| Don't vote tactically 08:09 - Nov 7 with 3377 views | chicoazul |
Voting tactically is a very bad thing and will almost certainly leave you feeling dirty and used, and not in a good way.
If you google tactical voting your first result will almost certainly be a site called GetVoting.org which is a LibDem trojan horse site, recommending you vote LD in 170 constituencies and Labour in 1.
If you feel there is no party representing you then don't vote for any of them. You don't *have* to vote and if enough people don't we may find politics changes for the better. |  |
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| Don't vote tactically on 08:15 - Nov 7 with 2347 views | giant_stow |
Do vote tactically - it's a chance to make your vote really count and for you to make the change you want. Don't be stuck in a tribe and don't wait for change - force it. |  |
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| Don't vote tactically on 08:17 - Nov 7 with 2342 views | Steve_M |
Don't be daft. People have voted tactically for years because FPTP demands it, assuming people are lucky enough to live in a constituency where the seat might actually change hands.
When both main parties are as sh1t, institutionally racist and lead by such utter mediocrities the best thing the electorate of this country can do is to make this another hung parliament.
Also, do you really think that electoral reform might be on the agenda as each of Labour and Tory becomes ever more dominated by the looniest parts of the membership? We're heading for US-style ideological purity in each party over any sense of what is good for the country. |  |
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| Don't vote tactically on 08:24 - Nov 7 with 2320 views | Guthrum |
The "if enough people abstain things will change" argument does not entirely hold water. After all, turnouts in Euopean and local elections are not much more than half of those in GEs, but the results are still considered valid - especially by those minor parties who disproportionally benefit.
It would likely have to go below 20% before anything was really done.
Far better for people to get together and found new parties/alliances/groupings with policies they actually support. Too late for this GE, tho.
And I agree that it is always best to do your own research, not relying on dubious websites of unknown provenance. |  |
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| Don't vote tactically on 08:28 - Nov 7 with 2306 views | m14_blue |
Not disagreeing with your overall premise but I’ve just been on that site and looked at the 3 constituencies my immediate family are in, all 3 are recommending voting Labour. |  | | |
| Don't vote tactically on 08:30 - Nov 7 with 2292 views | chicoazul |
| Don't vote tactically on 08:28 - Nov 7 by m14_blue |
Not disagreeing with your overall premise but I’ve just been on that site and looked at the 3 constituencies my immediate family are in, all 3 are recommending voting Labour. |
Really? Interesting. Which ones please? | |
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| Don't vote tactically on 08:31 - Nov 7 with 2289 views | chicoazul |
| Don't vote tactically on 08:17 - Nov 7 by Steve_M |
Don't be daft. People have voted tactically for years because FPTP demands it, assuming people are lucky enough to live in a constituency where the seat might actually change hands.
When both main parties are as sh1t, institutionally racist and lead by such utter mediocrities the best thing the electorate of this country can do is to make this another hung parliament.
Also, do you really think that electoral reform might be on the agenda as each of Labour and Tory becomes ever more dominated by the looniest parts of the membership? We're heading for US-style ideological purity in each party over any sense of what is good for the country. |
We already have that. | |
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| Don't vote tactically on 08:31 - Nov 7 with 2287 views | m14_blue |
| Don't vote tactically on 08:30 - Nov 7 by chicoazul |
Really? Interesting. Which ones please? |
PM you | | | |
| Don't vote tactically on 08:32 - Nov 7 with 2284 views | chicoazul |
| Don't vote tactically on 08:31 - Nov 7 by m14_blue |
PM you |
TYB. | |
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| Don't vote tactically on 08:35 - Nov 7 with 2275 views | uefacup81 |
It all depends on your objective.
GetVoting.org is very clearly set up to point you in the direction of the best vote to get a pro-remain MP, hence why there's so many recommendations to vote for the Lib Dem candidate.
A lot of the broader anti-Tory sites seem to be a lot more balanced. |  |
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| Don't vote tactically on 08:39 - Nov 7 with 2262 views | DanTheMan |
I'm I actually in the one? It's recommend I vote for Soubry.
However I will be tactically voting, because our voting systems is pants and leaves me with no other choice. |  |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:08 - Nov 7 with 2198 views | StokieBlue |
Spruce said I should take a look at the modelling in that site - it's rather dubious with unknown fudge factor which skews the results in an opaque way.
Here is my post:
Let's get it out there on the record then... by StokieBlue 31 Oct 2019 11:28I think the issue people are getting with the website is not due to the MRP modelling but due to an entirely subject assumption they have included in the modelling without any real explanation:
We are a cross party campaign with a mission to stop Brexit by any democratic means. We consider each candidate and their position on Brexit in our recommendations - this means we considered supporting Green, Plaid Cymru, Lib-Dem, Labour, and Independent candidates based on their willingness to do the right thing as well as their chance of beating the Brexiter candidates. We’ve taken these decisions on a case-by-case basis in every seat. That said, you can be sure we will not recommend The Brexit Party or The Conservative Party in any constituency under any circumstances!
That is hugely subjective and can throw everything off. For instance, if you apply a weighting factor based on the MPs likelihood of "doing the right thing" it could hugely skew the score. Without them expanding on that criteria and how it is integrated into the model I would say the website is pretty useless.
I would actually go further and say it could easily be abused. If people aren't willing to look into the assumptions made then this entirely subjective factor could allow them to bias and skew the results as they see fit but in an opaque way.
On MRP itself, it looks like a good way to go about things. Basically work out how certain demographics of people tend to vote (obviously this has to be somewhat probabilistic) and then combine the normal polling results with the demographics of an area taken from census data to project how people in specific constituencies are likely to vote.
SB
SB [Post edited 7 Nov 2019 9:09]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:14 - Nov 7 with 2173 views | Herbivore |
I'm voting tactically. I'll be voting Labour as they were only 500 votes shy of the Tories in 2017 with everyone else miles adrift. I want the Tory incumbent out and so voting Labour is the option for me. If we had PR I'd vote Green and I do vote Green in other elections, but in this one it has to be Labour in order to try and get the Tories out. |  |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:18 - Nov 7 with 2157 views | uefacup81 |
| Don't vote tactically on 09:14 - Nov 7 by Herbivore |
I'm voting tactically. I'll be voting Labour as they were only 500 votes shy of the Tories in 2017 with everyone else miles adrift. I want the Tory incumbent out and so voting Labour is the option for me. If we had PR I'd vote Green and I do vote Green in other elections, but in this one it has to be Labour in order to try and get the Tories out. |
Norwich North, amiright? | |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:22 - Nov 7 with 2139 views | Dyland |
"You don't *have* to vote and if enough people don't we may find politics changes for the better."
You silly sausage you. |  |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:23 - Nov 7 with 2126 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Pretty much agree, if no party represents your views don't vote and then when turnout is less than 50% (although a none of the above option would be better) demand PR to enable new voices to be heard or current ones to be louder. |  |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:23 - Nov 7 with 2122 views | Herbivore |
| Don't vote tactically on 09:18 - Nov 7 by uefacup81 |
Norwich North, amiright? |
You are right! | |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:24 - Nov 7 with 2117 views | BigManBlue |
Maybe the lesson is just, don't trust tactical voting sites? It's easy enough to find out how close the other parties were to the incumbent at the last election - if you don't like who that is then just pick the first acceptable challenger as you go down the list. |  |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:26 - Nov 7 with 2104 views | uefacup81 |
| Don't vote tactically on 09:23 - Nov 7 by Herbivore |
You are right! |
Norwich South here. I'll be travelling 'up north' to campaign for the Labour candidate there. The sooner incompetent corrupt Chloe is handed her P45 the better! | |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:28 - Nov 7 with 2093 views | Herbivore |
| Don't vote tactically on 09:26 - Nov 7 by uefacup81 |
Norwich South here. I'll be travelling 'up north' to campaign for the Labour candidate there. The sooner incompetent corrupt Chloe is handed her P45 the better! |
I've emailed her a few times to ask her to show some basic decency and not just vote with her party. I always get the party line in response. She is a terrible MP. Karen seems alright, she gave a good speech at the stop the coup demo outside City Hall in September. | |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:29 - Nov 7 with 2089 views | GeoffSentence |
| Don't vote tactically on 09:22 - Nov 7 by Dyland |
"You don't *have* to vote and if enough people don't we may find politics changes for the better."
You silly sausage you. |
He has a point.
The lower the turnout the lower the democratic legitimacy of the vote.
Guthers has a point that turnout may have to go really low before anything is done, on the other hand consistently low turnouts may do it eventually.
Our system has to be one of, if not the singlemost, undemocratic system in the western world. FPTP means that in effect our elections are decided in a handful of places and ensures that people vote tactically instead of what they actually believe in.
What is worse is that our second chamber is totally unelected and includes hereditary members. How is this possible in a supposed democracy. |  |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:29 - Nov 7 with 2080 views | uefacup81 |
| Don't vote tactically on 09:28 - Nov 7 by Herbivore |
I've emailed her a few times to ask her to show some basic decency and not just vote with her party. I always get the party line in response. She is a terrible MP. Karen seems alright, she gave a good speech at the stop the coup demo outside City Hall in September. |
Then there's the whole Parliamentary credit card shenanigans.
If I messed up my work expenses just once I'd be warned about it. I wouldn't even get the chance to do it fourteen times! | |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:31 - Nov 7 with 2076 views | StokieBlue |
| Don't vote tactically on 09:29 - Nov 7 by GeoffSentence |
He has a point.
The lower the turnout the lower the democratic legitimacy of the vote.
Guthers has a point that turnout may have to go really low before anything is done, on the other hand consistently low turnouts may do it eventually.
Our system has to be one of, if not the singlemost, undemocratic system in the western world. FPTP means that in effect our elections are decided in a handful of places and ensures that people vote tactically instead of what they actually believe in.
What is worse is that our second chamber is totally unelected and includes hereditary members. How is this possible in a supposed democracy. |
"The lower the turnout the lower the democratic legitimacy of the vote."
This isn't really true though. Conceptually it might be true but in law it isn't. The government formed would still be as legitimate as any other we have had.
Some on here previously were pushing that in order for something to be democratically legitimate it should have a majority of the people eligible to vote, not those that do vote. This is nonsense and was quite annoying during the Brexit debates on here.
SB [Post edited 7 Nov 2019 9:33]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:34 - Nov 7 with 2054 views | Herbivore |
| Don't vote tactically on 09:31 - Nov 7 by StokieBlue |
"The lower the turnout the lower the democratic legitimacy of the vote."
This isn't really true though. Conceptually it might be true but in law it isn't. The government formed would still be as legitimate as any other we have had.
Some on here previously were pushing that in order for something to be democratically legitimate it should have a majority of the people eligible to vote, not those that do vote. This is nonsense and was quite annoying during the Brexit debates on here.
SB [Post edited 7 Nov 2019 9:33]
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Indeed. And low turnout alone won't bring about change, without protest it will just look like apathy. | |
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| Don't vote tactically on 09:40 - Nov 7 with 2034 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Don't vote tactically on 09:34 - Nov 7 by Herbivore |
Indeed. And low turnout alone won't bring about change, without protest it will just look like apathy. |
So be sure to follow it up! | |
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