| The country is broken 09:05 - Jan 6 with 6367 views | Herbivore |
This is pretty sickening. By the end of today, top executives will have earnt more than most working people in the UK will earn this year. By lunchtime they'll have earnt more than newly qualified teachers and nurses. By the end of Friday they'd earnt more than virtually all cleaners, shop workers, waiting staff, teaching assistants, health care assistants, and carers - the people that keep the world ticking over. This level of inequality is utterly absurd and unjustifiable.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51000217
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| The country is broken - No it's not. on 14:20 - Jan 6 with 686 views | eireblue |
| The country is broken - No it's not. on 14:01 - Jan 6 by hampstead_blue |
'Success' can be used in loads of contexts. I've used it as those who've got themselves great compensation packages.
There are plenty of utterly crap teachers as well. Problem is that it's hard to fire them as they have a job for life pretty much. |
That last comment seems somewhat emotional and not based on rational fact.
There are well-defined processes for addressing and remediating and if necessary firing staff in any sector, in-order not to be violating employment law.
Sacking a CEO of a public company is quite interesting. Especially since this would indicate non-performance to the market, and have an effect on share price, which will materially effect all the people that tend to make an assessment on whether a CEO is doing well.
I think you will find many a CEO has been promoted to the board. |  | | |
| The country is broken on 14:30 - Jan 6 with 667 views | baltimore_suey |
| The country is broken on 14:20 - Jan 6 by tractordownsouth |
If you work full time on minimum wage you are classed as being in relative poverty. Does that provide an incentive to work? |
tt depends what you mean by 'relative poverty'...a phrase which is now fashionable for people who cant accept that people will work hard and be richer than them |  | | |
| The country is broken on 14:33 - Jan 6 with 659 views | Herbivore |
| The country is broken on 14:30 - Jan 6 by baltimore_suey |
tt depends what you mean by 'relative poverty'...a phrase which is now fashionable for people who cant accept that people will work hard and be richer than them |
Why are you entering a debate you have nothing to add to? | |
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| The country is broken - No it's not. on 14:36 - Jan 6 with 653 views | hampstead_blue |
| The country is broken - No it's not. on 14:20 - Jan 6 by eireblue |
That last comment seems somewhat emotional and not based on rational fact.
There are well-defined processes for addressing and remediating and if necessary firing staff in any sector, in-order not to be violating employment law.
Sacking a CEO of a public company is quite interesting. Especially since this would indicate non-performance to the market, and have an effect on share price, which will materially effect all the people that tend to make an assessment on whether a CEO is doing well.
I think you will find many a CEO has been promoted to the board. |
Sacking a teacher is incredibly hard. They have to drop an absolute stinker to get shown the door.
Let's not get away from the point. A bad comparison. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| The country is broken on 14:42 - Jan 6 with 642 views | noggin |
| The country is broken on 14:30 - Jan 6 by baltimore_suey |
tt depends what you mean by 'relative poverty'...a phrase which is now fashionable for people who cant accept that people will work hard and be richer than them |
FFS. |  |
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| The country is broken on 14:53 - Jan 6 with 612 views | baltimore_suey |
| The country is broken on 14:33 - Jan 6 by Herbivore |
Why are you entering a debate you have nothing to add to? |
the point is that youre gonna have rich bosses, and this has no effect on the poor...apart from all rhe philanthropists you want to do away with...then youll end up worse [Post edited 6 Jan 2020 14:55]
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| The country is broken on 14:55 - Jan 6 with 602 views | Herbivore |
| The country is broken on 14:53 - Jan 6 by baltimore_suey |
the point is that youre gonna have rich bosses, and this has no effect on the poor...apart from all rhe philanthropists you want to do away with...then youll end up worse [Post edited 6 Jan 2020 14:55]
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So still nothing to add to the debate. | |
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| The country is broken on 15:06 - Jan 6 with 572 views | baltimore_suey |
| The country is broken on 14:55 - Jan 6 by Herbivore |
So still nothing to add to the debate. |
still no response, which is understandable!! | | | |
| The country is broken on 15:17 - Jan 6 with 542 views | tractordownsouth |
| The country is broken on 14:30 - Jan 6 by baltimore_suey |
tt depends what you mean by 'relative poverty'...a phrase which is now fashionable for people who cant accept that people will work hard and be richer than them |
Relative poverty is someone earning less than 60% of median income within a country. |  |
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| The country is broken on 15:18 - Jan 6 with 536 views | Darth_Koont |
| The country is broken on 14:17 - Jan 6 by tractordownsouth |
How many times does it have to spelled out, PEOPLE DON'T THINK THAT THE RICH DON'T WORK HARD, we just want a system that recognises that people on low wages work hard also and that they deserve a fairer slice of the pie. Like the people who work for minimum wage in poor conditions making Mike Ashley a millionaire. Do you honestly think he works 1000 times harder than his employees? of course not. Do you think a trader in canary wharf works 1000 times harder than people in the care industry? of course not.
Wages don't depend on how important your work is, it's dependent on the wealth of the person that your work is important to. |
Indeed.
Does anyone really think a nurse objectively deserves 20K and a hedge fund manager objectively deserves 20 million? Absolutely nothing to do with how hard they work or how important their job is - it's purely indicative of the values of the employer and employee. [Post edited 6 Jan 2020 15:21]
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| The country is broken on 15:19 - Jan 6 with 533 views | tractordownsouth |
| The country is broken on 14:53 - Jan 6 by baltimore_suey |
the point is that youre gonna have rich bosses, and this has no effect on the poor...apart from all rhe philanthropists you want to do away with...then youll end up worse [Post edited 6 Jan 2020 14:55]
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Doff cap
Tug forelock
Vote Rees Mogg | |
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| The country is broken on 15:20 - Jan 6 with 527 views | tractordownsouth |
| The country is broken on 15:18 - Jan 6 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
Does anyone really think a nurse objectively deserves 20K and a hedge fund manager objectively deserves 20 million? Absolutely nothing to do with how hard they work or how important their job is - it's purely indicative of the values of the employer and employee. [Post edited 6 Jan 2020 15:21]
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Unfortunately we are a nation that has been gaslit into bootlicking those with disproportionate levels of wealth. | |
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| The country is broken on 15:24 - Jan 6 with 510 views | Herbivore |
| The country is broken on 15:06 - Jan 6 by baltimore_suey |
still no response, which is understandable!! |
You're offering nothing to respond to. | |
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| The country is broken on 15:25 - Jan 6 with 507 views | DanTheMan |
| The country is broken on 15:18 - Jan 6 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
Does anyone really think a nurse objectively deserves 20K and a hedge fund manager objectively deserves 20 million? Absolutely nothing to do with how hard they work or how important their job is - it's purely indicative of the values of the employer and employee. [Post edited 6 Jan 2020 15:21]
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It's just luck, really. And I don't mean that as a criticism to hedge fund managers.
They were lucky to be born in a time and place where the skills they have meant they can make extortionate amounts of money. The same person born in the some remote village in India would have been very unlikely to have made the same money.
I'm myself lucky to be born in a time and place where my own skills are actually in demand. Go back a hundred or so years and my skills would have been essentially useless. |  |
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| The country is broken on 15:29 - Jan 6 with 490 views | Darth_Koont |
| The country is broken on 15:20 - Jan 6 by tractordownsouth |
Unfortunately we are a nation that has been gaslit into bootlicking those with disproportionate levels of wealth. |
Yep. And in giving undeserved respect to those people we've simultaneously denied respect to those in society who need it more. Like those working in healthcare, education and social services - not to mention the people who make use of those resources.
We've become a remarkably selfish and self-satisfied society over the past few decades. | |
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| The country is broken on 15:36 - Jan 6 with 469 views | WD19 |
| The country is broken on 15:29 - Jan 6 by Darth_Koont |
Yep. And in giving undeserved respect to those people we've simultaneously denied respect to those in society who need it more. Like those working in healthcare, education and social services - not to mention the people who make use of those resources.
We've become a remarkably selfish and self-satisfied society over the past few decades. |
Self-satisfaction is definitely something modern society has in abundance......I'll give you that.... |  | | |
| The country is broken on 15:36 - Jan 6 with 468 views | Darth_Koont |
| The country is broken on 15:25 - Jan 6 by DanTheMan |
It's just luck, really. And I don't mean that as a criticism to hedge fund managers.
They were lucky to be born in a time and place where the skills they have meant they can make extortionate amounts of money. The same person born in the some remote village in India would have been very unlikely to have made the same money.
I'm myself lucky to be born in a time and place where my own skills are actually in demand. Go back a hundred or so years and my skills would have been essentially useless. |
Sorry, but that's nonsensical.
What are the unique skills of a hedge fund manager, given 99% of the country have never been involved in anything like it?
The system is flawed rather than these individuals are standing out as particularly talented.
I have friends from school and uni who have done incredibly well in the City through law and banking. What set them apart was A/ that they wanted to do it and B/ they invariably came from an upper middle-class world where it was seen as natural. But they're not special even by their own admission. | |
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| The country is broken on 15:40 - Jan 6 with 453 views | No9 |
| The country is broken on 10:01 - Jan 6 by Guthrum |
One issue is that senior executive pay and bonuses are decided by a Rumuneration Committee, staffed by supposedly independent part-time Non-Executive Directors on the Board. However, these people are drawn from a small set of individuals who all know each other and sit on the boards of each other's companies, other organisations and charitable interests. |
You scratch my back - I'll scratch yours? |  | | |
| The country is broken on 15:45 - Jan 6 with 443 views | Herbivore |
| The country is broken on 15:25 - Jan 6 by DanTheMan |
It's just luck, really. And I don't mean that as a criticism to hedge fund managers.
They were lucky to be born in a time and place where the skills they have meant they can make extortionate amounts of money. The same person born in the some remote village in India would have been very unlikely to have made the same money.
I'm myself lucky to be born in a time and place where my own skills are actually in demand. Go back a hundred or so years and my skills would have been essentially useless. |
It's also a by-product of essentially unregulated, rampant capitalism. Money begets money, those who have it to invest can grow it significantly through things like hedge funds whilst contributing nothing of actual value to society. At the same time occupations that have high social utility - like nursing, teaching, care-giving - don't have the capacity to produce capital and so aren't valued, not in terms of renumeration at least.
I find it utterly mental that nurses on average earn under £25k a year, not even the national average salary for a profession that requires a degree level education and that is essential to a healthy, functioning society. At the same time someone whose role is to essentially gamble a rich person's money for them with the sole aim of earning them more money can earn themselves millions of pounds in the process.
People can bang on about jealousy, envy, 'wealth creation', hard work etc. all they like, but I don't see how it justifies these kinds of inequalities. And what does it say about our society that we value people who literally save lives so little in comparison to those who simply make rich people richer? | |
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| The country is broken - No it's not. on 15:48 - Jan 6 with 436 views | eireblue |
| The country is broken - No it's not. on 14:36 - Jan 6 by hampstead_blue |
Sacking a teacher is incredibly hard. They have to drop an absolute stinker to get shown the door.
Let's not get away from the point. A bad comparison. |
So to summarise then, to get back on your substantive points
life is unfair,
UK economy is fine
Your solution to improve matters is a socialist one whereby SME’s are encouraged through taxation to give away >50% of their profits. Which of course would inhibit their growth.
And, you have been shouted at by an as yet unnamed pleb.
Out of curiosity, how do you stop a company that is on target to make say 100K profit, pay all its executives an extra say 15k bonus, and then declare a profit of 10k, and give away 5k.
The executives have worked hard to successfully make that profit.
Again, as always, please try and come up with a solution that can’t be labelled socialist by the right wing press.
I think, by the way the comparison is of course relevant.
For instance the teaching profession is very difficult, it is very important, and the attrition rate for teachers is something like 23% of people leave teaching after five years.
Teachers are paid in the main, by money. Which doesn’t come from trees apparently.
It comes from, according to the Tory party, a successful economy.
I think what they actually mean by that is taxation from the economy.
So if we need to have new intelligent successful people in the future, we can either import them or teach children currently in the UK. Be good if such people remained healthy.
Taxing the economy means, I believe from what Tories tell me, taxing companies, goods, earnings and of course wealth.
That so much more wealth is not being used to help with the needs of things like teaching children, than has been the case in the past, that maybe somewhat worth thinking about.
The metric cited in the OP is in fact a very good way to visualise the disparity in wealth, since visualising 1, 2, 40 billion and what that means is a difficult thing to do without the numbers being contextualised.
Of course it seems obvious to me why some people may not want to think about that comparison. | | | |
| The country is broken on 15:59 - Jan 6 with 412 views | DanTheMan |
| The country is broken on 15:36 - Jan 6 by Darth_Koont |
Sorry, but that's nonsensical.
What are the unique skills of a hedge fund manager, given 99% of the country have never been involved in anything like it?
The system is flawed rather than these individuals are standing out as particularly talented.
I have friends from school and uni who have done incredibly well in the City through law and banking. What set them apart was A/ that they wanted to do it and B/ they invariably came from an upper middle-class world where it was seen as natural. But they're not special even by their own admission. |
I imagine there are a lot of failed ones. They are good at whatever it is they do, I'm not going to pretend to know what it is as my understanding is fairly limited. I imagine the incredibly wealthy ones are even better at it. They are just an example though, you could use some of the billionaires for the same point. For example, I doubt Mark Zuckerberg is the best programmer out there, but I imagine he has a rather unique blend of being born in the right place and time, with the right upbringing to allow him to be decent enough programmer and businessman to achieve what he has. That's not to take away from how hard he works or whatever, just that there is absolutely a level of luck to being successful that some people I think really don't want to acknowledge.
As you say, your friends by their own admission have got very lucky with their upbringing, but they still need to be skilled in whatever it is they do. If they were completely rubbish at it I would imagine they would be fired at some point. | |
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| The country is broken on 16:09 - Jan 6 with 395 views | baltimore_suey |
| The country is broken on 15:24 - Jan 6 by Herbivore |
You're offering nothing to respond to. |
If the people dont wanna hear the obvious, no wonder its broken... | | | |
| The country is broken on 16:12 - Jan 6 with 388 views | Herbivore |
| The country is broken on 16:09 - Jan 6 by baltimore_suey |
If the people dont wanna hear the obvious, no wonder its broken... |
Still nothing to add. | |
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| The country is broken on 16:38 - Jan 6 with 363 views | baltimore_suey |
| The country is broken on 16:12 - Jan 6 by Herbivore |
Still nothing to add. |
Thanx for proving my point  | | | |
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