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Dolly Ponders 13:40 - Oct 17 with 2636 viewsBrixtonBlue

I've been pondering again.

Religious folk believe that God created the universe. Fine. Those of you who are atheists, therefore, must surely believe the possibility that there are (or have been) lots of universes?

My thinking is this - we know a universe can come into being from, essentially, nothing. Because we're in one. And within that universe there is never just one of something. There are at least 2,500 species of moth in the UK alone, for example.

So it seems unlikely that only one universe would have developed. If it can happen as easily as it seems to have - and with no outside influence as you atheists believe - then it should have happened countless times? And presumably evolution would have happened in a similar way in all of these times?

I know the multi-verse theory isn't particularly new, but would you agree that if you don't believe God created one universe then it's highly like there are many, many universes (we just can't see/get to them because we're in this one)? When compared to all other events that are able to happen due to the laws of nature/physics etc. it's surely very very unlikely a universe would only come about just one time ever?

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Dolly Ponders on 13:43 - Oct 17 with 954 viewsfactual_blue

It's easier to believe the Giant's Causeway is 6,000 years old.

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Dolly Ponders on 13:44 - Oct 17 with 952 viewssparks

The only valid answer is 'we dont know'.

The premises in para 3 are not remotely sound. The rest does not therefore follow. Even if the logic was viable. Which I question...

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Dolly Ponders on 13:47 - Oct 17 with 937 viewsjeera

I'm not sure most religious folk I've known have shown any particular interest in the Universe really.

Most speak of the Earth being created by God but get a bit vague about the rest of the place.

Well it looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck. Nope, dunno what it is.
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Dolly Ponders on 13:49 - Oct 17 with 925 viewsGuthrum

Altho that multiplicity of species, etc., existing within this universe and its framework of laws doesn't mean it will necessarily do so elsewhere (insofar as the concept of "elsewhere" exists at all).

It's equally possible that this is the only universe and there is nothing else.

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Dolly Ponders on 13:52 - Oct 17 with 912 viewsOldsmoker

Douglas Adams said this.

“There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”

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Dolly Ponders on 13:53 - Oct 17 with 900 viewsDarth_Koont

But the universe means everything and one everything is perfectly logical.

Doesn't discount multiple universes but there's nothing in logic terms to suggest there should be.
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Dolly Ponders on 13:59 - Oct 17 with 879 viewsBrixtonBlue

Dolly Ponders on 13:44 - Oct 17 by sparks

The only valid answer is 'we dont know'.

The premises in para 3 are not remotely sound. The rest does not therefore follow. Even if the logic was viable. Which I question...


Do elaborate on what you think isn't sound and why.

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Er... on 14:01 - Oct 17 with 876 viewsDyland

"And within that universe there is never just one of something. There are at least 2,500 species of moth in the UK alone, for example."

Er, what?

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Dolly Ponders on 14:02 - Oct 17 with 866 viewsfooters

Have you been on the jazz woodbines recently, buh?

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Er... on 14:03 - Oct 17 with 863 viewsjeera

Er... on 14:01 - Oct 17 by Dyland

"And within that universe there is never just one of something. There are at least 2,500 species of moth in the UK alone, for example."

Er, what?


There are lots of moths so it stands to reason there are probably several universes.

I dunno Dyland. You can't have everything explained to you mate.

One day you're going to have to think for yourself.

Well it looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck. Nope, dunno what it is.
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Dolly Ponders on 14:03 - Oct 17 with 862 viewsBrixtonBlue

Dolly Ponders on 13:49 - Oct 17 by Guthrum

Altho that multiplicity of species, etc., existing within this universe and its framework of laws doesn't mean it will necessarily do so elsewhere (insofar as the concept of "elsewhere" exists at all).

It's equally possible that this is the only universe and there is nothing else.


The fact that it's happened (and happened/developed so easily) it would surely seem unlikely to be a one off. If spontaneous universe creation is allowed then why would it only happen one time?

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Dolly Ponders on 14:06 - Oct 17 with 852 viewsOldsmoker

The problem I have with the universe is that it is big.
Big, Vast, Ginormous, Colossal are words that don't even come close to describe it.
There are billions of Galaxies and within those galaxies are billions of stars each kicking out vast amounts of energy.
I can't do the math but that is a lot of energy and all of that energy, because of the law of physics, has to have been there at the start because energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed.

That's a lot of stuff to come from nothing.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:07 - Oct 17 with 846 viewsbaxterbasics

It's baffling isn't it, how anything can possibly exist?

Whether you are taking a religious or pure science view of it, the idea of a 'beginning' and the limits of space-time are beyond comprehension.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:07 - Oct 17 with 844 viewsBackToRussia

Dunno. Have you worked out how to tie a towel around your waist yet?

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Dolly Ponders on 14:07 - Oct 17 with 842 viewsBrixtonBlue

Dolly Ponders on 13:53 - Oct 17 by Darth_Koont

But the universe means everything and one everything is perfectly logical.

Doesn't discount multiple universes but there's nothing in logic terms to suggest there should be.


I just think if it can happen, then over billions upon billions of years there'd surely be another one. Even just a small one! Seems odd to me that something so fundamental would be a one off event.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:09 - Oct 17 with 834 viewsDyland

Dolly Ponders on 14:02 - Oct 17 by footers

Have you been on the jazz woodbines recently, buh?


Meth maybe. And I mean the spirits not the crystals.

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Er... on 14:09 - Oct 17 with 835 viewsBrixtonBlue

Er... on 14:01 - Oct 17 by Dyland

"And within that universe there is never just one of something. There are at least 2,500 species of moth in the UK alone, for example."

Er, what?


It's written in English Dyllers. I'm not sure what else I can do for you.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:11 - Oct 17 with 825 viewsOldsmoker

Dolly Ponders on 14:07 - Oct 17 by BrixtonBlue

I just think if it can happen, then over billions upon billions of years there'd surely be another one. Even just a small one! Seems odd to me that something so fundamental would be a one off event.


There is a possibility that when God created the universe he thought "oh sh*t, I won't make that mistake again".

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Er... on 14:12 - Oct 17 with 824 viewsBrixtonBlue

Er... on 14:03 - Oct 17 by jeera

There are lots of moths so it stands to reason there are probably several universes.

I dunno Dyland. You can't have everything explained to you mate.

One day you're going to have to think for yourself.


Or more to the point - there are lots of everything (as allowed by nature/the laws of physics etc). So why just one universe? If multiple things can come about - and the universe is a thing that obeys the same laws...

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Dolly Ponders on 14:12 - Oct 17 with 821 viewsDarth_Koont

Dolly Ponders on 14:07 - Oct 17 by BrixtonBlue

I just think if it can happen, then over billions upon billions of years there'd surely be another one. Even just a small one! Seems odd to me that something so fundamental would be a one off event.


Probably because it is so fundamental.

Maybe it's a universe that expands and contracts back to nothing. From a Big Bang to a Big Crunch. Then starts again from that state. So multiple universes in series not in parallel.
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Dolly Ponders on 14:12 - Oct 17 with 823 viewssparks

Dolly Ponders on 13:59 - Oct 17 by BrixtonBlue

Do elaborate on what you think isn't sound and why.


We dont know if the universe was created or developed from nothing. We dont know if it was easy. We dont know if there is never just one of something. We have no reason to equate the universe with moths or anything else.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:13 - Oct 17 with 818 viewsSpruceMoose

Dolly Ponders on 14:07 - Oct 17 by BrixtonBlue

I just think if it can happen, then over billions upon billions of years there'd surely be another one. Even just a small one! Seems odd to me that something so fundamental would be a one off event.


At the bottom of all of these type of questions is a kind of hubris. Our egos are hesitant to accept our own unimportance.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:13 - Oct 17 with 813 viewsGuthrum

Dolly Ponders on 14:03 - Oct 17 by BrixtonBlue

The fact that it's happened (and happened/developed so easily) it would surely seem unlikely to be a one off. If spontaneous universe creation is allowed then why would it only happen one time?


You say 'is allowed to happen', but we don't know the circumstances under which it did. There may never have been more than one universe.

Also, it wasn't created from nothing, it expanded from a point singularity. A more pertinent question is how that singularity came to be, which might tell us whether others might have existed.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:15 - Oct 17 with 804 viewsGuthrum

Dolly Ponders on 14:07 - Oct 17 by BrixtonBlue

I just think if it can happen, then over billions upon billions of years there'd surely be another one. Even just a small one! Seems odd to me that something so fundamental would be a one off event.


Outside of our universe, there is no such thing as 'billions and billions of years'.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:17 - Oct 17 with 795 viewsOldsmoker

Dolly Ponders on 14:13 - Oct 17 by Guthrum

You say 'is allowed to happen', but we don't know the circumstances under which it did. There may never have been more than one universe.

Also, it wasn't created from nothing, it expanded from a point singularity. A more pertinent question is how that singularity came to be, which might tell us whether others might have existed.


Are you suggesting that there were multiple singularities?
Let me get my brain around that....


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