| Couple of bits of youth football news.... 09:37 - Sep 11 with 4687 views | itfcjoe |
....neither particularly relevant to ITFC but thought I'd share anyway.
Charlton have just lost Jeremy Sarmiento, who looks absolute class and is an England team mate of Ben Knight, to Benfica. I'd imagine they will have picked up a fee of about £100k with no top ups coming due to him going abroad. This is what Evans was talking about in his piece last week - if players go abroad, tribunal costs go out the window so you really are over a barrel.
The England age group of 2002 born have seen a huge number of 'transfers' already:
Matthew Bondswell - Nottm Forest to RB Leipzig
Rafael Garcia - Fulham to Everton
Sam Greenwood - Sunderland to Arsenal
Ben Knight - Ipswich to Man City
Noni Madueke - Tottenham to PSV
Louie Moulden - Liverpool to Man city
Charlie McCann - Coventry to Man Utd
Armstrong Okoflex - Arsenal to Celtic
Jeremy Sarmiento - Charlton to Benfica
Benni Smales-Braithwaite - Man City to Southampton
Daniel Jinadu - Chelsea to West Ham
And seems to be plenty more in the pipeline. Players moving to 'lesser' clubs when big clubs want them for opportunities, players moving to better academies, players going abroad - this is likely to be more common going forwards.
Also, Marcelo Flores played for Arsenal against Palace this weekend so presumbaly this has completed. Someone who was there text me to tell me that he is 'very, very good'. Frustrating.
And in stranger news, all EFL clubs have to have at least one player in their matchday squad who has come through the academy at the club as part of a new rule.
On the bench for Peterborough this weekend was 41 year old goalkeeping coach Mark Tyler (those of you who used to play Champ Man will remember him) as their designated youth player |  |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 09:40 - Sep 11 with 4198 views | Kieran_Knows |
Interesting, thanks for posting Joe. I've particularly been looking out for the English lads moving abroad the last couple of months, decent moves for Bondswell and Madueke.
Your last point about Peterborough and Tyler, that's just absurd. How is that beneficial at all? |  |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 09:44 - Sep 11 with 4176 views | bluewein |
Don't worry, Tim Sherwood has a plan...
Oh... |  |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 09:44 - Sep 11 with 4183 views | itfcjoe |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 09:40 - Sep 11 by Kieran_Knows |
Interesting, thanks for posting Joe. I've particularly been looking out for the English lads moving abroad the last couple of months, decent moves for Bondswell and Madueke.
Your last point about Peterborough and Tyler, that's just absurd. How is that beneficial at all? |
As with any rule, people find a way round it to suit themselves - bad really.
English players abroad - I'll send you a link to a good forum for this... | |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 09:47 - Sep 11 with 4164 views | SW6Tractor |
Cheers for this Joe - updates on this are really interesting. |  | | |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:04 - Sep 11 with 4109 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
Out of interest Joe what is to stop this happening?
Man City want Ben Knight. We turn down £1m. Knight then agrees to go to Melbourne City, New York City or say just a club Man City form an agreement with (let's say Heerenveen) and we get £100k compensation.
City then buy the player shortly after for £200k, they get the player for less than they would have paid and the selling club gets a profit for barely playing a part. |  |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:14 - Sep 11 with 4071 views | Basuco |
Very Interesting, thanks for that, but with so many youngsters not getting a chance of first team football, it is getting to the point that going abroad is the best way to develop your game as a young English player these days. |  | | |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:19 - Sep 11 with 4052 views | itfcjoe |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:04 - Sep 11 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
Out of interest Joe what is to stop this happening?
Man City want Ben Knight. We turn down £1m. Knight then agrees to go to Melbourne City, New York City or say just a club Man City form an agreement with (let's say Heerenveen) and we get £100k compensation.
City then buy the player shortly after for £200k, they get the player for less than they would have paid and the selling club gets a profit for barely playing a part. |
I'm not sure there is anything - similar happened a few years back when Zeki Fryers went from Man Utd to Spurs and they couldn't agree a deal so he went to Standard Liege for nothing, then they sacked their manager and he signed for Spurs in january.
The son of David Hirst, George, was close to joining Leicester at one point for a fee of around £2m but SW pulled the plug. he has now signed for OH Leuven in Belgium....and guess which English club their owner owns and they are managed by Nigel Pearson....
It is all very, very murky out there - but it keeps clubs on their toes and the power has shifted back to the players - which taking my ITFC hat off, isn't a bad thing. | |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:20 - Sep 11 with 4044 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:04 - Sep 11 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
Out of interest Joe what is to stop this happening?
Man City want Ben Knight. We turn down £1m. Knight then agrees to go to Melbourne City, New York City or say just a club Man City form an agreement with (let's say Heerenveen) and we get £100k compensation.
City then buy the player shortly after for £200k, they get the player for less than they would have paid and the selling club gets a profit for barely playing a part. |
It's happening all over, most recently with George Hirst from Sheffield Wednesday. Leicester had been after him for a while, I think they even had offers turned down for him .... and then funnily enough this summer, after he had let his contract run down with Shef Wed, he happened to join OH Leuven in Belgium, who are also owned by the same people that own Leicester (they even have Nigel Pearson as their manager), which meant they had to pay b*gger all in compensation for him.
I wonder where he'll end up within the next season or 2? | |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:21 - Sep 11 with 4039 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:19 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
I'm not sure there is anything - similar happened a few years back when Zeki Fryers went from Man Utd to Spurs and they couldn't agree a deal so he went to Standard Liege for nothing, then they sacked their manager and he signed for Spurs in january.
The son of David Hirst, George, was close to joining Leicester at one point for a fee of around £2m but SW pulled the plug. he has now signed for OH Leuven in Belgium....and guess which English club their owner owns and they are managed by Nigel Pearson....
It is all very, very murky out there - but it keeps clubs on their toes and the power has shifted back to the players - which taking my ITFC hat off, isn't a bad thing. |
Hadn't seen this, just replied with the same below r.e Hirst! | |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:28 - Sep 11 with 4015 views | itfcjoe |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:21 - Sep 11 by Kieran_Knows |
Hadn't seen this, just replied with the same below r.e Hirst! |
Sheff Weds got what they deserved in fairness - ironically they have run out of cash and started playing the kids now their best one for a number of years has left! | |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:35 - Sep 11 with 3992 views | Keno |
"Players moving to 'lesser' clubs"
like Ben Knight obviously!! |  |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:39 - Sep 11 with 3972 views | ITFCBlues |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 09:44 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
As with any rule, people find a way round it to suit themselves - bad really.
English players abroad - I'll send you a link to a good forum for this... |
Im interested In this English lads abroad forum - can you provide the link here please?
Thanks |  |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:46 - Sep 11 with 3939 views | PhilTWTD |
Still no agreement on Flores I'm told, but as we know Town powerless to stop him going.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 11:03 - Sep 11 with 3870 views | itfcjoe |
I do think tales like these are a little bit apocryphal - like Tyrone Mings being released by Southampton because he was too small when reality is (from a friend who had a mate in academy at the time) that they had Luke Shaw and Matt Targett in the year below and they were already way ahead of him.
Ampadu was at England camps as an U15 and U16, he played for us as an U15. His Dad was/is a prominent youth coach at Arsenal. His Mother is Welsh, and his Father is effectively Irish through where he lived and was brought up although born in England. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Ampadu)
Every club had him on their radar, he had been at Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and probably more on trial - he isn't a player who slipped under the radar. He is a Welsh kid that they made a big play for and called up to their senior side when he was 16.
He looks an excellent player, but that from Tisdale seems a rewriting of history - ultimatley Wales offera quicker pathway to senior football for a lot of guys and can get players away from us as seem to have a great spirit in the camp and when most go there they don't want to leave.......but what can England do? | |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 11:09 - Sep 11 with 3829 views | Superfrans |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 11:03 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
I do think tales like these are a little bit apocryphal - like Tyrone Mings being released by Southampton because he was too small when reality is (from a friend who had a mate in academy at the time) that they had Luke Shaw and Matt Targett in the year below and they were already way ahead of him.
Ampadu was at England camps as an U15 and U16, he played for us as an U15. His Dad was/is a prominent youth coach at Arsenal. His Mother is Welsh, and his Father is effectively Irish through where he lived and was brought up although born in England. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Ampadu)
Every club had him on their radar, he had been at Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and probably more on trial - he isn't a player who slipped under the radar. He is a Welsh kid that they made a big play for and called up to their senior side when he was 16.
He looks an excellent player, but that from Tisdale seems a rewriting of history - ultimatley Wales offera quicker pathway to senior football for a lot of guys and can get players away from us as seem to have a great spirit in the camp and when most go there they don't want to leave.......but what can England do? |
Interesting stuff.
On your last point, I did wonder whether this might have parallels to the club game - a player playing for a league two/one club might have more chances to play (which would be attractive in the first instance) and would therefore develop faster than if he stayed with a club higher up. The likes of Rhodes, Marriott, Hourihane spring to mind from an Ipswich perspective. All went to lower divisions, got to play football regularly at a decent level and improved as a result, at a rate they arguably never would have had they stayed at Portman Road. |  |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 11:13 - Sep 11 with 3805 views | itfcjoe |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 11:09 - Sep 11 by Superfrans |
Interesting stuff.
On your last point, I did wonder whether this might have parallels to the club game - a player playing for a league two/one club might have more chances to play (which would be attractive in the first instance) and would therefore develop faster than if he stayed with a club higher up. The likes of Rhodes, Marriott, Hourihane spring to mind from an Ipswich perspective. All went to lower divisions, got to play football regularly at a decent level and improved as a result, at a rate they arguably never would have had they stayed at Portman Road. |
There is definitely an element of that, I also think that some of these players putting the cart before the horse are helping their situations out in the short and long term.
Ampadu impressing for Wales in senior internationals is much more noticeable to Sarri than Chalobah at ITFC playing for England U19s.
Everything seems to be a power struggle currently, the players are starting to win out a bit more, and with these guys like Woodburn, Brooks, Mepham getting senior caps and impressing they are getting themselves more in the public eye, and pushing careers on faster also. It's very interesting stuff to follow. | |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 13:01 - Sep 11 with 3638 views | PhilTWTD |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 11:03 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
I do think tales like these are a little bit apocryphal - like Tyrone Mings being released by Southampton because he was too small when reality is (from a friend who had a mate in academy at the time) that they had Luke Shaw and Matt Targett in the year below and they were already way ahead of him.
Ampadu was at England camps as an U15 and U16, he played for us as an U15. His Dad was/is a prominent youth coach at Arsenal. His Mother is Welsh, and his Father is effectively Irish through where he lived and was brought up although born in England. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Ampadu)
Every club had him on their radar, he had been at Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and probably more on trial - he isn't a player who slipped under the radar. He is a Welsh kid that they made a big play for and called up to their senior side when he was 16.
He looks an excellent player, but that from Tisdale seems a rewriting of history - ultimatley Wales offera quicker pathway to senior football for a lot of guys and can get players away from us as seem to have a great spirit in the camp and when most go there they don't want to leave.......but what can England do? |
Re Mings, it was him who said he was too short. From reading back seems he wasn't playing left-back at that age, presumably as Shaw and Targett were ahead of him in that role.
 "Too Small" Mings Set to Face Old Club 3rd Jan 2015 06:00Southampton’s decision to call time on Tyrone Mings’s spell with them could return to haunt them this weekend if the Town defender plays his part in an FA Cup shock.  2
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 13:03 - Sep 11 with 3623 views | itfcjoe |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 13:01 - Sep 11 by PhilTWTD |
Re Mings, it was him who said he was too short. From reading back seems he wasn't playing left-back at that age, presumably as Shaw and Targett were ahead of him in that role.
"Too Small" Mings Set to Face Old Club 3rd Jan 2015 06:00Southampton’s decision to call time on Tyrone Mings’s spell with them could return to haunt them this weekend if the Town defender plays his part in an FA Cup shock. 2
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That's what I mean, he has spun that line but the reality is he wasn't good enough at that time. | |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 13:12 - Sep 11 with 3584 views | MaySixth |
Thanks Joe |  |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 14:26 - Sep 11 with 3497 views | SmithersJones |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 11:09 - Sep 11 by Superfrans |
Interesting stuff.
On your last point, I did wonder whether this might have parallels to the club game - a player playing for a league two/one club might have more chances to play (which would be attractive in the first instance) and would therefore develop faster than if he stayed with a club higher up. The likes of Rhodes, Marriott, Hourihane spring to mind from an Ipswich perspective. All went to lower divisions, got to play football regularly at a decent level and improved as a result, at a rate they arguably never would have had they stayed at Portman Road. |
They were talking about this on 5Live a few weeks back and the question was something like "if your 16 year old son had the chance to sign for anyone, who would you advise him to sign for?".
Pat Nevin - who admittedly is not unbiased in these matters - said Chelsea, which surprised me (and the other presenters). But his rationale was that while said 16 year old might have limited chances of playing for Chelsea's first team, being an Academy Scholar at Chelsea gave you a much better chance of having a career playing professionally somewhere. The fact that the "somewhere" wasn't Chelsea was secondary.
Not sure if I agree with him but it was a perspective I hadn't considered before. | | | |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 14:32 - Sep 11 with 3482 views | hype313 |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 14:26 - Sep 11 by SmithersJones |
They were talking about this on 5Live a few weeks back and the question was something like "if your 16 year old son had the chance to sign for anyone, who would you advise him to sign for?".
Pat Nevin - who admittedly is not unbiased in these matters - said Chelsea, which surprised me (and the other presenters). But his rationale was that while said 16 year old might have limited chances of playing for Chelsea's first team, being an Academy Scholar at Chelsea gave you a much better chance of having a career playing professionally somewhere. The fact that the "somewhere" wasn't Chelsea was secondary.
Not sure if I agree with him but it was a perspective I hadn't considered before. |
You can see the rationale behind it, if as a club you got offered two players, one had been a youth player at Chelsea and the other at Chesterfield, who would you opt for, appreciate it's not as simple as that in the grand scheme of things, but that was what Nevin as alluring too.
I don't agree with him on this though. |  |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 16:21 - Sep 11 with 3400 views | itfcjoe |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 14:32 - Sep 11 by hype313 |
You can see the rationale behind it, if as a club you got offered two players, one had been a youth player at Chelsea and the other at Chesterfield, who would you opt for, appreciate it's not as simple as that in the grand scheme of things, but that was what Nevin as alluring too.
I don't agree with him on this though. |
I think I do, you are setting yourself up for a better career there than at a smaller club. | |
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| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 19:27 - Sep 11 with 3242 views | soupytwist |
| Couple of bits of youth football news.... on 10:46 - Sep 11 by PhilTWTD |
Still no agreement on Flores I'm told, but as we know Town powerless to stop him going.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I was told over the summer that the Flores family has moved house and they're now outside the geographical radius for him to be part of our academy. Is that still a thing? Funnily enough they're in the right area for Arsenal. At least one of the other Flores children is also interesting Arsenal, but that's a daughter so less relevant to us.
He was at Kesgrave High School, not sure if he turned up for the start of this term. |  | | |
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