| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' 08:39 - Jul 25 with 52912 views | m14_blue |
Someone used this term on another thread and it really resonated with me.
It's always fascinated and mystified me how 'normal' Germans allowed the Nazis to perpetrate such evil but the exact same phenomenon is happening in the West at the moment, with 'the left' the new bogeyman.
Now, I'm not saying this will end the same way but the modus operandi is identical. They have control of the overwhelming majority of the printed media and have launched a relentless, vicious assault on the free press that present a balanced, or left leaning, view (the BBC, Channel 4, CNN etc).
You can see the evidence on this very site. There have always been a few far right English Nationalists but there are many who would consider themselves (and I would previously to have considered) to be normal people, decent people, who have been poisoned. They now spout nothing but hatred and bile, throwing around phrases such as 'Enemy of the people', 'traitor', 'treason' whilst being totally unable to explain why.
I challenge anyone to read the below text and deny the parallels. Scary times.
'Men like me were the greater offenders, not because we knew better (that would be too much to say) but because we sensed better. Pastor Niemöller spoke for the thousands and thousands of men like me when he spoke (too modestly of himself) and said that, when the Nazis attacked the Communists, he was a little uneasy, but, after all, he was not a Communist, and so he did nothing; and then they attacked the Socialists, and he was a little uneasier, but, still, he was not a Socialist, and he did nothing; and then the schools, the press, the Jews, and so on, and he was always uneasier, but still he did nothing. And then they attacked the Church, and he was a Churchman, and he did something–but then it was too late."
One doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?–Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.
You speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’
And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, the believers intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.
And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in–your nation, your people–is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.'
It's time for the liberal (small L) majority in this great country to unite and speak out against the rise of the right. We must not be cowed into silent compliance or things will continue to deteriorate until it is too late. [Post edited 25 Jul 2019 8:43]
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:10 - Jul 29 with 2359 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 14:34 - Jul 29 by Darth_Koont |
Jeez. That is really desperate stuff from you. |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:12 - Jul 29 with 2353 views | Herbivore |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:04 - Jul 29 by GlasgowBlue |
How in earth is that relevant? The language of fascism is wrong whether it’s written for one person of a million. As it happens the Word is a publication endorsed by the leader of the opposition.
“The Word. Our writers include Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and George Galloway”.
Why can’t you condemn racism when it comes from the left? You are very vocal when it comes from the right but take any Opportunity to trivialise, dismiss or excuse it from the left.
I’ve never once seen you start a thread on left wing racism. I’ve seen you start plenty from the right. [Post edited 29 Jul 2019 15:20]
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I think it's a valid question. What you're attempting to do here is create a false equivalence between awful language being used by a fringe left wing publication that nobody reads and that I'd never heard of until this afternoon, and the same kind of awful rhetoric being used and normalised by mainstream politicians and used and repeated within mainstream media. Both are awful, but that's not the issue. One voice has power and is normalising this kind of discourse with the wider public, the other is whispering into a comparatively tiny echo chamber.
I am sure you'll come back with a rant about me excusing racism on the left blah, blah, blah and totally miss the point but your false equivalence needs calling out. And for what it's worth I wholeheartedly condemn the language and message from The Word, I didn't start a thread about it because they don't remotely seep through into mainstream discourse, thankfully so by the looks of them. |  |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:15 - Jul 29 with 2345 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:12 - Jul 29 by Herbivore |
I think it's a valid question. What you're attempting to do here is create a false equivalence between awful language being used by a fringe left wing publication that nobody reads and that I'd never heard of until this afternoon, and the same kind of awful rhetoric being used and normalised by mainstream politicians and used and repeated within mainstream media. Both are awful, but that's not the issue. One voice has power and is normalising this kind of discourse with the wider public, the other is whispering into a comparatively tiny echo chamber.
I am sure you'll come back with a rant about me excusing racism on the left blah, blah, blah and totally miss the point but your false equivalence needs calling out. And for what it's worth I wholeheartedly condemn the language and message from The Word, I didn't start a thread about it because they don't remotely seep through into mainstream discourse, thankfully so by the looks of them. |
The difference between you and I is that I call it out from the right and the left. It’s disgusting whatever your political persuasion.
Tory Islamophobia or labour antisemitism. Just different cheeks of the same racist arsehole. Call out both ir you lack the moral high ground to call out any. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:20 - Jul 29 with 2338 views | Herbivore |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:15 - Jul 29 by GlasgowBlue |
The difference between you and I is that I call it out from the right and the left. It’s disgusting whatever your political persuasion.
Tory Islamophobia or labour antisemitism. Just different cheeks of the same racist arsehole. Call out both ir you lack the moral high ground to call out any. |
How's the view from that high horse? This thread isn't/wasn't really about racism, but I see you've managed to steer it that way again so you can saddle up your favourite hobby horse from atop your high horse.
Heaven forbid you should attempt to engage with a topic in a spirit of honesty and integrity. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:26 - Jul 29 with 2318 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:20 - Jul 29 by Herbivore |
How's the view from that high horse? This thread isn't/wasn't really about racism, but I see you've managed to steer it that way again so you can saddle up your favourite hobby horse from atop your high horse.
Heaven forbid you should attempt to engage with a topic in a spirit of honesty and integrity. |
Well sleepwalking into fascism is extremely relevant when there are people like you who excuse, trivialise or dismiss it when it gets a little too close to home. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:29 - Jul 29 with 2312 views | Herbivore |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:26 - Jul 29 by GlasgowBlue |
Well sleepwalking into fascism is extremely relevant when there are people like you who excuse, trivialise or dismiss it when it gets a little too close to home. |
Dishonest, disingenuous, pernicious. The first three words that come to mind when I read your posts. I think I'll go back to ignoring you, you're incapable of engaging in honest, adult dialogue. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:32 - Jul 29 with 2304 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:29 - Jul 29 by Herbivore |
Dishonest, disingenuous, pernicious. The first three words that come to mind when I read your posts. I think I'll go back to ignoring you, you're incapable of engaging in honest, adult dialogue. |
I see the truth hurts.
If I had a pound for every time you said you would ignore me I could buy a yearly subscription to the Word. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:33 - Jul 29 with 2303 views | Herbivore |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:32 - Jul 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I see the truth hurts.
If I had a pound for every time you said you would ignore me I could buy a yearly subscription to the Word. |
You'd probably double their readership. You wouldn't know the truth if it gave you a Glasgow kiss, dearest. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:39 - Jul 29 with 2289 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:33 - Jul 29 by Herbivore |
You'd probably double their readership. You wouldn't know the truth if it gave you a Glasgow kiss, dearest. |
Actually herbs I’m in the dentist at the moment so my pound for every time you said you were ignoring me could pay for my treatment. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:54 - Jul 29 with 2273 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 13:50 - Jul 29 by GlasgowBlue |
No. It a left leaning non Labour affiliated publication using the language of fascism whilst prominently featuring a Jew under the headline.
Left or right. That language is used in this country, which was Herbie's point.
You can't continue to call it out on one side whilst excusing the other. [Post edited 29 Jul 2019 13:50]
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Get a grip man it is clearly a parody of this....
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/03/thatcher-labour-miners-enemy-wi |  |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:57 - Jul 29 with 2267 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:15 - Jul 29 by GlasgowBlue |
The difference between you and I is that I call it out from the right and the left. It’s disgusting whatever your political persuasion.
Tory Islamophobia or labour antisemitism. Just different cheeks of the same racist arsehole. Call out both ir you lack the moral high ground to call out any. |
A visual representation of your 'calling out!'
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 16:18 - Jul 29 with 2246 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:57 - Jul 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
A visual representation of your 'calling out!'
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In your mind perhaps. But if you actually bother to look at my posting history you will find almost as many threads started by me in the last 12 months calling out Tory racism as there are threads started by me calling out labour antisemitism.
But your post does betray your own unconscious bigotry. I doubt very much that you would call out somebody from Afro Caribbean descent, with members of their family who are also Afro Caribbean, for prioritising the Windrush scandal or Black Lives matter over antisemitism or Islamophobia. Yet you are entirely comfortable calling me out for your perception that I prioritise antisemitism, despite being aware of my own family background.
That says an awful lot about you Banksy. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 16:29 - Jul 29 with 2229 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 16:18 - Jul 29 by GlasgowBlue |
In your mind perhaps. But if you actually bother to look at my posting history you will find almost as many threads started by me in the last 12 months calling out Tory racism as there are threads started by me calling out labour antisemitism.
But your post does betray your own unconscious bigotry. I doubt very much that you would call out somebody from Afro Caribbean descent, with members of their family who are also Afro Caribbean, for prioritising the Windrush scandal or Black Lives matter over antisemitism or Islamophobia. Yet you are entirely comfortable calling me out for your perception that I prioritise antisemitism, despite being aware of my own family background.
That says an awful lot about you Banksy. |
I think it says more about your imagination ..... now about Thatcher and 'the enemy within' has somebody been a little disingenuous ? | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 16:53 - Jul 29 with 2212 views | Darth_Koont |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:12 - Jul 29 by Herbivore |
I think it's a valid question. What you're attempting to do here is create a false equivalence between awful language being used by a fringe left wing publication that nobody reads and that I'd never heard of until this afternoon, and the same kind of awful rhetoric being used and normalised by mainstream politicians and used and repeated within mainstream media. Both are awful, but that's not the issue. One voice has power and is normalising this kind of discourse with the wider public, the other is whispering into a comparatively tiny echo chamber.
I am sure you'll come back with a rant about me excusing racism on the left blah, blah, blah and totally miss the point but your false equivalence needs calling out. And for what it's worth I wholeheartedly condemn the language and message from The Word, I didn't start a thread about it because they don't remotely seep through into mainstream discourse, thankfully so by the looks of them. |
And of course, the Guardian, BBC and whoever else use "enemy" as a term whether they're talking about Corbyn's enemies within Labour or Theresa May's enemies over Brexit.
GB's posts should come with a complimentary shoehorn and squinty monocle. [Post edited 29 Jul 2019 16:53]
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 16:57 - Jul 29 with 2202 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 14:40 - Jul 29 by jimmyvet |
DK your hypocrisy knows no bounds. You know exactly what that left rag is getting at so stop apologising again and again for racists. 99% on here call out real racism on the right and left only you call out the right but defend the left and it’s vile. |
Poor old DK is the living embodiment of the Mitchell and Webb sketch "are we the baddies".
He's left wing so believes he gets a free pass on racism. He can't see his own prejudice and the prejudice of those in this class struggle.
The reality is that he's a nasty and embittered old crank who supports, defends and repeats all manner of anti semitic tropes on here. Usually, after doing so, he then antisemiticaly explains why what he posted wasn't anti semitic and shouts "Israel" at the moon.
When decent, anti racist posters like Badger and Steve despair of him you know that the game is up for him. [Post edited 29 Jul 2019 16:58]
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 16:58 - Jul 29 with 2196 views | footers |
This ding dong still going on, is it? |  |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 17:06 - Jul 29 with 2178 views | Darth_Koont |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 16:57 - Jul 29 by GlasgowBlue |
Poor old DK is the living embodiment of the Mitchell and Webb sketch "are we the baddies".
He's left wing so believes he gets a free pass on racism. He can't see his own prejudice and the prejudice of those in this class struggle.
The reality is that he's a nasty and embittered old crank who supports, defends and repeats all manner of anti semitic tropes on here. Usually, after doing so, he then antisemiticaly explains why what he posted wasn't anti semitic and shouts "Israel" at the moon.
When decent, anti racist posters like Badger and Steve despair of him you know that the game is up for him. [Post edited 29 Jul 2019 16:58]
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I deal with the evidence GB. You, and more disappointingly Steve and BB, don't.
I'm absolutely fine with my conscience. How about you and yours, Mr. Disingenuous? Or have you gone too far to the party political dark side? | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 17:43 - Jul 29 with 2143 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 14:40 - Jul 29 by jimmyvet |
DK your hypocrisy knows no bounds. You know exactly what that left rag is getting at so stop apologising again and again for racists. 99% on here call out real racism on the right and left only you call out the right but defend the left and it’s vile. |
I refer you to Margaret Thatcher and her "enemy within" too which is obviously accurate as GB is trying to ignore it!
Now shouldn't you be looking after some animals? | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 08:14 - Jul 30 with 2066 views | 26_Paz |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 14:00 - Jul 29 by manchego |
This is for children so you should be able to follow it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z3bp82p/revision/1
You don't get Democracy on Monday and Facism on Tuesday.
Hitler joined the Nazi's in 1919 - 20 years before WWII
It happens because it's slow and you don't notice it happening. |
Probably a bit advanced for you that, well done mate. |  |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 08:17 - Jul 30 with 2063 views | kinnockers |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 08:14 - Jul 30 by 26_Paz |
Probably a bit advanced for you that, well done mate. |
Mafia bully's ganging up again i see..... |  |
| Former leader of the Labour Party / Newsround Editor |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 08:18 - Jul 30 with 2062 views | 26_Paz |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 14:00 - Jul 29 by manchego |
This is for children so you should be able to follow it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z3bp82p/revision/1
You don't get Democracy on Monday and Facism on Tuesday.
Hitler joined the Nazi's in 1919 - 20 years before WWII
It happens because it's slow and you don't notice it happening. |
I've made my points and am not going to engage with someone who begins with an insult.
I'll repeat, the Conservative party are not fascists, anybody suggesting that they are or that they will become fascist is either stupid or deliberately and desperately smearing.
Same applies to the Republicans in America. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 08:25 - Jul 30 with 2052 views | 26_Paz |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 08:17 - Jul 30 by kinnockers |
Mafia bully's ganging up again i see..... |
You know it mate. How long until they say we are the same person again? | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 08:52 - Jul 30 with 2029 views | Herbivore |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 08:18 - Jul 30 by 26_Paz |
I've made my points and am not going to engage with someone who begins with an insult.
I'll repeat, the Conservative party are not fascists, anybody suggesting that they are or that they will become fascist is either stupid or deliberately and desperately smearing.
Same applies to the Republicans in America. |
You've not really made any points nor really responded to the points made by others. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 09:04 - Jul 30 with 2020 views | 26_Paz |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 08:52 - Jul 30 by Herbivore |
You've not really made any points nor really responded to the points made by others. |
You might not agree with my point but you can't just say I haven't made one. That's just ridiculous. The point I've made is that in my view we are not on the road to fascism, I've provided my reasoning behind forming this view. You can disagree with that, of course you can, but you can't just deny that I've made that point. | |
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