| Plan B 19:41 - Feb 2 with 6724 views | Keaneish |
Where is it? We rightly pelted Mick for not having back up plans during games but today was ridiculous. The first time under PL I left the ground in a rage and still haven't calmed down despite a 2.5 hour drive home. He said he plays to win games yet with four strikers in the match day squad we persist with one up front when the system clearly needed changing.
I can accept that system against sides with strong midfields but Wednesday are a week side. We don't do anywhere near enough to hurt teams and we've persisted with one up front all season. Why? |  |
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| Plan B on 21:01 - Feb 2 with 1540 views | Ryorry |
| Plan B on 20:53 - Feb 2 by Mullet |
That's just putting words in my mouth. I said none of that.
But Evans should either have backed him and put those fans back in the box, or sacked him earlier. Especially once these paper thin little cherubs wouldn't let it rest when they knew he was going.
To put all that on Mick is as dishonest as you attributing all that to me previously. |
Eh? I haven't a clue what you're talking about now! I directly quoted a large chunk of your post, said I agreed with it, and that we'd have to agree to disagree about MM's relationship with fans, his boring style, and dropping attendances.
I've neither done nor said anything "dishonest". I'm completely baffled by you and think we should just ignore each other in future. I'm off to make my tea. |  |
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| Plan B on 21:01 - Feb 2 with 1537 views | pointofblue |
| Plan B on 20:53 - Feb 2 by Mullet |
That's just putting words in my mouth. I said none of that.
But Evans should either have backed him and put those fans back in the box, or sacked him earlier. Especially once these paper thin little cherubs wouldn't let it rest when they knew he was going.
To put all that on Mick is as dishonest as you attributing all that to me previously. |
The vocal minority were a disgrace, dragging the club down in the eyes of many neutrals and eventually disgusting the silent majority, particularly with the chants against Brentford. But the silent majority were still voting with their feet - declining attendances and a widespread acceptance that football at Portman Road was no longer entertaining.
It can easily be argued that Mick did the best he could with the resources available, especially looking back at last season through the prism of this year. But acknowledgement of the issues surrounding the sides and acceptance that he would be attempting to address it moving forward would have bought him some time with the majority of fans, I think. He dug his heels in, the fans dug their heels in being bored of what they were seeing and the rest is history.
As for who took over from him, certainly Hurst was nowhere ready to take over a club at this level with our structure, where the manager has a lot of control. |  |
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| Plan B on 21:25 - Feb 2 with 1500 views | Keaneish |
| Plan B on 20:18 - Feb 2 by Mullet |
Whereas you boys all come across as elephantine in comparison.
Imagine constantly abusing a bloke from the safety of a crowd and then crying about it months and probably years later. All whilst claiming he started it and is thin-skinned.
Getting rid of Mick has been the unmitigated disaster people said it would be. |
And keeping him would have emptied Portman Road by now. The man is a belligerent egotist who bored the life out of people. I fail to see how his failings are the fans fault. Despite yet another disappointing day today in a long, long line of disappointments, Portman Road does have a good feel about it these days and the noise is back. However, I think the realisation set in today that PL can't save us. | |
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| Plan B on 21:27 - Feb 2 with 1486 views | Bluefish |
| Plan B on 21:25 - Feb 2 by Keaneish |
And keeping him would have emptied Portman Road by now. The man is a belligerent egotist who bored the life out of people. I fail to see how his failings are the fans fault. Despite yet another disappointing day today in a long, long line of disappointments, Portman Road does have a good feel about it these days and the noise is back. However, I think the realisation set in today that PL can't save us. |
PR will be empty soon regardless. New managers = false dawns and increased Short term crowds. The low crowds were not Mick they were itfc and will return again just as they did under Hurst |  |
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| Plan B on 08:26 - Feb 3 with 1434 views | Mullet |
| Plan B on 21:01 - Feb 2 by Ryorry |
Eh? I haven't a clue what you're talking about now! I directly quoted a large chunk of your post, said I agreed with it, and that we'd have to agree to disagree about MM's relationship with fans, his boring style, and dropping attendances.
I've neither done nor said anything "dishonest". I'm completely baffled by you and think we should just ignore each other in future. I'm off to make my tea. |
"we'll have to agree to disagree re MM's time being up in terms of his relationship with fans, style of play which was boring people -> falling attendances etc."
He can't disagree on something, let alone several things I didn't say. That's totally dishonest and typical of you to react this way to it being pointed out. |  |
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| Plan B on 08:39 - Feb 3 with 1420 views | agentp |
| Plan B on 20:12 - Feb 2 by judespiveyg |
For a supposedly thick-skinned Yorkshireman he did seem awfully sensitive to criticism. |
The abuse MM received at times should have been dealt with in court. | |
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| Plan B on 08:52 - Feb 3 with 1405 views | Mullet |
| Plan B on 21:25 - Feb 2 by Keaneish |
And keeping him would have emptied Portman Road by now. The man is a belligerent egotist who bored the life out of people. I fail to see how his failings are the fans fault. Despite yet another disappointing day today in a long, long line of disappointments, Portman Road does have a good feel about it these days and the noise is back. However, I think the realisation set in today that PL can't save us. |
That's not really true is it?
Our average attendance was up by 1000 before Xmas, the only big club following we'd not had was Leeds, and there were 2 manager bounces and that WBA game etc.
I'd say by the end of the season average attendances will be negligible at best. They might even slip below.
"The man is a belligerent egotist" it's this sort of nonsense which is the problem. Why shouldn't he have fought his corner exactly? His failings aren't the fans faults. But the ones entirely made up by the fans aren't.
Compared to now, his "failings" look even more exaggerated than they were then. | |
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| Plan B on 11:10 - Feb 3 with 1336 views | Keaneish |
| Plan B on 08:52 - Feb 3 by Mullet |
That's not really true is it?
Our average attendance was up by 1000 before Xmas, the only big club following we'd not had was Leeds, and there were 2 manager bounces and that WBA game etc.
I'd say by the end of the season average attendances will be negligible at best. They might even slip below.
"The man is a belligerent egotist" it's this sort of nonsense which is the problem. Why shouldn't he have fought his corner exactly? His failings aren't the fans faults. But the ones entirely made up by the fans aren't.
Compared to now, his "failings" look even more exaggerated than they were then. |
Quite simply because he has a responsibility to conduct himself in a manner representing his stature in the community. The mayor of Ipswich wouldn't come out and flick the Vs up at citizens if they were disgruntled after voicing their disatisfaction.
As for attendances, yes, it is true. Attendances were sliding, fast and season ticket sale projections for the following season were low. The simple undeniable fact is that MM divided the fan base which caused disharmony. The beautiful irony which shows how bad MM's stature was toward the end is that now we're dead certs to down under a former Norwich manager, the fan base is united and the atmosphere, excellent.
I don't think anyone denies MM was solid for the club. However, his short comings became intolerable and change was needed. On a personal level, as I said on a thread years ago, I'd rather change and struggle with an uncertain future than follow a manager who killed my enjoyment of following my club up and down the country. | |
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| Plan B on 11:11 - Feb 3 with 1335 views | Pecker |
We could have plans A-Z and we were still never going to be good enough. |  | | |
| Plan B on 11:15 - Feb 3 with 1328 views | Mullet |
| Plan B on 11:10 - Feb 3 by Keaneish |
Quite simply because he has a responsibility to conduct himself in a manner representing his stature in the community. The mayor of Ipswich wouldn't come out and flick the Vs up at citizens if they were disgruntled after voicing their disatisfaction.
As for attendances, yes, it is true. Attendances were sliding, fast and season ticket sale projections for the following season were low. The simple undeniable fact is that MM divided the fan base which caused disharmony. The beautiful irony which shows how bad MM's stature was toward the end is that now we're dead certs to down under a former Norwich manager, the fan base is united and the atmosphere, excellent.
I don't think anyone denies MM was solid for the club. However, his short comings became intolerable and change was needed. On a personal level, as I said on a thread years ago, I'd rather change and struggle with an uncertain future than follow a manager who killed my enjoyment of following my club up and down the country. |
He's not a representative of the community. That's another false equivalence.
The fanbase is hardly united is it? Just look around here, social media and the schism now reappearing.
Unity came from the abject misery of Hurst, after Mick you had people still singing about him and squabbles in the stand even at Forest etc.
His "shortcomings" were projections of the inadequates berating him it seems. | |
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| Plan B on 12:28 - Feb 3 with 1305 views | Ryorry |
| Plan B on 08:26 - Feb 3 by Mullet |
"we'll have to agree to disagree re MM's time being up in terms of his relationship with fans, style of play which was boring people -> falling attendances etc."
He can't disagree on something, let alone several things I didn't say. That's totally dishonest and typical of you to react this way to it being pointed out. |
I'm sorry but you'e simply revealing yourself as utterly ridiculous here, and even worse, choosing to blatantly & clearly just downright lie about me.
What I did was no more than quote your own exact words - to which your reply was "That's just putting words in my mouth. I said none of that. "  . I then said that I agreed with those words of yours! and I finished by saying that "we'll have to agree to disagree re MM's time being up in terms of his relationship with fans, style of play which was boring people -> falling attendances etc."
How you can interpret that as "totally dishonest and typical of you to react this way to it being pointed out" is beyond bizarre, and quite frankly, utterly despicable. I notice that you also ignore my polite suggestion that we just ignore each other. | |
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| Plan B on 12:32 - Feb 3 with 1295 views | Mullet |
| Plan B on 12:28 - Feb 3 by Ryorry |
I'm sorry but you'e simply revealing yourself as utterly ridiculous here, and even worse, choosing to blatantly & clearly just downright lie about me.
What I did was no more than quote your own exact words - to which your reply was "That's just putting words in my mouth. I said none of that. " . I then said that I agreed with those words of yours! and I finished by saying that "we'll have to agree to disagree re MM's time being up in terms of his relationship with fans, style of play which was boring people -> falling attendances etc."
How you can interpret that as "totally dishonest and typical of you to react this way to it being pointed out" is beyond bizarre, and quite frankly, utterly despicable. I notice that you also ignore my polite suggestion that we just ignore each other. |
Probably because as I've already said, I didn't say any of the things you're claiming to "agree to disagree" about.
The fact you've reported it as abuse suggests you know it too, frankly. I can only assume you want the thread pulled, which is rather dramatic and wasting Phil and Gav's time. | |
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| Plan B on 12:39 - Feb 3 with 1281 views | Ryorry |
| Plan B on 12:32 - Feb 3 by Mullet |
Probably because as I've already said, I didn't say any of the things you're claiming to "agree to disagree" about.
The fact you've reported it as abuse suggests you know it too, frankly. I can only assume you want the thread pulled, which is rather dramatic and wasting Phil and Gav's time. |
1. When debating, it's 100% normal practice for reasonable people (well most of them anyway) to "agree to disagree" where clearly no resolution to the disagreement is likely. It saves a pointless waste of time in continuation.
2. It hadn't even occurred to me that the thread could get pulled as a result of my reporting your post as abusive - only you thought of that one. I've always been happy to put my hand up quickly where I've been wrong, but I'm never going to put up with anyone calling me "dishonest", as you did in two posts, where I absolutely have not been.
3. If you look back at p1 of this thread you'll find you did say
a) "The bloke (MM) who switched to 3-5-2 and certain fans took the credit for?" (posted by you at 19.52 yesterday).
b) "Whereas you boys all come across as elephantine in comparison.
Imagine constantly abusing a bloke from the safety of a crowd and then crying about it months and probably years later. All whilst claiming he started it and is thin-skinned. (posted by you at 20.18 yesterday).
Not to mention other threads where we'd both been discussing those & other things relating to MM's tenure at/departure from PR, esp artboss's on "Mick outers".
Edit: Looking back at this with the perspective of 1 day now, your posts above come across as a thoroughly twisted form of bullying. Why on earth I'd have wanted the thread to be pulled, esp when I actually agreed with the OP, I have no idea.
[Post edited 4 Feb 2019 12:13]
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| Plan B on 13:28 - Feb 3 with 1244 views | Keaneish |
| Plan B on 11:15 - Feb 3 by Mullet |
He's not a representative of the community. That's another false equivalence.
The fanbase is hardly united is it? Just look around here, social media and the schism now reappearing.
Unity came from the abject misery of Hurst, after Mick you had people still singing about him and squabbles in the stand even at Forest etc.
His "shortcomings" were projections of the inadequates berating him it seems. |
Any football manager who runs a club which is so vital and integral to the community of the town, of which ITFC clearly is, is a major community figurehead. How is that debatable? Look at all the work the club does in the community to help disadvantaged people for example.
Fan base isn't united? Compared to the last half a decade at least, it's the best it's been. Anecdotal social media soundbites aren't much evidence to base a disagreement on. The noise coming from the SBL yesterday is.
Why do you never acknowledge MM's weaknesses? | |
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| Plan B on 13:53 - Feb 3 with 1218 views | Mullet |
| Plan B on 13:28 - Feb 3 by Keaneish |
Any football manager who runs a club which is so vital and integral to the community of the town, of which ITFC clearly is, is a major community figurehead. How is that debatable? Look at all the work the club does in the community to help disadvantaged people for example.
Fan base isn't united? Compared to the last half a decade at least, it's the best it's been. Anecdotal social media soundbites aren't much evidence to base a disagreement on. The noise coming from the SBL yesterday is.
Why do you never acknowledge MM's weaknesses? |
I did every week he was here.
Where was your condemnation of Luke Chambers when he swore on Sky out of interest?
How has the club's community work got anything to do with the manager? That's like blaming the canteen staff for a poor substitution. | |
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| Plan B on 14:19 - Feb 3 with 1192 views | Herbivore |
| Plan B on 08:26 - Feb 3 by Mullet |
"we'll have to agree to disagree re MM's time being up in terms of his relationship with fans, style of play which was boring people -> falling attendances etc."
He can't disagree on something, let alone several things I didn't say. That's totally dishonest and typical of you to react this way to it being pointed out. |
Abuse reported for this? Blimey. |  |
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