| Daily Mail headline on Saturday 00:19 - Jul 21 with 12223 views | Oldsmoker |
BREXIT PLAN SAVAGED BY EU 'MAFIA'
Rees-Mogg : Brussels agression proves why we are right to leave.
So teacher gave you an "F" for your homework and you blame the teacher not yourself.
Half-wits. |  |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 10:53 - Jul 21 with 2808 views | WeWereZombies |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 09:46 - Jul 21 by imsureazzure |
Crap analogy, virtually every divorced person I know and that will concur across the country is glad they are divorced, wonder why they ever got married in the first place and some wish they hade never met their former spouse. |
It is oh so much more complex than that, but we put a brave face on to keep going, especially if there are children involved. Eighteen years on I'm still not sure that leading separate lives whilst still sharing a roof would not have been a better idea.
Not sure where that leaves the analogy, maybe for once you got something right in one of your posts... |  |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 10:59 - Jul 21 with 2797 views | Steve_M |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 08:43 - Jul 21 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
This is one of things I struggle with, if we capitulate to the EU and stay we are saying that you are committed to the EU in perpetuity never ever able to leave, just think about that for a second, a sovereign nation completely wedded to something we never voted for in the first place and seem to have little abiility to change (see Cameron’s attempts at reform).
How many people would ever get married if we rescinded the divorce laws and made splitting up illegal? [Post edited 21 Jul 2018 8:50]
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No, we can leave but we would need to accept the costs and that to would take time to disentangle the economy. Pretending there are no costs to leaving and desperately rushing that process through without even a clear endpoint let alone a plan is why we have a catastrophic mess. |  |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 11:06 - Jul 21 with 2774 views | Swansea_Blue |
And that’s a perfect example of why we’re so divided. Top trolling by Dacre and his like, but with serious consequences. I don’t mean Brexit (although that could be serious enough), but where we’re heading a nation. The erosion of truth, disrespect and anger at anyone who dares to hold a different view, or to look or act differently. |  |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 11:13 - Jul 21 with 2754 views | Binner |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 09:33 - Jul 21 by sparks |
I think thats probably right. importantly though, we never knowingly spoke any wedding vows. We only agreed to shack up. |
I don't think the 'marriage' analogy is a good or helpful one but, if we are running with it, then surely the rules we agreed to on entering the Common Market plus the many treaties we negotiated and signed over the last 40-odd years would represent those 'vows'. |  |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 11:26 - Jul 21 with 2725 views | Oldsmoker |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 09:33 - Jul 21 by sparks |
I think thats probably right. importantly though, we never knowingly spoke any wedding vows. We only agreed to shack up. |
John Major signed the Maastricht Treaty.
Those were the wedding vows.
We'd been living in sin up till then. | |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 11:52 - Jul 21 with 2690 views | factual_blue |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 10:46 - Jul 21 by J2BLUE |
Still going with that one eh?
Clearly you get some sort of feeling of superiority from repeating that so often. |
What isn't true about it?
I'm so superior I don't need to create feelings of superiority. |  |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 11:55 - Jul 21 with 2676 views | factual_blue |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 11:06 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue |
And that’s a perfect example of why we’re so divided. Top trolling by Dacre and his like, but with serious consequences. I don’t mean Brexit (although that could be serious enough), but where we’re heading a nation. The erosion of truth, disrespect and anger at anyone who dares to hold a different view, or to look or act differently. |
balls | |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 11:58 - Jul 21 with 2666 views | vapour_trail |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 10:59 - Jul 21 by Steve_M |
No, we can leave but we would need to accept the costs and that to would take time to disentangle the economy. Pretending there are no costs to leaving and desperately rushing that process through without even a clear endpoint let alone a plan is why we have a catastrophic mess. |
Yes indeed.
That’s why comments like “We have a trade deficit with the EU. Tariffs would hurt them more than us.” are both irresponsible and dishonest. But there’s been an economic dishonesty sold from the outset and it irrepressibly continues.
If people were a bit more honest, highlighted their perceived benefits on allowing fewer Europeans into the uk, and “taking back control” of the legislative agenda*, it would be much better all round.
*giving more control to the shower of sh1te currently running the shop is a mind numbing thought. |  |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 12:19 - Jul 21 with 2629 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 10:59 - Jul 21 by Steve_M |
No, we can leave but we would need to accept the costs and that to would take time to disentangle the economy. Pretending there are no costs to leaving and desperately rushing that process through without even a clear endpoint let alone a plan is why we have a catastrophic mess. |
Yes agreed there is a cost and it may be a while before everything settles down.My point is the EU position seems to have been all along that this is so complex and we don’t want to make it easy for you, or for you to make a success of life outside that EU that you may as well stay (against your wishes).
It’s a clear message to the other 27 States that don’t you dare be as bold as the UK and look to leave, [Post edited 21 Jul 2018 12:38]
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 12:40 - Jul 21 with 2605 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 12:19 - Jul 21 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
Yes agreed there is a cost and it may be a while before everything settles down.My point is the EU position seems to have been all along that this is so complex and we don’t want to make it easy for you, or for you to make a success of life outside that EU that you may as well stay (against your wishes).
It’s a clear message to the other 27 States that don’t you dare be as bold as the UK and look to leave, [Post edited 21 Jul 2018 12:38]
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It IS complex. Many of our laws, our trade, our ways of live, our structures around research, health, defence,security, human rights, etc., are all interwoven with those of other Member States. That’s just the reality, not an EU ‘position’ specific to the Brexit negs.
I don’t understand this argument for the EU being punitive. They’ve been clear and consistent in their stance. They’ve presented an organised front and acted with pace. Much of the difficulties seem to be on our side because we’ve been muddled and tardy. May has promised all things to all people and backed herself into a corner. | |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 13:02 - Jul 21 with 2586 views | vapour_trail |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 12:19 - Jul 21 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
Yes agreed there is a cost and it may be a while before everything settles down.My point is the EU position seems to have been all along that this is so complex and we don’t want to make it easy for you, or for you to make a success of life outside that EU that you may as well stay (against your wishes).
It’s a clear message to the other 27 States that don’t you dare be as bold as the UK and look to leave, [Post edited 21 Jul 2018 12:38]
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Why would the EU do anything other than protect their own interests? They didn’t choose brexit. Why is this a surprise to anybody at all? | |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 13:12 - Jul 21 with 2566 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 13:02 - Jul 21 by vapour_trail |
Why would the EU do anything other than protect their own interests? They didn’t choose brexit. Why is this a surprise to anybody at all? |
Their interests also include maintaining good working relations between their member states and us. As best as can be achieved when we leave anyway. All this talk of EU punishment is just spin on the inevitable fact that the relationship will be different. I’m surprised people lap it up. If we’re worse off when we leave it’s our fault - we’re the ones who have chosen to leave. All very bizarre, but consistent with the Leave message that the EU is to blame for everything (even things completely under our control). | |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 13:24 - Jul 21 with 2546 views | No9 |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 09:50 - Jul 21 by GlasgowBlue |
So what you are saying is our trade deficit with the EU is even larger? Smashing. All those tariffs should build a few more hospitals then. |
Your knowledge of the EU & international trade doesn't improve. |  | | |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 13:27 - Jul 21 with 2540 views | No9 |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 11:06 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue |
And that’s a perfect example of why we’re so divided. Top trolling by Dacre and his like, but with serious consequences. I don’t mean Brexit (although that could be serious enough), but where we’re heading a nation. The erosion of truth, disrespect and anger at anyone who dares to hold a different view, or to look or act differently. |
The brexiteers are truly testing 'democracy' in the UK, it is obvious from events that democracy doesn't matter to the right.
What is of more concern is that not enough people have worked out what is going on. | | | |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 13:33 - Jul 21 with 2530 views | No9 |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 12:19 - Jul 21 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
Yes agreed there is a cost and it may be a while before everything settles down.My point is the EU position seems to have been all along that this is so complex and we don’t want to make it easy for you, or for you to make a success of life outside that EU that you may as well stay (against your wishes).
It’s a clear message to the other 27 States that don’t you dare be as bold as the UK and look to leave, [Post edited 21 Jul 2018 12:38]
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Those 27 other nations have a say.
Maybe unlike the UK they have elected people to become MEP's who want to make things better? | | | |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 13:39 - Jul 21 with 2513 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 13:27 - Jul 21 by No9 |
The brexiteers are truly testing 'democracy' in the UK, it is obvious from events that democracy doesn't matter to the right.
What is of more concern is that not enough people have worked out what is going on. |
Shaming judges as ‘the enemies of the people’ and undermining established parliamentary process does seem to suggest they may not be as keen on democracy and sovereignty as they claim! | |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 13:47 - Jul 21 with 2497 views | Binner |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 09:50 - Jul 21 by GlasgowBlue |
So what you are saying is our trade deficit with the EU is even larger? Smashing. All those tariffs should build a few more hospitals then. |
Not really.
It'll be used to pay unemployment benefit to the factory workers of Sunderland, Swindon etc when our manufacturing industry relocates to continental Europe. Rather than build cars (for example) in UK and ship the vast majority over the channel with 10% tariff they'll build over there and just pay the 10% on the relatively few cars entering the UK market.
We're heading up the creek and Rees-Mogg and his ilk are insisting on jettisoning the paddles. | |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 13:48 - Jul 21 with 2493 views | No9 |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 13:39 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue |
Shaming judges as ‘the enemies of the people’ and undermining established parliamentary process does seem to suggest they may not be as keen on democracy and sovereignty as they claim! |
It is obvious that brexit has developed into something more fearful.
A look at the web site 'They work for you' & a review of how some MP's vote changes the perspective of UK politics.
As I posted recently I fear the more stable sections of the political world are now afraid of what tackling the right wing might mean and would it bring about serious social unrest.
In any other era Aaron Banks would be very closely watch and by now probably in detention until his links with 'other governments' was established. | | | |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 15:17 - Jul 21 with 2449 views | m14_blue |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 11:58 - Jul 21 by vapour_trail |
Yes indeed.
That’s why comments like “We have a trade deficit with the EU. Tariffs would hurt them more than us.” are both irresponsible and dishonest. But there’s been an economic dishonesty sold from the outset and it irrepressibly continues.
If people were a bit more honest, highlighted their perceived benefits on allowing fewer Europeans into the uk, and “taking back control” of the legislative agenda*, it would be much better all round.
*giving more control to the shower of sh1te currently running the shop is a mind numbing thought. |
Exactly, I would have far more truck with the brexiters if they were brave enough, and strong enough in their convictions, to say: "yes, it's going to be a bit of a nightmare financially but we think that's a price worth paying to have control of our borders, control of our laws and full sovereignty". I wouldn't necessarily agree but I would have some respect for that position.
However, the dishonest and frankly ridiculous trope that we can have our cake and eat it is just despicable. Particularly when it is being used by some of the richest in our society to persuade some of the most vulnerable. Of course Boris and JRM will be fine whatever happens, the same can't be said for many of the people they have tricked. [Post edited 21 Jul 2018 15:32]
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 15:46 - Jul 21 with 2423 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 13:47 - Jul 21 by Binner |
Not really.
It'll be used to pay unemployment benefit to the factory workers of Sunderland, Swindon etc when our manufacturing industry relocates to continental Europe. Rather than build cars (for example) in UK and ship the vast majority over the channel with 10% tariff they'll build over there and just pay the 10% on the relatively few cars entering the UK market.
We're heading up the creek and Rees-Mogg and his ilk are insisting on jettisoning the paddles. |
Jaguars already moving to Slovakia, having failed in several attempts to move production to India. Volvos are now made in China, etc, etc.
It’s only a matter of time before the manufacturing plants you talk about are lost anyway so I don’t see the big deal. The REAL compromise is the city of London.... with France Germany Ireland and Holland all hoping they can get a bit of that action |  | | |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 15:54 - Jul 21 with 2413 views | NewcyBlue |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 09:50 - Jul 21 by GlasgowBlue |
So what you are saying is our trade deficit with the EU is even larger? Smashing. All those tariffs should build a few more hospitals then. |
We don’t need tariffs to build the new hospitals. We’re going to give the £350mn weekly EU payment to the NHS.
The picture has been posted on here thousands of times, unequivocally showing Boris standing next to a Vote Leave board saying “Let’s give our NHS the £350 Million the EU takes every week” |  |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 15:54 - Jul 21 with 2412 views | jimmyvet |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 11:58 - Jul 21 by vapour_trail |
Yes indeed.
That’s why comments like “We have a trade deficit with the EU. Tariffs would hurt them more than us.” are both irresponsible and dishonest. But there’s been an economic dishonesty sold from the outset and it irrepressibly continues.
If people were a bit more honest, highlighted their perceived benefits on allowing fewer Europeans into the uk, and “taking back control” of the legislative agenda*, it would be much better all round.
*giving more control to the shower of sh1te currently running the shop is a mind numbing thought. |
There are more experts on this subject that frequent this forum than the whole
of the uk i think. Both sides know all the answers can see into the future and get most of their facts and opinions from whatever web site or newspaper they read.
If only we used the experts on here to sort this muddle out it would be solved swiftly and to everyones satisfaction. | | | |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 15:59 - Jul 21 with 2407 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 15:17 - Jul 21 by m14_blue |
Exactly, I would have far more truck with the brexiters if they were brave enough, and strong enough in their convictions, to say: "yes, it's going to be a bit of a nightmare financially but we think that's a price worth paying to have control of our borders, control of our laws and full sovereignty". I wouldn't necessarily agree but I would have some respect for that position.
However, the dishonest and frankly ridiculous trope that we can have our cake and eat it is just despicable. Particularly when it is being used by some of the richest in our society to persuade some of the most vulnerable. Of course Boris and JRM will be fine whatever happens, the same can't be said for many of the people they have tricked. [Post edited 21 Jul 2018 15:32]
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You'll find that when I "came out" in April 2016 I said exactly what you are suggesting in your first paragraph.
However, the very fact that we have a massive trade deficit with the EU is a very good bargaining tool if the government were serious about walking away with no deal. As it is the EU know that May won't do that.
I also said that the negotiating team should be made up of the best from all sides of the HOC.
My personal opinion is that May has no intention of negotiating anything other being a member of the EU in all but name and we will have another referendum in ten years to rejoin properly.
When we are long gone there will be a statue of May erected in Brussels in honour of her saving the UK from leaving the EU. |  |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 16:05 - Jul 21 with 2385 views | J2BLUE |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 15:59 - Jul 21 by GlasgowBlue |
You'll find that when I "came out" in April 2016 I said exactly what you are suggesting in your first paragraph.
However, the very fact that we have a massive trade deficit with the EU is a very good bargaining tool if the government were serious about walking away with no deal. As it is the EU know that May won't do that.
I also said that the negotiating team should be made up of the best from all sides of the HOC.
My personal opinion is that May has no intention of negotiating anything other being a member of the EU in all but name and we will have another referendum in ten years to rejoin properly.
When we are long gone there will be a statue of May erected in Brussels in honour of her saving the UK from leaving the EU. |
Ten years? Six months I reckon. |  |
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| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 16:09 - Jul 21 with 2381 views | m14_blue |
| Daily Mail headline on Saturday on 15:59 - Jul 21 by GlasgowBlue |
You'll find that when I "came out" in April 2016 I said exactly what you are suggesting in your first paragraph.
However, the very fact that we have a massive trade deficit with the EU is a very good bargaining tool if the government were serious about walking away with no deal. As it is the EU know that May won't do that.
I also said that the negotiating team should be made up of the best from all sides of the HOC.
My personal opinion is that May has no intention of negotiating anything other being a member of the EU in all but name and we will have another referendum in ten years to rejoin properly.
When we are long gone there will be a statue of May erected in Brussels in honour of her saving the UK from leaving the EU. |
Yes, you did. I wasn't really referring to people on here, more the people that led the campaign and are now pushing for a hard Brexit. | | | |
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