| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? 13:48 - Nov 12 with 21383 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
The Tories campaign basically amounts to being ‘Not Corbyn’, getting Brexit done plus lots of promises which almost certainly haven’t been costed and won’t be delivered
The Labour campaign amounts to being ‘Not the Tories’, maybe getting Brexit done plus lots of promises which almost certainly haven’t been costed and won’t be delivered
The Lib Dem’s campaign amounts to being ‘Not the Tories or Labour’, abandoning Brexit...and that’s about it?
Then all the small parties (plus SNP but no one other than Darth cares about Scotland)
I know it’s early days yet but that’s pretty much it isn’t it? |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 10:31 - Nov 13 with 3709 views | giant_stow |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 10:23 - Nov 13 by chicoazul |
Sorty luv but I cannot agree that anyone has a duty to vote. If J2 lives in for instance, Islington or Witham or Hackney there is literally no point in voting *but* there is a point in *not* voting. the more people who dont vote the less legitimacy political parties will have which may force them to change to reflect what people want from their representatives.
However I believe it won't be long before voting becomes mandatory in the UK if you are on the electoral roll and another of our hard won freedoms will be forgotten. |
Small point of order m'lover: Emily Thornbury's seat is in play according to stories yesterday about someone's internal polling. |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 10:34 - Nov 13 with 3705 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 10:31 - Nov 13 by giant_stow |
Small point of order m'lover: Emily Thornbury's seat is in play according to stories yesterday about someone's internal polling. |
Lib Dems have their eye on it. |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 10:45 - Nov 13 with 3690 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 10:00 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
Personally I don’t care if you vote for the candidate with the best chance of unseating or blocking a Tory/Brexit Party candidate. That’s the priority.
Maybe look at where and why people are being called the “enemy”. Rather than pretending it’s some attack on all floating voters. |
This chain of the thread has literally arisen from a vocal Labour supporter attacking a floating voter in a marginal seat currently held by Labour, for not immediately declaring his support for Labour... | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 10:54 - Nov 13 with 3671 views | chicoazul |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 10:31 - Nov 13 by giant_stow |
Small point of order m'lover: Emily Thornbury's seat is in play according to stories yesterday about someone's internal polling. |
Sorry I meant The Maximum Leader's seat in Islington. |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 10:57 - Nov 13 with 3658 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 10:45 - Nov 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
This chain of the thread has literally arisen from a vocal Labour supporter attacking a floating voter in a marginal seat currently held by Labour, for not immediately declaring his support for Labour... |
Hmmm J2.
To be fair, you have to challenge him on his positions quite often. Reducing it to what his vote or non-vote means electorally i.e. helping keep a Tory government or helping stop one is fair enough. |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 11:01 - Nov 13 with 3640 views | GaryCooper |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 10:45 - Nov 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
This chain of the thread has literally arisen from a vocal Labour supporter attacking a floating voter in a marginal seat currently held by Labour, for not immediately declaring his support for Labour... |
For the many...…………………... |  | | |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 11:08 - Nov 13 with 3613 views | GaryCooper |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 09:39 - Nov 13 by GlasgowBlue |
Since the election of the dear leader, any dissenting voices from decent lifelong Labour campaigners who have worked all their life to get the Tories out have been met with the cry "Why don't you just fcuk off and join the Tories"!!!!
You are either with the Jeziah or you are the enemy. No grey area. |
A former Bridge ward councillor, Labour activist and NUPE delegate is not proper labour according to Z last week, this is the momentum way forward, divide, moan and lose. | | | |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 11:38 - Nov 13 with 3569 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 10:57 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
Hmmm J2.
To be fair, you have to challenge him on his positions quite often. Reducing it to what his vote or non-vote means electorally i.e. helping keep a Tory government or helping stop one is fair enough. |
‘Challenge him on his position’ and ‘reducing it to what his vote or non-vote mean electorally’
Comments directed at J2 by that particular posted included:
‘Maybe it’s best you don’t vote after all!!’
‘All you want to do is sit on your arse and whinge’
‘What have you done for society recently?’
‘Some melt like J2, who has presumably done nowt’
‘Such a lazy, asocial POV’
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 11:41 - Nov 13 with 3558 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 11:38 - Nov 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
‘Challenge him on his position’ and ‘reducing it to what his vote or non-vote mean electorally’
Comments directed at J2 by that particular posted included:
‘Maybe it’s best you don’t vote after all!!’
‘All you want to do is sit on your arse and whinge’
‘What have you done for society recently?’
‘Some melt like J2, who has presumably done nowt’
‘Such a lazy, asocial POV’
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Bullying, shaming and emotional blackmail.
What a way to win hearts and minds. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 11:46 - Nov 13 with 3548 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 11:38 - Nov 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
‘Challenge him on his position’ and ‘reducing it to what his vote or non-vote mean electorally’
Comments directed at J2 by that particular posted included:
‘Maybe it’s best you don’t vote after all!!’
‘All you want to do is sit on your arse and whinge’
‘What have you done for society recently?’
‘Some melt like J2, who has presumably done nowt’
‘Such a lazy, asocial POV’
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Harsh but not exactly unfair.
J2 often reserves his own harsher criticisms for those who want a better world than the one we've currently got. It's all a bit misanthropic and pessimistic. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:18 - Nov 13 with 3508 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 11:46 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
Harsh but not exactly unfair.
J2 often reserves his own harsher criticisms for those who want a better world than the one we've currently got. It's all a bit misanthropic and pessimistic. |
But whether it’s fair or not or how J2 interacts (although I couldn’t disagree more with that assessment btw) is irrelevant
The point is the Labour Party need his vote, and should be trying to win it, not have its supporters potentially alienate him
Genuinely staggering | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:19 - Nov 13 with 3502 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:18 - Nov 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
But whether it’s fair or not or how J2 interacts (although I couldn’t disagree more with that assessment btw) is irrelevant
The point is the Labour Party need his vote, and should be trying to win it, not have its supporters potentially alienate him
Genuinely staggering |
Bit of an extrapolation based on two posters who are familiar with each other, isn't it? | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:25 - Nov 13 with 3477 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:19 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
Bit of an extrapolation based on two posters who are familiar with each other, isn't it? |
Not really no, I’m talking about that specific interaction
Although seeing as you mentioned it, if I was to extrapolate I would note that it does seem fairly typical of a vocal minority of Labour supporters, which I do think is a factor in some swing voters turning their noses up at the party | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:32 - Nov 13 with 3458 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:25 - Nov 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Not really no, I’m talking about that specific interaction
Although seeing as you mentioned it, if I was to extrapolate I would note that it does seem fairly typical of a vocal minority of Labour supporters, which I do think is a factor in some swing voters turning their noses up at the party |
I'll need specifics although of course you want people trying to engage before the insults come.
OveralI though, I think it's important to be clear with people what their vote means in our flawed FPTP system and in marginals especially. Winning the election (even with a minority of the population who don't agree with all of the manifesto) will be turned into a mandate - so that practical truth can't just be ignored. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:36 - Nov 13 with 3438 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:32 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
I'll need specifics although of course you want people trying to engage before the insults come.
OveralI though, I think it's important to be clear with people what their vote means in our flawed FPTP system and in marginals especially. Winning the election (even with a minority of the population who don't agree with all of the manifesto) will be turned into a mandate - so that practical truth can't just be ignored. |
Again, my comment is re the abusive elements of the post, making a case that people should vote Labour to prevent the alternative is fine
Although that rather neatly brings me back to my OP, doesn’t it? | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:47 - Nov 13 with 3413 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:36 - Nov 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Again, my comment is re the abusive elements of the post, making a case that people should vote Labour to prevent the alternative is fine
Although that rather neatly brings me back to my OP, doesn’t it? |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/oct/31/uk-general-elect
There is no alternative to the Tory government other than voting Labour generally, LibDem in a minority of seats and SNP in the majority of Scotland. With a few Plaid and Green seats dotted around.
Stopping another Tory government is the most concrete policy in the UK given the actual evience of the past 9 years as well as the Brexit mess and looming "deal".
Anyone arguing the toss about what their vote *should* mean is missing the point. Even if I'd probably agree with them in theory.
Your "much of a muchness", "there are good people on both sides" analysis doesn't deal with that reality either. So I understand footers' frustration about the need for people to get real. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:53 - Nov 13 with 3390 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:47 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/oct/31/uk-general-elect
There is no alternative to the Tory government other than voting Labour generally, LibDem in a minority of seats and SNP in the majority of Scotland. With a few Plaid and Green seats dotted around.
Stopping another Tory government is the most concrete policy in the UK given the actual evience of the past 9 years as well as the Brexit mess and looming "deal".
Anyone arguing the toss about what their vote *should* mean is missing the point. Even if I'd probably agree with them in theory.
Your "much of a muchness", "there are good people on both sides" analysis doesn't deal with that reality either. So I understand footers' frustration about the need for people to get real. |
Do you actually read anything that is posted?
My OP quite literally states that the main argument for voting Labour is that they are ‘Not the Tories’, and at no point have I implied that there are good people on all sides. Quite the opposite in fact | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:58 - Nov 13 with 3364 views | crunchie1978 |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:47 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/oct/31/uk-general-elect
There is no alternative to the Tory government other than voting Labour generally, LibDem in a minority of seats and SNP in the majority of Scotland. With a few Plaid and Green seats dotted around.
Stopping another Tory government is the most concrete policy in the UK given the actual evience of the past 9 years as well as the Brexit mess and looming "deal".
Anyone arguing the toss about what their vote *should* mean is missing the point. Even if I'd probably agree with them in theory.
Your "much of a muchness", "there are good people on both sides" analysis doesn't deal with that reality either. So I understand footers' frustration about the need for people to get real. |
So if you get your wish and you stop a Tory government...how do you envisage your life and the life of others improving? |  | | |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:02 - Nov 13 with 3352 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:53 - Nov 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Do you actually read anything that is posted?
My OP quite literally states that the main argument for voting Labour is that they are ‘Not the Tories’, and at no point have I implied that there are good people on all sides. Quite the opposite in fact |
Woah! I know you didn't say that, it was the Trumpian false equivalence argument I was trying to get across.
Forgive me if I don't want to sleepwalk into the next phase of Tory-led clownf@ckery because you're saying that all politicians are a bit sh!t so there's no point.
And there's actually plenty of room to discuss the last 9+ years and the new direction Labour is talking about if you want to discuss it. Complaining about the political agenda that the media and too many politicians have set but then sticking to it yourself is all a little odd. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:04 - Nov 13 with 3341 views | lowhouseblue |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:02 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
Woah! I know you didn't say that, it was the Trumpian false equivalence argument I was trying to get across.
Forgive me if I don't want to sleepwalk into the next phase of Tory-led clownf@ckery because you're saying that all politicians are a bit sh!t so there's no point.
And there's actually plenty of room to discuss the last 9+ years and the new direction Labour is talking about if you want to discuss it. Complaining about the political agenda that the media and too many politicians have set but then sticking to it yourself is all a little odd. |
all the evidence at the moment is that you and people like you are bringing about the 'next phase of Tory-led clownf@ckery' . |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:10 - Nov 13 with 3311 views | Pinewoodblue |
Another Tory candidate haß stood down. The guy who was deselected from his seat in South Wales following a conviction for expenses fraud was chosen as candidate for Yns Mon. More imposed on the constituency from Central office. He is standing down to protect his family, they have 24 hrs to find a replacement.
All mà jor parties à re guilty of impossing candidates in this way. Probably the main objection I have to proportional representation which relies on lists. |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:12 - Nov 13 with 3304 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:04 - Nov 13 by lowhouseblue |
all the evidence at the moment is that you and people like you are bringing about the 'next phase of Tory-led clownf@ckery' . |
By promoting the alternative Labour are offering or smearing them for years?
I think I'll sleep well enough on that score, thanks. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:12 - Nov 13 with 3302 views | J2BLUE |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 11:46 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
Harsh but not exactly unfair.
J2 often reserves his own harsher criticisms for those who want a better world than the one we've currently got. It's all a bit misanthropic and pessimistic. |
Can I have an example? I'm not denying you will come up with any because you probably will but I feel there should be context applied. I feel like i'm quite fair and balanced which these days tends to upset a lot of people in our black and white world.
Also I feel it's perfectly acceptable to discuss the labour party when people are talking about the Tories. It drives me mad when people start on about 'whataboutery' etc when it's generally accepted that there are two options. |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:15 - Nov 13 with 3285 views | lowhouseblue |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:12 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
By promoting the alternative Labour are offering or smearing them for years?
I think I'll sleep well enough on that score, thanks. |
we'll see. but if we get 5 more years of the tories people like you will own that 100%. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:15 - Nov 13 with 3281 views | J2BLUE |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 12:47 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/oct/31/uk-general-elect
There is no alternative to the Tory government other than voting Labour generally, LibDem in a minority of seats and SNP in the majority of Scotland. With a few Plaid and Green seats dotted around.
Stopping another Tory government is the most concrete policy in the UK given the actual evience of the past 9 years as well as the Brexit mess and looming "deal".
Anyone arguing the toss about what their vote *should* mean is missing the point. Even if I'd probably agree with them in theory.
Your "much of a muchness", "there are good people on both sides" analysis doesn't deal with that reality either. So I understand footers' frustration about the need for people to get real. |
'There is no alternative to the Tory government other than voting Labour generally, LibDem in a minority of seats and SNP in the majority of Scotland.'
Can I ask who you will be voting for? The more votes Labour get and the more seats they win the more chance of a Labour led coalition (it won't be led by anyone else). So can I ask if you are voting Labour or are you sticking with the SNP? | |
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