| Mrs May's red lines. 08:55 - Jan 17 with 10675 views | pickles110564 |
For such a long time all we have heard from Corbyn and his cronies, the SNP & LIbs is that Mrs May put red lines in place and will not move on them.
I find it funny that when Mrs May opens her arms and welcomes them in they all announce that they will not be moving on their own red lines.
Corbyn complains that he has not been included in discussions but when offered he wont attend, this just shows he just want to cause as much trouble as possible to try and get the keys to number 10.
There was a very good interview in Wakefield this morning (a very strong Labour area) and they all were upset that Corbyn has not backed the deal to leave the EU. [Post edited 17 Jan 2019 8:57]
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 08:58 - Jan 17 with 6935 views | m14_blue |
Labour have put, and are continuing to put, party before country.*
*please note, this is in no way a defence of May and the Tories, I just expect it from them. |  | | |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 08:59 - Jan 17 with 6925 views | homer_123 |
Given the DUP and Lib Dems and the SNP have all told May of their red lines in relation to discussions continuing about finding a resolution Corbyn has done the same...simy not face to face. |  |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:00 - Jan 17 with 6924 views | DanTheMan |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 08:58 - Jan 17 by m14_blue |
Labour have put, and are continuing to put, party before country.*
*please note, this is in no way a defence of May and the Tories, I just expect it from them. |
I don't understand why he doesn't go to talk and making the point then, just like basically every other party has said they are doing.
As you say, this is just party politics once again when we don't need it. So just another continuation of the past two years of mucking around. It takes us getting to cliff edge for people to start behaving like adults. |  |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:04 - Jan 17 with 6900 views | lowhouseblue |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:00 - Jan 17 by DanTheMan |
I don't understand why he doesn't go to talk and making the point then, just like basically every other party has said they are doing.
As you say, this is just party politics once again when we don't need it. So just another continuation of the past two years of mucking around. It takes us getting to cliff edge for people to start behaving like adults. |
it's because he's really not the sharpest. there is a negotiation to be had and corbyn has never negotiated anything in his life. he doesn't understand the process. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:07 - Jan 17 with 6884 views | Deano69 |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 08:58 - Jan 17 by m14_blue |
Labour have put, and are continuing to put, party before country.*
*please note, this is in no way a defence of May and the Tories, I just expect it from them. |
And Corbyn is putting himself before party and country. |  |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:07 - Jan 17 with 6887 views | jjblue84 |
Both sides have ‘red lines’ (silly political speak you wouldn’t use in normal life), it’s called the points they won’t budge on!! |  | | |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:21 - Jan 17 with 6848 views | Guthrum |
It's all a trap, an attempt to draw Corbyn into agreeing something which will discredit him in the eyes of the electorate and make it more likely for him to lose an election, perhaps even be ditched as leader.
The above may not actually be true, but it is plausible enough in the paranoic and tribal atmosphere of British politics that even the most ostensibly cooperative proposal must be treated with caution. Plus all coalitions have a senior and a junior partner - who would want to be the latter?
May's own dogged adherence to "red lines" is, in large part, an attempted sop to elements of her party who might (and did) rebel. |  |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:21 - Jan 17 with 6851 views | xrayspecs |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:07 - Jan 17 by jjblue84 |
Both sides have ‘red lines’ (silly political speak you wouldn’t use in normal life), it’s called the points they won’t budge on!! |
Red lines are commonly referred to in negotiations. It is what you are not prepared to negotiate.
The challenge we all face is that the red lines of the different UK political parties and even within individual parties are not mutually compatible.
Even if we can agree in the UK what we want, our red lines may not be compatible with those of the EU. | | | |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:25 - Jan 17 with 6830 views | WD19 |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:21 - Jan 17 by Guthrum |
It's all a trap, an attempt to draw Corbyn into agreeing something which will discredit him in the eyes of the electorate and make it more likely for him to lose an election, perhaps even be ditched as leader.
The above may not actually be true, but it is plausible enough in the paranoic and tribal atmosphere of British politics that even the most ostensibly cooperative proposal must be treated with caution. Plus all coalitions have a senior and a junior partner - who would want to be the latter?
May's own dogged adherence to "red lines" is, in large part, an attempted sop to elements of her party who might (and did) rebel. |
He is obviously a 'roll your sleeves up' kind of guy. If there is discrediting to be done, he is more than happy to just crack on and do it himself rather than rely on others to do the job. |  | | |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:28 - Jan 17 with 6816 views | lowhouseblue |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:21 - Jan 17 by xrayspecs |
Red lines are commonly referred to in negotiations. It is what you are not prepared to negotiate.
The challenge we all face is that the red lines of the different UK political parties and even within individual parties are not mutually compatible.
Even if we can agree in the UK what we want, our red lines may not be compatible with those of the EU. |
I've heard rumours that sometimes in negotiations people aren't always entirely straightforward about their red lines. i'm not saying people fib, but they might act a bit strategically and a red line turns out not to be entirely red after all. just saying. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:31 - Jan 17 with 6803 views | Guthrum |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:21 - Jan 17 by xrayspecs |
Red lines are commonly referred to in negotiations. It is what you are not prepared to negotiate.
The challenge we all face is that the red lines of the different UK political parties and even within individual parties are not mutually compatible.
Even if we can agree in the UK what we want, our red lines may not be compatible with those of the EU. |
Red lines can often be circumvented by substantial concessions.
Problem in this case is there are so many sets of red lines, of such incompatibility, that any major compromise will upset the apple cart somewhere else.
What really needs to be done is a calculation on what proposal can be put together which is tolerable to just enough people to get it through the HoC, irrespective of party lines. However, that last phrase is the most immoveable of stumbling blocks the way things currently stand - all leaders are desperately trying to hold their parties together over this most fragmentary of issues. Thus giving extremist rebels extra leverage. | |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:35 - Jan 17 with 6792 views | MattinLondon |
It’s like having a house party and not inviting certain types of people to it. And then when you finally realise that the party is going to be rubbish inviting them at the last minute. |  | | |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:37 - Jan 17 with 6776 views | jjblue84 |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:21 - Jan 17 by xrayspecs |
Red lines are commonly referred to in negotiations. It is what you are not prepared to negotiate.
The challenge we all face is that the red lines of the different UK political parties and even within individual parties are not mutually compatible.
Even if we can agree in the UK what we want, our red lines may not be compatible with those of the EU. |
More waffle meaning ‘May doesn’t know how to negotiate’! Get on with it!! | | | |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:40 - Jan 17 with 6766 views | xrayspecs |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:28 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue |
I've heard rumours that sometimes in negotiations people aren't always entirely straightforward about their red lines. i'm not saying people fib, but they might act a bit strategically and a red line turns out not to be entirely red after all. just saying. |
That can be true. Sometimes they are real, sometimes they can fall away.
The problem with the latter approach is it creates additional complexity in the negotiations and mistrust. If I change a red line, then it discredits any other stated red lines. | | | |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:41 - Jan 17 with 6766 views | Guthrum |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:21 - Jan 17 by xrayspecs |
Red lines are commonly referred to in negotiations. It is what you are not prepared to negotiate.
The challenge we all face is that the red lines of the different UK political parties and even within individual parties are not mutually compatible.
Even if we can agree in the UK what we want, our red lines may not be compatible with those of the EU. |
And on your last sentence, anything other than a further tightening of the UK stance (such as: "We want May's deal but with no backstop") is likely to find favour in Brussels. | |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:43 - Jan 17 with 6754 views | xrayspecs |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:31 - Jan 17 by Guthrum |
Red lines can often be circumvented by substantial concessions.
Problem in this case is there are so many sets of red lines, of such incompatibility, that any major compromise will upset the apple cart somewhere else.
What really needs to be done is a calculation on what proposal can be put together which is tolerable to just enough people to get it through the HoC, irrespective of party lines. However, that last phrase is the most immoveable of stumbling blocks the way things currently stand - all leaders are desperately trying to hold their parties together over this most fragmentary of issues. Thus giving extremist rebels extra leverage. |
They can, see my earlier reply.
I am not convinced there is a proposal that would command sufficient support across parliament or the general public.
The other challenge is that May is in a weak position so the other leaders are all attempting to impose their version of Brexit on her. Hardly a recipe for a collaborative agreement. | | | |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:45 - Jan 17 with 6746 views | xrayspecs |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:37 - Jan 17 by jjblue84 |
More waffle meaning ‘May doesn’t know how to negotiate’! Get on with it!! |
Not at all. May has interpreted the mandate from the referendum to mean that there are certain UK red lines. Parliament do not agree with her and the EU are not prepared to accept a proposal along the lines of the UK having access to the bits of Europe it likes without having the commitments that come with membership. | | | |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:45 - Jan 17 with 6744 views | Guthrum |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:35 - Jan 17 by MattinLondon |
It’s like having a house party and not inviting certain types of people to it. And then when you finally realise that the party is going to be rubbish inviting them at the last minute. |
Then they turn around and say they'll only come if there's free beer and the DJ will play exactly the sort of music they like and no other. | |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:50 - Jan 17 with 6731 views | Leaky |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:41 - Jan 17 by Guthrum |
And on your last sentence, anything other than a further tightening of the UK stance (such as: "We want May's deal but with no backstop") is likely to find favour in Brussels. |
I think that would find favour with most politicians here |  | | |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:53 - Jan 17 with 6725 views | xrayspecs |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:41 - Jan 17 by Guthrum |
And on your last sentence, anything other than a further tightening of the UK stance (such as: "We want May's deal but with no backstop") is likely to find favour in Brussels. |
I cannot see the EU moving on the backstop.
The Irish border has been one of their three key points from day one along with money and the rights of citizens. | | | |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:55 - Jan 17 with 6717 views | Guthrum |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:43 - Jan 17 by xrayspecs |
They can, see my earlier reply.
I am not convinced there is a proposal that would command sufficient support across parliament or the general public.
The other challenge is that May is in a weak position so the other leaders are all attempting to impose their version of Brexit on her. Hardly a recipe for a collaborative agreement. |
I think the very mildest form of Brexit, this so-called Norway Plus, would just about scrape through* if Labour didn't oppose it en bloc*. But May would then be blown away by the right wing of her own party.
* Even tho it is, in reality, just a slight downgrade on what we have as a member of the EU, but with less influence.
**Perhaps even then it could just about pass with support from Tory remainers, the SNP and maybe the LibDems, if only the ERG and Labour went against. | |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:56 - Jan 17 with 6714 views | jjblue84 |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:45 - Jan 17 by xrayspecs |
Not at all. May has interpreted the mandate from the referendum to mean that there are certain UK red lines. Parliament do not agree with her and the EU are not prepared to accept a proposal along the lines of the UK having access to the bits of Europe it likes without having the commitments that come with membership. |
I’m sure they’ll be happy to consider if there’s no other alternative! It’s called negotiation...if you can’t walk away you can’t negotiate! | | | |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:57 - Jan 17 with 6707 views | Guthrum |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:53 - Jan 17 by xrayspecs |
I cannot see the EU moving on the backstop.
The Irish border has been one of their three key points from day one along with money and the rights of citizens. |
Sorry, I meant that as an example of tightening.
If there was a relaxation on the Customs Union, then the backstop would become unnecessary. | |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:58 - Jan 17 with 6706 views | Guthrum |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:50 - Jan 17 by Leaky |
I think that would find favour with most politicians here |
Sorry, I meant that as an example of tightening. | |
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| Mrs May's red lines. on 10:01 - Jan 17 with 6693 views | Herbivore |
| Mrs May's red lines. on 09:55 - Jan 17 by Guthrum |
I think the very mildest form of Brexit, this so-called Norway Plus, would just about scrape through* if Labour didn't oppose it en bloc*. But May would then be blown away by the right wing of her own party.
* Even tho it is, in reality, just a slight downgrade on what we have as a member of the EU, but with less influence.
**Perhaps even then it could just about pass with support from Tory remainers, the SNP and maybe the LibDems, if only the ERG and Labour went against. |
I expect we'd start to hear Brexit voices for a second referendum should we end up with a Norway style deal on the table. |  |
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