| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement 11:06 - Feb 12 with 1504 views | giant_stow |
When people worry about the backstop potentially keeping us in a customs union forever, how can this be enforced?
What I don;t understand is how a country can be held to an agreement it makes at one point in time, for ever more, when it's governments may change many times over?
Is it just a case of protection our reputation for abiding by what we've signed up to?
[Post edited 12 Feb 2019 11:07]
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:13 - Feb 12 with 1481 views | Guthrum |
If one part of the agreement is unilaterally abrogated, the whole lot goes (same as any other treaty). For example, fishing rights, the status of Gibraltar, customs and financial arrangements.
The backstop only comes into force, however, if no trade deal is forged within the two years of the Withdrawal Agreement. Even in that case, it will cease as soon as one is made. |  |
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:16 - Feb 12 with 1467 views | Mullysplace1 |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:13 - Feb 12 by Guthrum |
If one part of the agreement is unilaterally abrogated, the whole lot goes (same as any other treaty). For example, fishing rights, the status of Gibraltar, customs and financial arrangements.
The backstop only comes into force, however, if no trade deal is forged within the two years of the Withdrawal Agreement. Even in that case, it will cease as soon as one is made. |
First guy to explain it with any sense on here. Well done that man. |  | | |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:20 - Feb 12 with 1449 views | giant_stow |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:13 - Feb 12 by Guthrum |
If one part of the agreement is unilaterally abrogated, the whole lot goes (same as any other treaty). For example, fishing rights, the status of Gibraltar, customs and financial arrangements.
The backstop only comes into force, however, if no trade deal is forged within the two years of the Withdrawal Agreement. Even in that case, it will cease as soon as one is made. |
Thanks fella. So if I understand correctly, breaking the backstop / customs would cause us to revert to a hard brexit position, except an even more narky one? | |
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:33 - Feb 12 with 1420 views | No9 |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:13 - Feb 12 by Guthrum |
If one part of the agreement is unilaterally abrogated, the whole lot goes (same as any other treaty). For example, fishing rights, the status of Gibraltar, customs and financial arrangements.
The backstop only comes into force, however, if no trade deal is forged within the two years of the Withdrawal Agreement. Even in that case, it will cease as soon as one is made. |
& the negotiations have not yet started - if the government can't agree on the basics how can they agree on anything else
Other than push things through the HoC without debate which is what they had planned all along were it not for Gina Miller? |  | | |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:34 - Feb 12 with 1418 views | GavTWTD |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:13 - Feb 12 by Guthrum |
If one part of the agreement is unilaterally abrogated, the whole lot goes (same as any other treaty). For example, fishing rights, the status of Gibraltar, customs and financial arrangements.
The backstop only comes into force, however, if no trade deal is forged within the two years of the Withdrawal Agreement. Even in that case, it will cease as soon as one is made. |
I have been wondering why we haven't started the trade agreement already, as this would render the backstop irrelevent. Or is that too simplistic? |  |
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:45 - Feb 12 with 1396 views | No9 |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:34 - Feb 12 by GavTWTD |
I have been wondering why we haven't started the trade agreement already, as this would render the backstop irrelevent. Or is that too simplistic? |
EU T's & C's +UK's red lines | | | |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:52 - Feb 12 with 1385 views | BOjK |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:34 - Feb 12 by GavTWTD |
I have been wondering why we haven't started the trade agreement already, as this would render the backstop irrelevent. Or is that too simplistic? |
It shows what a farce the whole thing is.
We've negotiated a 2 year "transition/implementation period" with the idea that that time will be used by business, customs and others to transition to this brave new world of trading freedom and immigration restrictions.
But of course we are no nearer knowing what our trading relationship was with the EU than we were on the day of the referendum. There is nothing to implement. Nothing to transition to.
Instead we are supposed to come up with a trade agreement in 2 years (spoiler: we won't be able to) and then transition to this new arrangement in no time at all.
Genius. |  |
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:54 - Feb 12 with 1374 views | No9 |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:52 - Feb 12 by BOjK |
It shows what a farce the whole thing is.
We've negotiated a 2 year "transition/implementation period" with the idea that that time will be used by business, customs and others to transition to this brave new world of trading freedom and immigration restrictions.
But of course we are no nearer knowing what our trading relationship was with the EU than we were on the day of the referendum. There is nothing to implement. Nothing to transition to.
Instead we are supposed to come up with a trade agreement in 2 years (spoiler: we won't be able to) and then transition to this new arrangement in no time at all.
Genius. |
Not to mention the fact the WTO members have not yet agreed to the UK having 'Preferred Nation' status
& getting that may take some time | | | |
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 12:11 - Feb 12 with 1352 views | Pinewoodblue |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:13 - Feb 12 by Guthrum |
If one part of the agreement is unilaterally abrogated, the whole lot goes (same as any other treaty). For example, fishing rights, the status of Gibraltar, customs and financial arrangements.
The backstop only comes into force, however, if no trade deal is forged within the two years of the Withdrawal Agreement. Even in that case, it will cease as soon as one is made. |
Any backstop is in place until a trade deal is agreed between UK and EU and the. ratified by each of they 27 nation plus the Belgian regions.
France has already made it clear any agreement must give French fishermen. the access to UK waters they currently enjoy, then there is the problem of Spain being awkward of Gibraltar, only last week they insisted on an addendum iindicateing Gibraltar is a colony of GB.
Anyone who thinks the backstop is for the short term is naive. |  |
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 12:16 - Feb 12 with 1341 views | itfc_bucks |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:54 - Feb 12 by No9 |
Not to mention the fact the WTO members have not yet agreed to the UK having 'Preferred Nation' status
& getting that may take some time |
Wait a minute - Liam Fox said that he had 40 trade deals, in the bag, to come into force the second after midnight on Brexit day...
Did he lie???
*Gasp*
https://www.businessinsider.com/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-th | | | |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 12:38 - Feb 12 with 1324 views | linhdi |
He has done one with the Faroe Islands already, and Switzerland is likely soon. Japan and Korea are going to be much later though as the first just signed a great deal with the EU and the second is playing hardball.
India are happy to agree a deal, but want (reportedly) 75,000 working visas a year. Economically sensible if we are closing the door on our neighbours, but politically awkward. | | | |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 12:47 - Feb 12 with 1315 views | matteoblue |
It's an interesting point that you make, because laws are technically only sovereign over the country from which they were made. This doesn't mean of course that countries don't abide by other 'laws' (agreed rules) of supranational organisations, because they do. But the answer to your question is really one of extremes, because although there would really have to be an agreement for us to leave the Customs Union, there would be nothing in UK law (at least there isn't at the moment, nor even in the Belfast Agreement) that would bind us to a customs union legally. However, the consequences of such a decision are what has to be considered so yes, it is certainly a consideration of our reputation if we broke such an important agreement. Who would want to sign up to future agreements with us, if we had a reputation of not keeping them? |  |
| We are Premier League, say we are Premier League! |
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 13:07 - Feb 12 with 1280 views | MalcolmBlue |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:34 - Feb 12 by GavTWTD |
I have been wondering why we haven't started the trade agreement already, as this would render the backstop irrelevent. Or is that too simplistic? |
That's because we agreed to the timetabling at the very beginning of the negotiations which stipulated that nothing was agreed till everything was agreed. The thinking was you can't negotiate the future partnership until the withdrawal was agreed upon, the UK agreed as they didn't think the leaving part would be a problem. I'm guessing that the UK hadn't even contemplated the impact the Good Friday Agreement would have on proceedings. Essentially if the UK wanted to go about things properly they shouldn't have triggered article 50 so quickly, something that was highlighted to the government at the time, as soon as they did this we had a very short window to reach agreements. |  |
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 13:25 - Feb 12 with 1261 views | MalcolmBlue |
See my taking on the situation is that this measure would be to protect organisations who rely heavily on importing and exporting, having a smooth transition or close partnership when we leave enables as frictionless a transition as possible, which in turn protects jobs and growth for both the UK and the EU. Ireland will lose out massively because of an event in which they had no control over, the EU will back them on this 100% as a No-Deal Brexit will have a huge impact on them and one of the benefits of being in the EU is that the EU will protect their members as much as possible. The same goes for any other EU Member State that trades with the UK. The likelihood is that it wouldn't be enforced forever, the backstop is just a mechanism to ensure there is a deal of some sorts. If the two parties needed to extend the transition period again because the trade deal was taking longer than expected I'm sure this request would be accommodated. The backstop is the backstop, it's not the preferred outcome it's the last resort. | |
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 13:27 - Feb 12 with 1258 views | Swansea_Blue |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 11:34 - Feb 12 by GavTWTD |
I have been wondering why we haven't started the trade agreement already, as this would render the backstop irrelevent. Or is that too simplistic? |
What we have been able to do is sign 'roll over' agreements to carry on trading on existing terms after the implementation period (in the case of us leaving via the Withdrawal Agreement) or in the case of a Hard Brexit on 29th March. In reality these tend to be similar but not quite as good as the exiting terms.
They did one yesterday with Switzerland :
[Post edited 12 Feb 2019 13:31]
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 13:46 - Feb 12 with 1236 views | No9 |
Fox & truth are strangers
History shows that | | | |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 13:52 - Feb 12 with 1224 views | No9 |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 13:07 - Feb 12 by MalcolmBlue |
That's because we agreed to the timetabling at the very beginning of the negotiations which stipulated that nothing was agreed till everything was agreed. The thinking was you can't negotiate the future partnership until the withdrawal was agreed upon, the UK agreed as they didn't think the leaving part would be a problem. I'm guessing that the UK hadn't even contemplated the impact the Good Friday Agreement would have on proceedings. Essentially if the UK wanted to go about things properly they shouldn't have triggered article 50 so quickly, something that was highlighted to the government at the time, as soon as they did this we had a very short window to reach agreements. |
The government should have reconised the importance of the Good Friday Agreement because it is set in international law.
More likely they were persuaded by what is now known as the ERG that this could be set aside (haven't they said as much over the 2 years?) not thinking the EU would stand full square behind the R.o.I?
Every aspect of managing brexit by this PM & her cabinet is a cock-up created by incompetence | | | |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 14:02 - Feb 12 with 1211 views | MalcolmBlue |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 13:52 - Feb 12 by No9 |
The government should have reconised the importance of the Good Friday Agreement because it is set in international law.
More likely they were persuaded by what is now known as the ERG that this could be set aside (haven't they said as much over the 2 years?) not thinking the EU would stand full square behind the R.o.I?
Every aspect of managing brexit by this PM & her cabinet is a cock-up created by incompetence |
Quite!
When you have a Brexit secretary who didn't realise the importance of the Dover-Calais crossing, a Northern Irish minister who didn't realise that nationalist supporting citizens as a rule wouldn't vote for the DUP or the UUP or a previous Brexit secretary who was in the post for 2 years and only clocked up 4 hrs of negotiating or having a culture, media and sport secretary who claims to have never read a newspaper (and the list goes on) lets face it the only thing they are all worried about is losing their jobs as they know they wouldn't stand a chance in the private sector with gross negligence on this scale. | |
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 14:46 - Feb 12 with 1182 views | Pinewoodblue |
| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 13:52 - Feb 12 by No9 |
The government should have reconised the importance of the Good Friday Agreement because it is set in international law.
More likely they were persuaded by what is now known as the ERG that this could be set aside (haven't they said as much over the 2 years?) not thinking the EU would stand full square behind the R.o.I?
Every aspect of managing brexit by this PM & her cabinet is a cock-up created by incompetence |
The Irish are being used by the EU the backstop is all about protecting EU interests and making sure the UK doesn't obtain a competitive advantage. Neither the UK nor Ireland want a hard border. The EU are protecting their interests.
It is more about getting the best deal for French fishermen amongst others. | |
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| A question about the mechanics of the brexit withdrawal agreement on 14:50 - Feb 12 with 1177 views | hoppy |
Is the withdrawal agreement something you and your sister decide for protection? |  |
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