| Controversial post alert 22:16 - Oct 23 with 15598 views | artsbossbeard |
So, apart from having a much bigger squad, support from the owner and playing in a pub league, is there much difference in style from the mick days? Genuine question.
Let's hope lambo doesn't say a rudey.
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| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Controversial post alert on 10:40 - Oct 25 with 3535 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Controversial post alert on 09:12 - Oct 25 by Keaneish |
I'm not arguing that, i' arguing that typically Mick doesn't play possession based football as a philosophy. Mick likes t get the ball in the final third and defend from there. So, i think it unlikely, no matter what level he manages at, his philosophy and his approach will remain the same.
He tried to change it a few times with us but ultimately retreated to what he knows best. fair enough. Many felt it dated though. |
I don’t disagree re his general style, but the point you were disputing was that we would have likely dominated possession vs Accrington
It doesn’t appear to be an unreasonable point, as despite McCarthy’s style it was something we achieved on occasion against better sides, and possession would tend to increase if playing against lesser sides as the statistics you posted re ROI indicate. Indeed, even in that much-maligned 2016 Rotherham home game under McCarthy we had 61% possession
It really isn’t an unreasonable suggestion. I think your desperation to make out everything has been much more wonderful since that bad man Mick has gone has rather clouded your judgement, as usual |  |
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| Controversial post alert on 11:20 - Oct 25 with 3507 views | Keaneish |
| Controversial post alert on 10:40 - Oct 25 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I don’t disagree re his general style, but the point you were disputing was that we would have likely dominated possession vs Accrington
It doesn’t appear to be an unreasonable point, as despite McCarthy’s style it was something we achieved on occasion against better sides, and possession would tend to increase if playing against lesser sides as the statistics you posted re ROI indicate. Indeed, even in that much-maligned 2016 Rotherham home game under McCarthy we had 61% possession
It really isn’t an unreasonable suggestion. I think your desperation to make out everything has been much more wonderful since that bad man Mick has gone has rather clouded your judgement, as usual |
I'm simply stating that statistically Mick doesn't play possession based football which you've agreed to. On occasion we did achieve +60% but in the majority we never, so its not unreasonable to suggest it may have been unlikely - nothing to do with clouded judgement.
If we want to look at an MM Town side against lesser sides, which is probably the best yard stick, all be it with slightly weakened starting 11s on occasion, lets look at the more recent cup games as examples:
2017/18 - Lincoln - 56%
2017/18 - Lincoln replay - 47%
2016/17 - Portsmouth 32%
2016/17 - Portsmouth replay 44%
I've never suggested it is an "unreasonable point". I'm simply saying that probability would suggest otherwise. |  |
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| Controversial post alert on 11:32 - Oct 25 with 3491 views | PJH |
| Controversial post alert on 10:23 - Oct 25 by BrixtonBlue |
We went down because of Hurst. No blame should lie at the door of whoever was to come in and deal with the sh!t show that was left.
It's also going to take a while to turn things around, so people bemoaning Lambert after 2 defeats are pathetic IMO. |
We were not relegated in October though and it was certainly far from impossible that we could have stayed in The Championship.
It is very unlikely that Bolton will avoid relegation this season put they did start with minus 12 so in October this year they do look like being relegated but our situation twelve months ago was far from being that desperate.
We were a poor squad because of Hurst's dealings but at that stage we were not a relegated one.
If Paul Lambert had actually said to Marcus Evans that he did not think he could keep us up then ME should not have employed him. |  | | |
| Controversial post alert on 11:37 - Oct 25 with 3485 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Controversial post alert on 11:20 - Oct 25 by Keaneish |
I'm simply stating that statistically Mick doesn't play possession based football which you've agreed to. On occasion we did achieve +60% but in the majority we never, so its not unreasonable to suggest it may have been unlikely - nothing to do with clouded judgement.
If we want to look at an MM Town side against lesser sides, which is probably the best yard stick, all be it with slightly weakened starting 11s on occasion, lets look at the more recent cup games as examples:
2017/18 - Lincoln - 56%
2017/18 - Lincoln replay - 47%
2016/17 - Portsmouth 32%
2016/17 - Portsmouth replay 44%
I've never suggested it is an "unreasonable point". I'm simply saying that probability would suggest otherwise. |
‘Slightly weakened’ - we changed half the side in 3 of those, and the entire 11 for the Portsmouth replay, so no it’s not really a good yard stick | |
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| Controversial post alert on 11:39 - Oct 25 with 3474 views | Keaneish |
| Controversial post alert on 11:37 - Oct 25 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
‘Slightly weakened’ - we changed half the side in 3 of those, and the entire 11 for the Portsmouth replay, so no it’s not really a good yard stick |
It's the best and closest we've got to the discussion topic though. Think we've exhausted this one. Next... | |
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| Controversial post alert on 11:45 - Oct 25 with 3464 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Controversial post alert on 11:39 - Oct 25 by Keaneish |
It's the best and closest we've got to the discussion topic though. Think we've exhausted this one. Next... |
Or you could look at performances against the bottom side in the league when playing a settled side, which typically saw higher possession(57% v Sunderland in 2017/18, 66% v Rotherham in 2016/17)... | |
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| Controversial post alert on 13:44 - Oct 25 with 3424 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Controversial post alert on 10:24 - Oct 25 by haynes_toe1 |
Well it's the best evidence we have to go on. Lamberts football for us, in that league...we were dog awful couldnt score and couldnt defend. There were poor teams, with just as poor squads as ours who out performed us last season. Rotherham included. |
There are so many other factors to take into consideration. You can't just extrapolate his results over the whole season and blame him. He probably wouldn't have tried to move too many lower league players into the squad in the first place.
The blame lies with Hurst. Once again too many TWTDers have short memories. I've used the analogy before, but it's like blaming the fireman for the fire. |  |
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| Controversial post alert on 13:48 - Oct 25 with 3422 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Controversial post alert on 10:30 - Oct 25 by artsbossbeard |
Did you got to the game? |
Which game? | |
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| Controversial post alert on 13:55 - Oct 25 with 3406 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Controversial post alert on 08:27 - Oct 25 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Lambert has a lower budget this season, but it is a far bigger budget in relative terms than we ever had under McCarthy, or indeed any manager since Keane in all probability
Ps. Hope you’re looking forward to getting panned for your joke in a certain other thread!! [Post edited 25 Oct 2019 8:28]
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A valid point but, in my opinion, your style of your football shouldn't change depending on what league you're in.
I'm not sure it's fair to compare Lambert & McCarthy just yet, hopefully in the next 2/3 years Lambert establishes us again in the Championship & then we can draw comparisons.
P.s. not been panned yet because Phil & Gav have a sense of humor too & are probably still p1ssing themselves. [Post edited 25 Oct 2019 13:58]
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| Controversial post alert on 13:55 - Oct 25 with 3402 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Controversial post alert on 11:32 - Oct 25 by PJH |
We were not relegated in October though and it was certainly far from impossible that we could have stayed in The Championship.
It is very unlikely that Bolton will avoid relegation this season put they did start with minus 12 so in October this year they do look like being relegated but our situation twelve months ago was far from being that desperate.
We were a poor squad because of Hurst's dealings but at that stage we were not a relegated one.
If Paul Lambert had actually said to Marcus Evans that he did not think he could keep us up then ME should not have employed him. |
What a nonsensical argument. I seem to remember having this one with someone before, was it you?
Firstly, I haven't said anywhere that it was impossible to keep us up. Everyone must surely agree it would've been difficult though, whoever took over?
Secondly, where's the suggestion that Lambert didn't think he could keep us up?
My point is simply that Hurst fecked us over and we need to give WHOEVER happened to take over from him plenty of time to turn the club around. Which doesn't mean panicking after two league defeats. | |
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| Controversial post alert on 13:57 - Oct 25 with 3399 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Controversial post alert on 11:45 - Oct 25 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Or you could look at performances against the bottom side in the league when playing a settled side, which typically saw higher possession(57% v Sunderland in 2017/18, 66% v Rotherham in 2016/17)... |
What difference does possession make anyway? Hurst's only win v Swansea we had about 23% possession or something equally ridiculous. | |
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| Controversial post alert on 14:04 - Oct 25 with 3379 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Controversial post alert on 00:38 - Oct 25 by BrixtonBlue |
Are you (and your up-arrowers) suggesting Lambert doesn't know what he's doing?!?
Blimey, 2 defeats and suddenly those still pining for Mick are out in force. |
I can't help but feel that some people have been desperately waiting for us to lose a couple of games so they could start giving a kicking to Lambert. |  |
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| Controversial post alert on 14:10 - Oct 25 with 3375 views | artsbossbeard |
| Controversial post alert on 13:55 - Oct 25 by BrixtonBlue |
What a nonsensical argument. I seem to remember having this one with someone before, was it you?
Firstly, I haven't said anywhere that it was impossible to keep us up. Everyone must surely agree it would've been difficult though, whoever took over?
Secondly, where's the suggestion that Lambert didn't think he could keep us up?
My point is simply that Hurst fecked us over and we need to give WHOEVER happened to take over from him plenty of time to turn the club around. Which doesn't mean panicking after two league defeats. |
I don't think people are panicking, just kinda PO'ed that the performances boiled down to a long ball experience with added lack of urgency when supposedly chasing the game.
For me, it drew comparisons to the worst nights under the lights with MM at the helm. | |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Controversial post alert on 14:30 - Oct 25 with 3348 views | Herbivore |
| Controversial post alert on 13:44 - Oct 25 by BrixtonBlue |
There are so many other factors to take into consideration. You can't just extrapolate his results over the whole season and blame him. He probably wouldn't have tried to move too many lower league players into the squad in the first place.
The blame lies with Hurst. Once again too many TWTDers have short memories. I've used the analogy before, but it's like blaming the fireman for the fire. |
It's more like saying the fireman could have done a better job at putting out the fire that someone else started. |  |
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| Controversial post alert on 14:35 - Oct 25 with 3347 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Controversial post alert on 13:55 - Oct 25 by Reuser_is_God |
A valid point but, in my opinion, your style of your football shouldn't change depending on what league you're in.
I'm not sure it's fair to compare Lambert & McCarthy just yet, hopefully in the next 2/3 years Lambert establishes us again in the Championship & then we can draw comparisons.
P.s. not been panned yet because Phil & Gav have a sense of humor too & are probably still p1ssing themselves. [Post edited 25 Oct 2019 13:58]
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I think it’s pretty obvious that style is likely to suffer if you’re operating on a smaller budget to your competitors, and more forgivable, compared to when you are a comparative big fish
Agree that comparing is futile - although actually think it tends to be the anti-Mick crowd that are more keen to do so with the whole ‘look how much better it is now’ type comments, as we sit in the third division
I know, was just expecting a pile on from the usual suspects!! | |
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| Controversial post alert on 14:36 - Oct 25 with 3342 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Controversial post alert on 13:57 - Oct 25 by BrixtonBlue |
What difference does possession make anyway? Hurst's only win v Swansea we had about 23% possession or something equally ridiculous. |
I tend to agree, but the post responded to was specifically about possession
Think itfcjoe has it spot on that possession can actually be somewhat misleading, as the scoreline will often dictate that a losing team has more possession with the other team sitting back | |
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| Controversial post alert on 14:36 - Oct 25 with 3340 views | PJH |
| Controversial post alert on 13:55 - Oct 25 by BrixtonBlue |
What a nonsensical argument. I seem to remember having this one with someone before, was it you?
Firstly, I haven't said anywhere that it was impossible to keep us up. Everyone must surely agree it would've been difficult though, whoever took over?
Secondly, where's the suggestion that Lambert didn't think he could keep us up?
My point is simply that Hurst fecked us over and we need to give WHOEVER happened to take over from him plenty of time to turn the club around. Which doesn't mean panicking after two league defeats. |
I don't think anything I type is nonsensical, except when I intend it to be.
You could well have had this same discussion with me before because my opinions regarding football very rarely if ever change.
We were in a bad position with a not very good team and that is 100% down to Hurst but we were certainly not beyond saving and PL acting differently or someone else might well have saved us.
If Lambert thought he could keep us up he seems to have gone the wrong way about doing it by putting emphasis on performance and not doing the obvious thing of acquiring points somehow.
My point was that I assume he came in here believing he could/would keep us up otherwise he should not have been here.
PL is getting time to turn things around and he is turning things around, it is just that I would rather that he was turning them around whilst still in the Championship.
I am not panicking after two league defeats but I probably will be panicking if we have not either sealed promotion or be on the point of sealing it in six months time or a bit less. | | | |
| Controversial post alert on 14:39 - Oct 25 with 3337 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Controversial post alert on 14:04 - Oct 25 by GlasgowBlue |
I can't help but feel that some people have been desperately waiting for us to lose a couple of games so they could start giving a kicking to Lambert. |
I think the way we lost on Wednesday is a factor, and most of the posters starting threads don’t tend to be the anti-Lambert ones for me (except Fishers obviously but we can safely assume he’s trolling 🙂)
Reality is it currently a wobble to an otherwise very good start to the season, which can easily be rectified with a win against the second-bottom side on Saturday | |
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| Controversial post alert on 15:02 - Oct 25 with 3294 views | Herbivore |
| Controversial post alert on 09:20 - Oct 25 by Keaneish |
Mick never produced football this good either. Let's not gloss over the 26 pass move at Gillingham. Many of us wanted better football. It's pretty hard to argue with that goal as anecdotal as it might be and say we haven't made improvements in areas footballing wise no matter the debacle of the last week.
True we need to sustain that but a goal like that would never have happened under Mick. He'd have been screaming at someone to get the defence turned or to play it into the front man lng before Dozzell's pass. |
Did I imagine that excellent football for Tabb's goal against Middlesborough in the play off season? Or the sweeping counter attack goal in our 4-2 win over Forest in his final season? Your memory of Mick's time here is very selective. At our best under Mick we were a far better footballing side than we've been under Lambert. | |
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| Controversial post alert on 15:07 - Oct 25 with 3287 views | longtimefan |
| Controversial post alert on 15:02 - Oct 25 by Herbivore |
Did I imagine that excellent football for Tabb's goal against Middlesborough in the play off season? Or the sweeping counter attack goal in our 4-2 win over Forest in his final season? Your memory of Mick's time here is very selective. At our best under Mick we were a far better footballing side than we've been under Lambert. |
Or even Knudsen's goal at Carrow Road. Though the anti-Mick collective would have double the reason to forget that one  |  | | |
| Controversial post alert on 15:41 - Oct 25 with 3253 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Controversial post alert on 14:04 - Oct 25 by GlasgowBlue |
I can't help but feel that some people have been desperately waiting for us to lose a couple of games so they could start giving a kicking to Lambert. |
Yep. And seems to be the way with every manager. People are just so impatient. They seem to want the mess that is ITFC fixed overnight. | |
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| Controversial post alert on 15:43 - Oct 25 with 3249 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Controversial post alert on 14:10 - Oct 25 by artsbossbeard |
I don't think people are panicking, just kinda PO'ed that the performances boiled down to a long ball experience with added lack of urgency when supposedly chasing the game.
For me, it drew comparisons to the worst nights under the lights with MM at the helm. |
Some are properly panicking from what I'm reading... and citing the whole season (and last), not just the last two games. | |
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| Controversial post alert on 15:44 - Oct 25 with 3246 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Controversial post alert on 14:30 - Oct 25 by Herbivore |
It's more like saying the fireman could have done a better job at putting out the fire that someone else started. |
Unfortunately the firman just had one bucket... with a hole in it. | |
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| Controversial post alert on 15:47 - Oct 25 with 3241 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Controversial post alert on 14:36 - Oct 25 by PJH |
I don't think anything I type is nonsensical, except when I intend it to be.
You could well have had this same discussion with me before because my opinions regarding football very rarely if ever change.
We were in a bad position with a not very good team and that is 100% down to Hurst but we were certainly not beyond saving and PL acting differently or someone else might well have saved us.
If Lambert thought he could keep us up he seems to have gone the wrong way about doing it by putting emphasis on performance and not doing the obvious thing of acquiring points somehow.
My point was that I assume he came in here believing he could/would keep us up otherwise he should not have been here.
PL is getting time to turn things around and he is turning things around, it is just that I would rather that he was turning them around whilst still in the Championship.
I am not panicking after two league defeats but I probably will be panicking if we have not either sealed promotion or be on the point of sealing it in six months time or a bit less. |
Well maybe wait until then, then. | |
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| Controversial post alert on 15:50 - Oct 25 with 3233 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Controversial post alert on 15:02 - Oct 25 by Herbivore |
Did I imagine that excellent football for Tabb's goal against Middlesborough in the play off season? Or the sweeping counter attack goal in our 4-2 win over Forest in his final season? Your memory of Mick's time here is very selective. At our best under Mick we were a far better footballing side than we've been under Lambert. |
I'd have to disagree with you there. That goal with all the passes outstrips anything Mick's teams produced. | |
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