| 2nd referendum 22:49 - Sep 19 with 11139 views | Bluefish |
Is the only possible next step. I would however pander to the morons and their democracy, I would give 2 options again but this time round I would demand that both sides are fully explained 1st. The options would be hard or soft brexit and I'm sat this as a fierce remainer, I would love to have remain as an option and run it again with clear definitions but it would never be accepted.
How can anyone that apparently believes in democracy not want this complete mess resolved by a public vote to clear it up? |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:00 - Sep 20 with 2247 views | StokieBlue |
| 2nd referendum on 11:53 - Sep 20 by pickles110564 |
When will you realise remain is not on the table. It could only be for hard or soft Brexit. |
Go on then, define hard and soft brexit.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:08 - Sep 20 with 2238 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| 2nd referendum on 11:43 - Sep 20 by StokieBlue |
I don't fall into either of your categories. I voted remain and thought the vote should be respected. I've held this position for a long time. However it's clear things have been poorly handled and the vote was based on very little information.
It's not asking the same question. It would be deal vs remain rather than leave vs remain. A subtle but hugely important difference I would say.
SB [Post edited 20 Sep 2018 11:46]
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Wasn’t pigeon holing you just musing that remainers who don’t like the outcome might be slightly easier to deal with than leavers who feel the result has been stolen away from them, that’s not an easy thing for any Govt to manage.
I take your point in the subtle difference in a new vote but I still think that the principle of leave has been determined I don’t think revisiting a vote with a remain question in will do us (as a country) any favours.
Sounds like we will have agree to differ on that. |  | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:12 - Sep 20 with 2233 views | pickles110564 |
| 2nd referendum on 12:00 - Sep 20 by StokieBlue |
Go on then, define hard and soft brexit.
SB |
Hard Brexit - WTO terms
Soft Brexit - still ruled by non elected fools, paying for them to get so drunk they cant walk straight. The rich elite still on the gravey train - the Blairs and Kinnocks who stood for leaving the EU but now taking the easy money thrown at them. |  | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:21 - Sep 20 with 2225 views | StokieBlue |
| 2nd referendum on 12:12 - Sep 20 by pickles110564 |
Hard Brexit - WTO terms
Soft Brexit - still ruled by non elected fools, paying for them to get so drunk they cant walk straight. The rich elite still on the gravey train - the Blairs and Kinnocks who stood for leaving the EU but now taking the easy money thrown at them. |
You've made a compelling case. It's much clearer now.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:22 - Sep 20 with 2226 views | legal_blue |
A referendum can either be irreversible or democratic.
It cannot be both.
Therefore, if you claim that it would be undemocratic to hold a second referendum, you are, in fact attacking democracy itself.
Time to stop the shambles and give the British people the chance either to accept the 'fruit' of over 2 years of negotiations, or reject it and remain in the European Union. |  | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:23 - Sep 20 with 2222 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 2nd referendum on 12:12 - Sep 20 by pickles110564 |
Hard Brexit - WTO terms
Soft Brexit - still ruled by non elected fools, paying for them to get so drunk they cant walk straight. The rich elite still on the gravey train - the Blairs and Kinnocks who stood for leaving the EU but now taking the easy money thrown at them. |
You are going to be sorely disappointed if you think leaving will in any way rid us of the "rich elite still on the gravey train". Wherever there's disruption there's an opportunity for the well connected and well to do (like those funding and leading the Leave camp) to make more money. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:26 - Sep 20 with 2217 views | pickles110564 |
| 2nd referendum on 12:23 - Sep 20 by Swansea_Blue |
You are going to be sorely disappointed if you think leaving will in any way rid us of the "rich elite still on the gravey train". Wherever there's disruption there's an opportunity for the well connected and well to do (like those funding and leading the Leave camp) to make more money. |
Will they still get paid by the EU when we stop our contributions?
Are some of you so blind you cannot see why they want us to stay part of this dictatorship? | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:28 - Sep 20 with 2208 views | J2BLUE |
| 2nd referendum on 11:10 - Sep 20 by No9 |
It is not democratic to ignore the way the Scots voted is it?
It is not democratic for Northern Ireland to vote one way & Westmoinster to then include the DUP in the parliament count?
Now Ireland is being used a a pawn in the tory game of incompetence
None of that is democratic is it? |
It is democratic to 'ignore' the Scottish vote because Scotland are part of the UK and the rules of the referendum were that the UK was voting as a whole. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:31 - Sep 20 with 2199 views | MattinLondon |
| 2nd referendum on 12:26 - Sep 20 by pickles110564 |
Will they still get paid by the EU when we stop our contributions?
Are some of you so blind you cannot see why they want us to stay part of this dictatorship? |
Call me old fashioned but you do know that a dictatorship is? I’m pretty sure a half decent dictator wouldn’t respect the result of a democratic referendum. A democratic mutu-national organisation would but not a dictatorship |  | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:31 - Sep 20 with 2199 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 2nd referendum on 12:26 - Sep 20 by pickles110564 |
Will they still get paid by the EU when we stop our contributions?
Are some of you so blind you cannot see why they want us to stay part of this dictatorship? |
Yes. Farage gets his pension irrespective. Even though he had the worse attendance record of any MEP not signed off on the sick.
Dictatorship  | |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:33 - Sep 20 with 2199 views | pickles110564 |
| 2nd referendum on 12:28 - Sep 20 by J2BLUE |
It is democratic to 'ignore' the Scottish vote because Scotland are part of the UK and the rules of the referendum were that the UK was voting as a whole. |
The Scottish people had their chance to vote to go it alone but they decided they wanted to be part of the UK and accept the decisions the UK makes. | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:35 - Sep 20 with 2195 views | pickles110564 |
| 2nd referendum on 12:21 - Sep 20 by StokieBlue |
You've made a compelling case. It's much clearer now.
SB |
Dont think I can be much clearer, I will try again.
Hard Brexit - WTO terms
Soft Brexit - remain in the EU by the back door going against the will of the people. | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:37 - Sep 20 with 2187 views | J2BLUE |
| 2nd referendum on 12:33 - Sep 20 by pickles110564 |
The Scottish people had their chance to vote to go it alone but they decided they wanted to be part of the UK and accept the decisions the UK makes. |
For balance, they were told that remaining in the UK was remaining in the EU so their argument for another independence referendum is valid. Their rejection of the EU result isn't though IMO. | |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:37 - Sep 20 with 2187 views | ITFC_Aylesbury |
| 2nd referendum on 10:19 - Sep 20 by Chondzoresk |
As I am a half wit....you had better explain it to me, you seem to know. |
That's exactly the point - we're 6 months away from leaving and you don't even know what you voted to get yet.
That's a shambles, a con and a national embarrassment, all rolled into one.
And the best bit? When it all inevitably goes tits up, you Quitlings will crawl back out from under your rock and instead of taking responsibility for it all going wrong, somehow, it'll be the Remainers who are to blame because we didn't back Brexit or believe in Britain, or some other spurious reasoning.
You lot broke it, go and sort it out and stop expecting us to do it for you.
Oh, and you know how you spent 30 years undermining our membership? Don't be so surprised that we don't leap at sorting out your shtstorm! |  | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:38 - Sep 20 with 2185 views | pickles110564 |
| 2nd referendum on 12:31 - Sep 20 by Swansea_Blue |
Yes. Farage gets his pension irrespective. Even though he had the worse attendance record of any MEP not signed off on the sick.
Dictatorship |
Avoiding the question again. Everyone who has worked as a MEP should get their pension entitlement.
Will Blair and the others get their considerable handouts from the EU once our contributions stop? | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:44 - Sep 20 with 2169 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 2nd referendum on 12:38 - Sep 20 by pickles110564 |
Avoiding the question again. Everyone who has worked as a MEP should get their pension entitlement.
Will Blair and the others get their considerable handouts from the EU once our contributions stop? |
Eh? Avoiding what? And what do you mean "again"? I've already said yes, anyone entitled to EU pensions will get it. MEP salaries will obviously stop though.
Yes, the Kinnocks will get pensions they are entitled to whether we leave or not. What does Blair get from the EU? | |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:48 - Sep 20 with 2158 views | pickles110564 |
| 2nd referendum on 12:37 - Sep 20 by ITFC_Aylesbury |
That's exactly the point - we're 6 months away from leaving and you don't even know what you voted to get yet.
That's a shambles, a con and a national embarrassment, all rolled into one.
And the best bit? When it all inevitably goes tits up, you Quitlings will crawl back out from under your rock and instead of taking responsibility for it all going wrong, somehow, it'll be the Remainers who are to blame because we didn't back Brexit or believe in Britain, or some other spurious reasoning.
You lot broke it, go and sort it out and stop expecting us to do it for you.
Oh, and you know how you spent 30 years undermining our membership? Don't be so surprised that we don't leap at sorting out your shtstorm! |
The membership we were sold was to be part of a common market, not to be controlled by un elected fools, ruining our fishing fleet etc. | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:49 - Sep 20 with 2159 views | MattinLondon |
| 2nd referendum on 12:44 - Sep 20 by Swansea_Blue |
Eh? Avoiding what? And what do you mean "again"? I've already said yes, anyone entitled to EU pensions will get it. MEP salaries will obviously stop though.
Yes, the Kinnocks will get pensions they are entitled to whether we leave or not. What does Blair get from the EU? |
‘Blair get from the EU?
Probably everything in the paranoid and insecure minds of the Brexiteers. If not, they’ll make it up and mention WTO | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:51 - Sep 20 with 2150 views | J2BLUE |
| 2nd referendum on 12:49 - Sep 20 by MattinLondon |
‘Blair get from the EU?
Probably everything in the paranoid and insecure minds of the Brexiteers. If not, they’ll make it up and mention WTO |
I do think we'll stay in and eventually Blair will have a position of power within the EU. | |
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| 2nd referendum on 13:01 - Sep 20 with 2126 views | pbishop1799 |
And what would make this second vote binding? |  | | |
| 2nd referendum on 16:03 - Sep 20 with 2066 views | m14_blue |
| 2nd referendum on 12:35 - Sep 20 by pickles110564 |
Dont think I can be much clearer, I will try again.
Hard Brexit - WTO terms
Soft Brexit - remain in the EU by the back door going against the will of the people. |
So the only Brexit you would accept would be crashing out without a deal?
I'm pretty sure there wasn't a single leave campaigner who suggested that, in fact they went to huge lengths to convince us that it wasn't even a possibility given then 'they need us more than we need them' (guffaw).
There is absolutely no way anyone can claim they have a mandate for no deal Brexit from the referendum. Only a complete idiot would advocate that sort of self mutilation which, by the way, won't effect the rich elite at all but will be catastrophic for the most vulnerable.
And I don't want another referendum either, the decision is made and the damage is done. | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 16:17 - Sep 20 with 2052 views | pickles110564 |
| 2nd referendum on 16:03 - Sep 20 by m14_blue |
So the only Brexit you would accept would be crashing out without a deal?
I'm pretty sure there wasn't a single leave campaigner who suggested that, in fact they went to huge lengths to convince us that it wasn't even a possibility given then 'they need us more than we need them' (guffaw).
There is absolutely no way anyone can claim they have a mandate for no deal Brexit from the referendum. Only a complete idiot would advocate that sort of self mutilation which, by the way, won't effect the rich elite at all but will be catastrophic for the most vulnerable.
And I don't want another referendum either, the decision is made and the damage is done. |
It is not crashing out with a deal, we will be under WTO.
It was explained clearly at the time if we voted Leave it would mean leave in its entirety.
It did not say that we would still be under their rules and jurisdiction. | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 16:31 - Sep 20 with 2041 views | m14_blue |
| 2nd referendum on 16:17 - Sep 20 by pickles110564 |
It is not crashing out with a deal, we will be under WTO.
It was explained clearly at the time if we voted Leave it would mean leave in its entirety.
It did not say that we would still be under their rules and jurisdiction. |
Could you provide a single quote from the campaign where it was explained that voting leave meant leaving without a trade deal and reverting to WTO please?
Having a trade deal with someone doesn't mean being under their rules and jurisdiction. | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 16:33 - Sep 20 with 2035 views | pickles110564 |
| 2nd referendum on 16:31 - Sep 20 by m14_blue |
Could you provide a single quote from the campaign where it was explained that voting leave meant leaving without a trade deal and reverting to WTO please?
Having a trade deal with someone doesn't mean being under their rules and jurisdiction. |
They all stated from the remain side that Leave meant Leaving everything.
Clegg also stated that it was a once in a lifetime voted which he now denies he said. | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 16:37 - Sep 20 with 2026 views | BraveDave |
| 2nd referendum on 16:17 - Sep 20 by pickles110564 |
It is not crashing out with a deal, we will be under WTO.
It was explained clearly at the time if we voted Leave it would mean leave in its entirety.
It did not say that we would still be under their rules and jurisdiction. |
As there was no Leave party that are now tasked with delivering on the referendum, I'm not sure who these people are who explained everything clearly. People listened to whichever leave campaigner said what they wanted to hear - there was no manifesto.
This is why people say voters did not know what they were voting for - nothing to do with the intelligence of the voter, but simply that everyone voted for their own personal reason. So, no, it was not explained clearly what leave would look like.
Why are you desperately clinging to something you know is a disaster? Very strange. | | | |
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