun 22 with 2565 views | LankHenners |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 05:39 - Jun 22 by itfcjoe |
I don’t think people realise how bad Argentina are because they look at the players and think they must be good - they played 8 qualifiers without him Messi and only won 1 - lost to Ecuador, Paraguay. Drew with Paraguay, Peru and Venezuela.
Portugal are a solid well organised and disciplined team who set themselves up to bring out Ronaldos strengths, rightly so. Argentina don’t do the same with Messi and it’s impossible to understand why.
I do think Ronaldo may have edged ahead of Messi with regards to current ability, but still say Messi has been a greater player throughout career |
There seems to be a lot of people saying that Messi should have been able to drag Argentina through that game because Ronaldo did it for Portugal in their games. I'm not convinced those people have watched much football full stop let alone the games they're supposedly using as evidence to bash Messi with.
Sampaoli has to take a lot of the blame - puts out a very unbalanced and unorganised team that doesn't seem to get the best out of anyone let alone the world's best player. Santos for Portugal on the other hand is much more shrewd and puts out a team that allows Ronaldo to hang around the box and do what he currently does best - ruthlessly finish off chances (though, without wanting to be petty and over-analyse, and you still have to be there to score regardless, of his 4 goals, 1's a penalty, 1's a goalkeeping howler and 1's an unmarked header from inside the 6 yard box).
Messi will go down as greater than Ronaldo pretty comfortably - the only thing you could really put in Ronaldo's favour is that right now he's a better goalscorer, but that's what he is essentially. |  |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 09:29 - Jun 22 with 2559 views | factual_blue |
Ronaldo has players of quality around him in the Portuguese team.
Messi has nobody of any discernible quality with him in the Argentine team.
That's the key thing. |  |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 09:59 - Jun 22 with 2545 views | Herbivore |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 09:27 - Jun 22 by LankHenners |
There seems to be a lot of people saying that Messi should have been able to drag Argentina through that game because Ronaldo did it for Portugal in their games. I'm not convinced those people have watched much football full stop let alone the games they're supposedly using as evidence to bash Messi with.
Sampaoli has to take a lot of the blame - puts out a very unbalanced and unorganised team that doesn't seem to get the best out of anyone let alone the world's best player. Santos for Portugal on the other hand is much more shrewd and puts out a team that allows Ronaldo to hang around the box and do what he currently does best - ruthlessly finish off chances (though, without wanting to be petty and over-analyse, and you still have to be there to score regardless, of his 4 goals, 1's a penalty, 1's a goalkeeping howler and 1's an unmarked header from inside the 6 yard box).
Messi will go down as greater than Ronaldo pretty comfortably - the only thing you could really put in Ronaldo's favour is that right now he's a better goalscorer, but that's what he is essentially. |
And even if you focus just on goal scoring, over their careers Messi has a better goals to games ratio too. | |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 10:06 - Jun 22 with 2540 views | No_Moore_Kieffer |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 21:19 - Jun 21 by TIB |
Argentina have more quality around Messi than Portugal have around Ronaldo...tonight though, at 1-0 down after a soft goal I thought Messi would rouse a response from his teammates...but no. Maybe he’s just not as emotional on the pitch as Ronaldo.
All that said, Argentina scraped through qualifying and have looked bang average so far, you’d think their manager would have changed things up. |
Argentina absolutely do not have more quality around Messi.
I know they have Messi, Aguero, Dybala and Higuain, but outside of that they're a shambles.
Rui Patricio would get into most CL sides, maybe with the exception of Barca, City, United and Bayern. Caballero and Romero would be backups at most CL clubs.
Defensively, whilst neither Portugal nor Argentina have very good CB's, Cedric and Guerriero are certainly better than any Argentine full back - hence why they play 3-4-3, no good wide defenders.
In midfield, Carvalho and Moutinho are so far ahead of Mascherano and Perez it's a joke. Mascherano seems to have lost any ability he once had, whilst Perez is decent enough at dribbling, his all round game is lacking, especially in terms of when to release it so often runs into trouble.
Again, wingers - are you saying that Salvio is better than Bernado Silva and that Acuna is better than Joao Mario? Bernado Silva plays for arguably one of the best ever Prem sides, Mario is a PL quality player. Acuna and Salvio are no more than fairly decent players, playing in what is a poor league, in honesty.
And in addition, Jorge Sampaoli is an utterly abysmal manager. He looks totally clueless and shouldn't be anywhere near the Argentine national team job, Messi dragged this team to the World Cup to save his skin.
The difference between Barcelona Messi and Argentina Messi is this:
- Barcelona, as well as having an outstanding team, keep the ball and wait for the right opportunity to give it to Messi. If he's dropped deep into the middle third, the ball, more often than not, is held up or passed around until he's in an area to be a real threat with it. Whereas in Argentina, if he's not in a position where he can be a threat, the other players will try to do it on their own, losing the ball, and being left wide open to the counter attack. There's no cohesion or structure to the way they play, it's very "Is Messi available? No --> runs out of ideas so goes alone."
In CR7's case, both club and national team are very strong and managed/set up excellently, so if he's not in a position to do something, they have the players and intelligence to keep the ball until he is. He's involved with everything for both club and country for this reason, whereas Argentina just run out of ideas once passing to Messi isn't an option.
Massively respect both for what they do and have done in their careers, but Messi being in a very poor national side does nothing to change my mind - he's still the best ever for me. |  | | |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 10:10 - Jun 22 with 2533 views | itfcjoe |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 09:29 - Jun 22 by factual_blue |
Ronaldo has players of quality around him in the Portuguese team.
Messi has nobody of any discernible quality with him in the Argentine team.
That's the key thing. |
Messi has plenty of quality in the squad, but the manager can't set a team up properly | |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:06 - Jun 22 with 2505 views | HarryWright |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 23:05 - Jun 21 by Herbivore |
Except when he dragged them to the final of the last World Cup.......
They wouldn't have come close to qualifying this time around without Messi. Google their record without Messi versus their record with him. Portugal on the other hand won the Euro final with Ronaldo going off injured early on. Argentina have some good players but they're an awful team in terms of balance and shape. |
Are you saying Ronaldo didn't drag Portugal to the final of the euros despite scoring two goals in the final game of the group which got them through?
To suggest Messi dragged Argentina to the final is madness he was good but it wasn't a world cup where he stood out - James Rodriguez should've got the player of the tournament, everyone knew that at the time. |  | | |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:13 - Jun 22 with 2503 views | HarryWright |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 07:46 - Jun 22 by Herbivore |
If you look at their seasons overall, Messi has been superb for Barca and hasn't lost a league game with them all season. He's been playing a little deeper whilst still scoring silly amounts of goals. Ronaldo didn't show up until Real were already out of the title race and then after a good run he did very little in the last three games of the Champions League, failing to score in any of them. Two decent games in the World Cup group stages and all of a sudden he is better than Messi. I just don't buy it I'm afraid. Where Ronaldo is better than Messi is in taking all the credit for his team's achievements.
I read an interesting article a couple of years ago that showed that Messi's goals are consistently worth more points per game than Ronaldo's. He also scores more against the better sides in La Liga. But Ronaldo fans don't look at context and seem to think him scoring a penalty in the last minute of extra time to make it 4-1 in a CL final is the equivalent to Messi scoring a winning goal from open play in the same fixture. Ronaldo's contribution in the very biggest games has always been as patchy and often more patchy than Messi's, but his fans forget this the minute he strings two good games together and Messi has a bad time of it for two matches. [Post edited 22 Jun 2018 8:04]
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pretty sure at the age of 33 Ronaldo scored 41 goals last season, but let's talk about Ronaldo not scoring in a few champions league games... the competition Messi was knocked out of. Or let's ignore any goals he scored after your chosen timeframe because it doesn't count anymore?
I think both are similar in ability and are actually very different players - I do agree however passion wise Ronaldo seems to want it so much more than Messi who was just seemed to sulk. A little bit like when he retired from international duty because they lost. | | | |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:25 - Jun 22 with 2495 views | Herbivore |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:06 - Jun 22 by HarryWright |
Are you saying Ronaldo didn't drag Portugal to the final of the euros despite scoring two goals in the final game of the group which got them through?
To suggest Messi dragged Argentina to the final is madness he was good but it wasn't a world cup where he stood out - James Rodriguez should've got the player of the tournament, everyone knew that at the time. |
Where have I said that about Ronaldo? He had a decent Euros for sure, but was no more influential for Portugal than Messi was in taking Argentina to the World Cup final. Messi scored 4 goals to Ronaldo's 3 goals but that all quickly gets forgotten. Have a look though at how Argentina got on during qualifying for this World Cup to get a sense of what a poor side they are. Messi pretty much got them here singlehandedly. [Post edited 22 Jun 2018 11:25]
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:30 - Jun 22 with 2490 views | itfcjoe |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:06 - Jun 22 by HarryWright |
Are you saying Ronaldo didn't drag Portugal to the final of the euros despite scoring two goals in the final game of the group which got them through?
To suggest Messi dragged Argentina to the final is madness he was good but it wasn't a world cup where he stood out - James Rodriguez should've got the player of the tournament, everyone knew that at the time. |
Portugal drew all their group games, and were lucky to go through. Messi had a better WC 2014 than Ronaldo did Euro 2016 but they won so that sets the narrative. | |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:32 - Jun 22 with 2489 views | Herbivore |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:30 - Jun 22 by itfcjoe |
Portugal drew all their group games, and were lucky to go through. Messi had a better WC 2014 than Ronaldo did Euro 2016 but they won so that sets the narrative. |
Indeed. Portugal won the Euros despite only winning 1 of their 7 games in normal time. Their success was a bit like Greece's, they were organised and hard to beat and managed to nick wins in a tournament where no sides were really outstanding. Wales made the semis ffs. | |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:32 - Jun 22 with 2488 views | HarryWright |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:25 - Jun 22 by Herbivore |
Where have I said that about Ronaldo? He had a decent Euros for sure, but was no more influential for Portugal than Messi was in taking Argentina to the World Cup final. Messi scored 4 goals to Ronaldo's 3 goals but that all quickly gets forgotten. Have a look though at how Argentina got on during qualifying for this World Cup to get a sense of what a poor side they are. Messi pretty much got them here singlehandedly. [Post edited 22 Jun 2018 11:25]
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I get that, I think both are clearly two of the greatest of all time - I think there's something to be said for some of the comments in this thread about how Ronaldo will dig deep and get his team out, pointing back to the euros against Hungary where they were staring at elimination and he scored two goals to save them.
Both are great, and I don't see an issue when someone thinks one or the other is better, what frustrates me is those that say 'Messi is clearly better' which just isn't true. | | | |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:42 - Jun 22 with 2480 views | Stenvict |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:32 - Jun 22 by HarryWright |
I get that, I think both are clearly two of the greatest of all time - I think there's something to be said for some of the comments in this thread about how Ronaldo will dig deep and get his team out, pointing back to the euros against Hungary where they were staring at elimination and he scored two goals to save them.
Both are great, and I don't see an issue when someone thinks one or the other is better, what frustrates me is those that say 'Messi is clearly better' which just isn't true. |
Your last paragraph is spot on.
It's all about opinions. In my opinion, Ronaldo is better but I respect the opinion of others who say Messi better as long as they can accept that it is their opinion.
If I wanted to, I could pick out a few games where Messi went missing like some have said about Ronaldo. | |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:43 - Jun 22 with 2478 views | Herbivore |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:32 - Jun 22 by HarryWright |
I get that, I think both are clearly two of the greatest of all time - I think there's something to be said for some of the comments in this thread about how Ronaldo will dig deep and get his team out, pointing back to the euros against Hungary where they were staring at elimination and he scored two goals to save them.
Both are great, and I don't see an issue when someone thinks one or the other is better, what frustrates me is those that say 'Messi is clearly better' which just isn't true. |
Messi scored a hat trick to qualify Argentina for the tournament. He scored a late winner for them in the group stages at the last World Cup when needed and set up a winner in one of the knockout games. There's countless examples of Ronnie failing to lift his team and seeming to sulk when things aren't going his way so it's not an argument I buy to be honest. I agree both are great players, I see Ronnie as a top 10 all time great but I make Messi top 3 as he has much more to his game. | |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:54 - Jun 22 with 2468 views | TIB |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:32 - Jun 22 by HarryWright |
I get that, I think both are clearly two of the greatest of all time - I think there's something to be said for some of the comments in this thread about how Ronaldo will dig deep and get his team out, pointing back to the euros against Hungary where they were staring at elimination and he scored two goals to save them.
Both are great, and I don't see an issue when someone thinks one or the other is better, what frustrates me is those that say 'Messi is clearly better' which just isn't true. |
The only way to solve this...can Messi cut it on a cold, Tuesday night in Stoke? | |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:58 - Jun 22 with 2462 views | HarryWright |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:54 - Jun 22 by TIB |
The only way to solve this...can Messi cut it on a cold, Tuesday night in Stoke? |
He couldn't handle the championship, tough league | | | |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 12:23 - Jun 22 with 2447 views | Stenvict |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 11:43 - Jun 22 by Herbivore |
Messi scored a hat trick to qualify Argentina for the tournament. He scored a late winner for them in the group stages at the last World Cup when needed and set up a winner in one of the knockout games. There's countless examples of Ronnie failing to lift his team and seeming to sulk when things aren't going his way so it's not an argument I buy to be honest. I agree both are great players, I see Ronnie as a top 10 all time great but I make Messi top 3 as he has much more to his game. |
Don't forget Messi sulked and retired from International football | |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 16:34 - Jun 22 with 2403 views | Currie10 |
| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 12:23 - Jun 22 by Stenvict |
Don't forget Messi sulked and retired from International football |
Messi has much more than Ronaldo to his game!?
1/100.
Both are qualify, flip a coin.
To those that seem to think Ronaldo is a mile worse than Messi, or not even in the same league concern me.
We're spoilt to have them both as good as they ae / have been in the same era. |  | | |
| on 16:41 - Jun 22 with 2400 views | _ |
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| Ronaldo vs Messi... on 16:52 - Jun 22 with 2391 views | StokieBlue |
Got a link? Couldn't spot the article.
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