| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 10:58 - Oct 17 with 1348 views | lowhouseblue |
| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 10:55 - Oct 17 by Guthrum |
The referendum can also be framed as "Let's get Brexit done" as much as "A second chance for Remain". |
can't see the tories swallowing it. as you say, it all depends on the numbers. the dup are tough negotiators, but if boris has come this far with out getting his maths right, he really is an idiot. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 11:10 - Oct 17 with 1328 views | Moriarty |
| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 10:19 - Oct 17 by m14_blue |
Except that's rather a simplistic way of looking at it.
NI diverges from the rest of the UK in many ways. socially, financially and politically. Nowhere else in the UK can people choose their nationality. They also don't seem to mind diverging on issues such as abortion or gay marriage.
If Brexit is to happen (which the DUP want remember) then it will require compromise and unusual solutions, similar to the Good Friday agreement.
I would sympathise with the DUP if this was being imposed upon them against their will but they support Brexit, either they compromise or we leave without a deal, which would be catastrophic for their country.
Obviously I don't want us to leave at all but, if we have to, then a fudge is the only way to limit the damage. |
You’ve hit some interesting points there, points that are sometimes overlooked.
One of the main reasons for Unionist opposition to a United Ireland has his been the culture of Catholocism in the South and the influence of the Vatican. That has changed drastically over the last couple of decades and the South has become much more liberal, socially and legally. The Vatican’s influence has diminished greatly for a few reasons. I’m not sure that the DUP have been willing to recognise that social and legal change. [Post edited 17 Oct 2019 11:11]
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| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 11:35 - Oct 17 with 1295 views | GlasgowBlue |
| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 07:51 - Oct 17 by Darth_Koont |
But can we be pushed towards a no deal now? There may be a legal challenge in a final sh!t or sh!tter attempt to play up to his voters, but Boris will have to seek an extension.
And I don't think NI in the customs union was a sensible compromise except technically. It would just open up other cans of worms in Northern Ireland and also Scotland. |
If the deal is defeated then what’s the point of an extension? The previous deal was defeated three times. What is the purpose of another extension? To give time for a third deal to be negotiated and rejected by Parliament? |  |
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| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 11:45 - Oct 17 with 1273 views | Swansea_Blue |
| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 11:35 - Oct 17 by GlasgowBlue |
If the deal is defeated then what’s the point of an extension? The previous deal was defeated three times. What is the purpose of another extension? To give time for a third deal to be negotiated and rejected by Parliament? |
Presumably for an election to see if that can provide some way to realign the House so that future bills can actually pass. I can't imagine a government has ever been in such a weak position as this one for a long time, if ever. |  |
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| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 11:45 - Oct 17 with 1269 views | Darth_Koont |
| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 11:35 - Oct 17 by GlasgowBlue |
If the deal is defeated then what’s the point of an extension? The previous deal was defeated three times. What is the purpose of another extension? To give time for a third deal to be negotiated and rejected by Parliament? |
To avoid a no deal and give the UK time to sort out what it actually wants. That will require the process being largely taken away from a government that has wasted 3 and a half years in posturing towards its own party and nationalist loons.
Going by the indicative votes and the current countrywide polling that will probably be a deal that keeps us in the customs union AND then putting that to a referendum against remaining.
Ironically, that was pretty much what May had a mandate for in June 2016 but she played politics and got us trapped in her redlines instead. [Post edited 17 Oct 2019 12:07]
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| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 12:03 - Oct 17 with 1234 views | WeWereZombies |
| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 11:45 - Oct 17 by Darth_Koont |
To avoid a no deal and give the UK time to sort out what it actually wants. That will require the process being largely taken away from a government that has wasted 3 and a half years in posturing towards its own party and nationalist loons.
Going by the indicative votes and the current countrywide polling that will probably be a deal that keeps us in the customs union AND then putting that to a referendum against remaining.
Ironically, that was pretty much what May had a mandate for in June 2016 but she played politics and got us trapped in her redlines instead. [Post edited 17 Oct 2019 12:07]
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'May had a mandate for in May 2016'?
David Cameron was her puppet back then? Actually, thinking about it, maybe that wasn't a typo... |  |
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| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 12:06 - Oct 17 with 1225 views | Darth_Koont |
| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 12:03 - Oct 17 by WeWereZombies |
'May had a mandate for in May 2016'?
David Cameron was her puppet back then? Actually, thinking about it, maybe that wasn't a typo... |
Sorry. Now corrected.
I had May on my mind ... oh god, and a little bit of sick in my mouth. | |
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| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 12:07 - Oct 17 with 1219 views | Swansea_Blue |
| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 12:06 - Oct 17 by Darth_Koont |
Sorry. Now corrected.
I had May on my mind ... oh god, and a little bit of sick in my mouth. |
Just imagine romping with her through that wheat field. Ah, TWTD  | |
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| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 12:10 - Oct 17 with 1204 views | Darth_Koont |
| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 12:07 - Oct 17 by Swansea_Blue |
Just imagine romping with her through that wheat field. Ah, TWTD |
You're a sick puppy. | |
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| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 12:40 - Oct 17 with 1174 views | sparks |
| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 10:19 - Oct 17 by m14_blue |
Except that's rather a simplistic way of looking at it.
NI diverges from the rest of the UK in many ways. socially, financially and politically. Nowhere else in the UK can people choose their nationality. They also don't seem to mind diverging on issues such as abortion or gay marriage.
If Brexit is to happen (which the DUP want remember) then it will require compromise and unusual solutions, similar to the Good Friday agreement.
I would sympathise with the DUP if this was being imposed upon them against their will but they support Brexit, either they compromise or we leave without a deal, which would be catastrophic for their country.
Obviously I don't want us to leave at all but, if we have to, then a fudge is the only way to limit the damage. |
Of course there are differences but the essence of it IS simple.
If it is reasonable for one side to object to a border between two separate nations then how can it be unreasonable for the other side to have the same (mirrored) objection to a border within their nation? |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 12:48 - Oct 17 with 1165 views | Herbivore |
| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 12:40 - Oct 17 by sparks |
Of course there are differences but the essence of it IS simple.
If it is reasonable for one side to object to a border between two separate nations then how can it be unreasonable for the other side to have the same (mirrored) objection to a border within their nation? |
Because one side want Brexit and the other don't, so the side that want it need to be prepared to compromise to get what they want. Neither the Republic nor Northern Ireland as a whole are in favour of leaving the EU at all, so the DUP - who want to leave - are taking the piss if they think a border on the island of Ireland is a better way forward with all the issues it will bring. |  |
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| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 13:34 - Oct 17 with 1130 views | GlasgowBlue |
| DUP say no to Brexit deal on 12:48 - Oct 17 by Herbivore |
Because one side want Brexit and the other don't, so the side that want it need to be prepared to compromise to get what they want. Neither the Republic nor Northern Ireland as a whole are in favour of leaving the EU at all, so the DUP - who want to leave - are taking the piss if they think a border on the island of Ireland is a better way forward with all the issues it will bring. |
Indeed | |
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