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Has it snowballed? Or is antisemitism now being attached often clumsily to Corbyn with comments like "in Corbyn's name"? Is this just a continuation of pro-Palestinians automatically being called antisemites? Anyway, I've seen what you think about this before.
If you can spare the minutes to repeat yourself then you can spare the minutes to stop avoiding the point about Ryan.
yes it bloody has. STOP IT.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
Do you defend all MPs from criticism on here? Or just these 8?
It would seem that your definition of a personal dig is different to mine. I'm not commenting on their appearances or spouses.
I haven’t defended anything, just find it amusing that you were at pains to insist none of the defecting MP’s were being attacked, whilst simultaneously attacking them
I certainly haven’t noticed you digging up things to attack any other MP’s in the past couple of days, funnily enough. Again, presumably no instructions for those
Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Saying it doesn't make it so. That's just politician-speak.
Have a go at contributing to the thread in a meaningful way and addressing the points being raised.
your ideology really has pushed you to a very unpleasant place.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
i have neither the time or the inclination to watch some al jazeera video - thanks. i have not seen any serious source attach the weight to it that you do. it is only referenced by people like you who are searching for straws to cling to to excuse anti-semitism. you clearly take one al jazeera video as your opportunity to dismiss hundreds of reports of anti-semitism - that's what you're determined to do.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
i have neither the time or the inclination to watch some al jazeera video - thanks. i have not seen any serious source attach the weight to it that you do. it is only referenced by people like you who are searching for straws to cling to to excuse anti-semitism. you clearly take one al jazeera video as your opportunity to dismiss hundreds of reports of anti-semitism - that's what you're determined to do.
So both you and Glassers just won't watch it? Well, blow me down.
And please stop accusing me of excusing antisemitism as your constant fall back. I've never done that and it's just a transparent, smeary conflation to help you swerve things you're clearly incapable of addressing.
So both you and Glassers just won't watch it? Well, blow me down.
And please stop accusing me of excusing antisemitism as your constant fall back. I've never done that and it's just a transparent, smeary conflation to help you swerve things you're clearly incapable of addressing.
[edited to avoid wasting phil's time]
[Post edited 20 Feb 2019 18:05]
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
Where? I've had enough of your whole lying schtick.
so your oft repeated line that reports of ant-semitism are part of a conspiracy led by the israeli embassy - you don't think that involves excusing anti-semitism?
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
so your oft repeated line that reports of ant-semitism are part of a conspiracy led by the israeli embassy - you don't think that involves excusing anti-semitism?
Oft-repeated? I've never said that reports of antisemitism are part of a conspiracy led by the Israeli embassy.
I said that there are genuine incidents of antisemitism which are deplorable. Some others have also been fabricated or exaggerated. And collectively the evidence (genuine as well as not) has been used to create a particular antisemitism storm around Corbyn and his leadership of Labour. The pro-Israel lobby has played a part in that, yes, as have enemies of Corbyn within the Labour party, across the house, within a generally anti-Corbyn and anti-left media and on social media.
Aspects like Joan Ryan's fabrication, the bizarre treatment of Jackie Walker, Margaret Hodge's own 200 incidents that go against the very accusation that she's trying to make stick and the general unwillingness of people to even consider the agendas at work (that can also coexist with the entirely admirable agenda to eradicate antisemitism) mean there are reasons to want more a more truthful handling of events if we're going to address antisemitism and avoid spreading fear within the Jewish community.
With all that I despise the callous and manipulative way antisemitism appears to have become a political football rather than something we can and should all fight against.
Oft-repeated? I've never said that reports of antisemitism are part of a conspiracy led by the Israeli embassy.
I said that there are genuine incidents of antisemitism which are deplorable. Some others have also been fabricated or exaggerated. And collectively the evidence (genuine as well as not) has been used to create a particular antisemitism storm around Corbyn and his leadership of Labour. The pro-Israel lobby has played a part in that, yes, as have enemies of Corbyn within the Labour party, across the house, within a generally anti-Corbyn and anti-left media and on social media.
Aspects like Joan Ryan's fabrication, the bizarre treatment of Jackie Walker, Margaret Hodge's own 200 incidents that go against the very accusation that she's trying to make stick and the general unwillingness of people to even consider the agendas at work (that can also coexist with the entirely admirable agenda to eradicate antisemitism) mean there are reasons to want more a more truthful handling of events if we're going to address antisemitism and avoid spreading fear within the Jewish community.
With all that I despise the callous and manipulative way antisemitism appears to have become a political football rather than something we can and should all fight against.
great - we'll keep to the genuine incidents which are massively higher than before corbyn became leader, and which a very large proportion of labour mps, including the deputy leader, see as a fundamental challenge to the character of the party. but if the anti-semitism debate is being 'manipulated' by people who oppose corbyn, it is equally being 'manipulated' by those who want to defend him. once you accept that anti-semitism in labour is happening and at a much higher level than before then that's the reality we should all be focused on.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
great - we'll keep to the genuine incidents which are massively higher than before corbyn became leader, and which a very large proportion of labour mps, including the deputy leader, see as a fundamental challenge to the character of the party. but if the anti-semitism debate is being 'manipulated' by people who oppose corbyn, it is equally being 'manipulated' by those who want to defend him. once you accept that anti-semitism in labour is happening and at a much higher level than before then that's the reality we should all be focused on.
Has zed seen the Barry Gardiner speech? He won't be happy with this considering the man hours he's put in in here over the past few days.
Credit where credit is due, these are some fine, strong and emotional words from Barry Gardiner but we have heard millions of words before. It is action and only action that will prove to our community that Labour is serious about tackling antisemitism in the party! pic.twitter.com/z2FANwfL20
great - we'll keep to the genuine incidents which are massively higher than before corbyn became leader, and which a very large proportion of labour mps, including the deputy leader, see as a fundamental challenge to the character of the party. but if the anti-semitism debate is being 'manipulated' by people who oppose corbyn, it is equally being 'manipulated' by those who want to defend him. once you accept that anti-semitism in labour is happening and at a much higher level than before then that's the reality we should all be focused on.
Anti-semitism is operating at a higher level since 2014 and the Gaza invasion too. Add in to that the increase in social media use over the years, a tripling of the Labour membership under Corbyn, and a heightening of tension against all ethnic groups among the genuine population then of course there's been an increase. And much of which won't be pro-Palestinian and debatable. I'm sure there's more antisemitism on show.
But add in the zeal with which antisemitism is now looked for by many (Ryan's fabrication is an example of that from a leading player) and the historic trawling of social media and events to add further weight and perhaps the picture isn't in reality quite what is being portrayed.
The only black and white part is that antisemitism is unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated. But I find much of the stuff reaching beyond that is symptomatic of a need to smear and discredit which also is unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated.
On a side note, I don't really get Watson and who or what he's complaining about. Isn't he part of the leadership he's complaining about or it's an issue he himself should be doing more about? I don't get his statement apart from as a saying-the-right-things, political mea culpa (which as a politician he naturally projects in the vague direction of someone else.) You may have guessed by now that I have a problem with politicians whenever they speak on any subject.
Anti-semitism is operating at a higher level since 2014 and the Gaza invasion too. Add in to that the increase in social media use over the years, a tripling of the Labour membership under Corbyn, and a heightening of tension against all ethnic groups among the genuine population then of course there's been an increase. And much of which won't be pro-Palestinian and debatable. I'm sure there's more antisemitism on show.
But add in the zeal with which antisemitism is now looked for by many (Ryan's fabrication is an example of that from a leading player) and the historic trawling of social media and events to add further weight and perhaps the picture isn't in reality quite what is being portrayed.
The only black and white part is that antisemitism is unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated. But I find much of the stuff reaching beyond that is symptomatic of a need to smear and discredit which also is unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated.
On a side note, I don't really get Watson and who or what he's complaining about. Isn't he part of the leadership he's complaining about or it's an issue he himself should be doing more about? I don't get his statement apart from as a saying-the-right-things, political mea culpa (which as a politician he naturally projects in the vague direction of someone else.) You may have guessed by now that I have a problem with politicians whenever they speak on any subject.
[Post edited 20 Feb 2019 18:50]
watson is pretty isolated in the hierarchy. he also wants to distance himself from the leadership and to reinforce the impression that he is isolated from them. the inner core around corbyn would get rid of watson if they thought they could - they had a plan to introduce multiple deputies at the last conference - solely as an attempt to undermine watson's position. they couldn't do it then - but equally watson knows that they're waiting their chance. so he wants to establish distance from corbyn but not too much distance. i think he's pretty miserable about it.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
i have neither the time or the inclination to watch some al jazeera video - thanks. i have not seen any serious source attach the weight to it that you do. it is only referenced by people like you who are searching for straws to cling to to excuse anti-semitism. you clearly take one al jazeera video as your opportunity to dismiss hundreds of reports of anti-semitism - that's what you're determined to do.
"i have neither the time or the inclination to watch some al jazeera video"
Like i said, it's all one way traffic with you lot isn't it?
Several posters have admitted on several occasions that Labour has had a problem with anti-semitism but on the flip side when we'd like your opinion on a short video clip then you have neither the time or the inclination.
Has zed seen the Barry Gardiner speech? He won't be happy with this considering the man hours he's put in in here over the past few days.
Credit where credit is due, these are some fine, strong and emotional words from Barry Gardiner but we have heard millions of words before. It is action and only action that will prove to our community that Labour is serious about tackling antisemitism in the party! pic.twitter.com/z2FANwfL20
Yes, obviously I have seen this. I applaud Gardiner for taking an honest and pragmatic approach to the problem. Something which you are incapable of.
Notice that he's not stood there calling Corbyn an antisemite or making out that antisemites have crawled from under a rock to take over the party. I'm sure he also shares concerns over Joan Ryan's actions which have undoubtedly made the situation worse.
Joan Ryan has finally responded to the investigation (after months of ignoring questions)
Apparently it’s all a smear and none of the things she was talking about in the video happened. That puts that one to bed then.
Edit: video seems to have been taken down
[Post edited 20 Feb 2019 23:19]
If she wanted to see a two-state solution why isn't she campaigning for the recognition of Palestine as a state? Surely that is the first step? There of course cannot be one while one state is not a state...
Still waiting for this holier-than-thou group to disclose their funding, which of course they won't until they are forced to as a political party.
footers KC - Prosecution Barrister - Friend to all
Joan Ryan has finally responded to the investigation (after months of ignoring questions)
Apparently it’s all a smear and none of the things she was talking about in the video happened. That puts that one to bed then.
Edit: video seems to have been taken down
[Post edited 20 Feb 2019 23:19]
you really should listen to the barry gardiner speech. he's a corbynite loyalist but he's worked out that they need to address the problem and bring it to a close. but the momentum line seems to be the opposite and they're determined to just keep digging. keeping this as a live issue, denying the problem, linking it to israel, claiming that israeli money is behind the mps who've left, is a form of political self harm for momentum. so do keep up the good work eh.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
Joan Ryan has finally responded to the investigation (after months of ignoring questions)
Apparently it’s all a smear and none of the things she was talking about in the video happened. That puts that one to bed then.
Edit: video seems to have been taken down
[Post edited 20 Feb 2019 23:19]
I hope someone has the balls to pick her up on her involvement in those film clips.
And "Anti-Israel antisemitism"?
Is that antisemites who are anti-Israel or anti-Israel people being equated with antisemites? Trying to work that one out, but seeing how her mind works, I'm going with the latter.
you really should listen to the barry gardiner speech. he's a corbynite loyalist but he's worked out that they need to address the problem and bring it to a close. but the momentum line seems to be the opposite and they're determined to just keep digging. keeping this as a live issue, denying the problem, linking it to israel, claiming that israeli money is behind the mps who've left, is a form of political self harm for momentum. so do keep up the good work eh.
Well, just kick back and relax, my man! Momentum are doing all the damage themselves so why get involved?
I'm sure we'd all like a two-state solution, just seems your lot aren't interested in recognising Palestine to make that a reality. Weird, innit?
footers KC - Prosecution Barrister - Friend to all
great - we'll keep to the genuine incidents which are massively higher than before corbyn became leader, and which a very large proportion of labour mps, including the deputy leader, see as a fundamental challenge to the character of the party. but if the anti-semitism debate is being 'manipulated' by people who oppose corbyn, it is equally being 'manipulated' by those who want to defend him. once you accept that anti-semitism in labour is happening and at a much higher level than before then that's the reality we should all be focused on.
Absolute terms or percentage terms with working out please.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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