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The Goop Lab on Netflix 11:53 - Jan 17 with 2689 viewsStokieBlue

Shame on them for allowing this bastion of pseudoscience to access a huge audience:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2230459-the-goop-lab-on-netflix-shows-how-e

The writer pretty much nails why it's an awful idea:

"These kinds of alternative therapies might seem harmless, but when people rely on them to treat serious illnesses it can be deadly. People with cancer who use complementary therapies tend to reject conventional treatment and so can be less likely to survive their disease than those who don’t. The show states at the beginning of each episode that people shouldn’t take it as medical advice, but the impact of a 10-second disclaimer seems tiny compared with half an hour of beautiful Californians saying how awesome they feel."

"Like a car-crash unfolding in front of me, once I started watching The Goop Lab I couldn’t look away. In fact, it is so bad it is good — a masterclass in how to defend pseudoscience with a few logical fallacies, non-sequiturs and bit of cherry picking.


I am aware this is pseudo-promoting it to people on here but lets face it, come the 24th it'll be the first thing everyone sees when they turn on Netflix and the auto-trailer begins and by then it'll be too late.

SB


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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:03 - Jan 17 with 2274 viewsBlueBadger

*something about 'alternative opinion' being as valuable as facts here*

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:07 - Jan 17 with 2267 viewsBrixtonBlue

On a related topic, I was wondering earlier why Homeopathy works for many people when science says it doesn't (other than placebo). I'm reading Physics of the Impossible by Michio Kaku and it occurred to me that perhaps Homeopathy works on a quantum level, which is why science finds it hard to evaluate.

Quantum stuff fascinates me, is utterly peculiar, and flies in the face of a lot of what science has told us up until now - like teleportation is now possible for single molecules, or how a molecule out in space will change in the same way as its corresponding one on Earth instantaneously and no-one understands why (because it's quicker than the speed of light, which should be impossible).

Add to this molecules that only act in a certain way when being observed. Could this be why Homeopathy doesn't adequately work under scientific scrutiny?

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:11 - Jan 17 with 2261 viewsBlueBadger

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:07 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

On a related topic, I was wondering earlier why Homeopathy works for many people when science says it doesn't (other than placebo). I'm reading Physics of the Impossible by Michio Kaku and it occurred to me that perhaps Homeopathy works on a quantum level, which is why science finds it hard to evaluate.

Quantum stuff fascinates me, is utterly peculiar, and flies in the face of a lot of what science has told us up until now - like teleportation is now possible for single molecules, or how a molecule out in space will change in the same way as its corresponding one on Earth instantaneously and no-one understands why (because it's quicker than the speed of light, which should be impossible).

Add to this molecules that only act in a certain way when being observed. Could this be why Homeopathy doesn't adequately work under scientific scrutiny?


Nah, combination of Placebo effect and generally people are resorting to these things when they think conventional treatments have 'failed' - generally they haven't, it's just that the effects often take longer to kick in than most lay people think and they're usually starting to turn the corner when they visit a quack.

'It works on a quantum level' is often pseudoscience-speak for 'it's magic'.

Ben Goldacre's 'Bad Science' book discusses this brilliantly.
[Post edited 17 Jan 2020 12:16]

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:19 - Jan 17 with 2237 viewsBrixtonBlue

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:11 - Jan 17 by BlueBadger

Nah, combination of Placebo effect and generally people are resorting to these things when they think conventional treatments have 'failed' - generally they haven't, it's just that the effects often take longer to kick in than most lay people think and they're usually starting to turn the corner when they visit a quack.

'It works on a quantum level' is often pseudoscience-speak for 'it's magic'.

Ben Goldacre's 'Bad Science' book discusses this brilliantly.
[Post edited 17 Jan 2020 12:16]


I noticed when I was last at my brother's that he had a copy of that book on his shelf... a few books along from a book on Homeopathy. Which amused me.

All you've really done here is repeat the widely held belief that Homeopathy = placebo. End of discussion. You've not offered any opinion on my quantum physics theory.

I don't know if anyone can tell but I'm not an expert on quantum physics, so it would be good if someone who is can chip in with their thoughts (or you can, if you have some).

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:19 - Jan 17 with 2239 viewseireblue

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:07 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

On a related topic, I was wondering earlier why Homeopathy works for many people when science says it doesn't (other than placebo). I'm reading Physics of the Impossible by Michio Kaku and it occurred to me that perhaps Homeopathy works on a quantum level, which is why science finds it hard to evaluate.

Quantum stuff fascinates me, is utterly peculiar, and flies in the face of a lot of what science has told us up until now - like teleportation is now possible for single molecules, or how a molecule out in space will change in the same way as its corresponding one on Earth instantaneously and no-one understands why (because it's quicker than the speed of light, which should be impossible).

Add to this molecules that only act in a certain way when being observed. Could this be why Homeopathy doesn't adequately work under scientific scrutiny?


No.

Any type of medical intervention, needs to be better than a placebo, in order for it to have value.

Otherwise, you may as well give people a sugar pill, but tell them it is using quantum fluctuations between string interactions to break the bonds between the molecules that are attacking their system.

Homeopathy has been tested many times. It doesn’t out perform a placebo.

However if you are interested in my quantum tablets, I am prepared to offer discounts to TWTD posters, just PM me.

By the way, because of “the man” and big pharma I tend to disguise the tablets as a Vegan M&M product.
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:22 - Jan 17 with 2235 viewsBlueBadger

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:19 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

I noticed when I was last at my brother's that he had a copy of that book on his shelf... a few books along from a book on Homeopathy. Which amused me.

All you've really done here is repeat the widely held belief that Homeopathy = placebo. End of discussion. You've not offered any opinion on my quantum physics theory.

I don't know if anyone can tell but I'm not an expert on quantum physics, so it would be good if someone who is can chip in with their thoughts (or you can, if you have some).


Mate of mine who teaches physics once defined quantum physics as 'if you understand it, it's not quantum physics'.
[Post edited 17 Jan 2020 12:27]

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 13:03 - Jan 17 with 2172 viewssparks

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:07 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

On a related topic, I was wondering earlier why Homeopathy works for many people when science says it doesn't (other than placebo). I'm reading Physics of the Impossible by Michio Kaku and it occurred to me that perhaps Homeopathy works on a quantum level, which is why science finds it hard to evaluate.

Quantum stuff fascinates me, is utterly peculiar, and flies in the face of a lot of what science has told us up until now - like teleportation is now possible for single molecules, or how a molecule out in space will change in the same way as its corresponding one on Earth instantaneously and no-one understands why (because it's quicker than the speed of light, which should be impossible).

Add to this molecules that only act in a certain way when being observed. Could this be why Homeopathy doesn't adequately work under scientific scrutiny?


Oh good grief. Just watch any debate between deepak chopra and anyone with basic knowledge of science. Stop buying into the woo.

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 13:26 - Jan 17 with 2159 viewsStokieBlue

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:07 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

On a related topic, I was wondering earlier why Homeopathy works for many people when science says it doesn't (other than placebo). I'm reading Physics of the Impossible by Michio Kaku and it occurred to me that perhaps Homeopathy works on a quantum level, which is why science finds it hard to evaluate.

Quantum stuff fascinates me, is utterly peculiar, and flies in the face of a lot of what science has told us up until now - like teleportation is now possible for single molecules, or how a molecule out in space will change in the same way as its corresponding one on Earth instantaneously and no-one understands why (because it's quicker than the speed of light, which should be impossible).

Add to this molecules that only act in a certain way when being observed. Could this be why Homeopathy doesn't adequately work under scientific scrutiny?


You've answered your own question in your first line.

It doesn't work for anyone other than placebo. In reality the homeopathy aspect it irrelevant.

We can do quantum physics if you like but your examples aren't correct. They don't fly in the face of science, in fact science discovered them in the 1920's. There is some debate about quantum entanglement and teleportation isn't what you are thinking. They destroy a particle in one location and then impart the information it had onto another one at a different location. It's not beam me up Scotty.

Particles (it's not molecules) don't only work in a certain way when observed. Until they are observed they exists in a state of quantum superposition which means their values can be all possible values and then when they are observed they focus to a single value. It's how quantum computers work and why they should be able to do problems that traditional computers can't really solve.

I think to invoke quantum theory as a method of possible explanation for something that simply doesn't work is stretching things quite a bit, especially as it's not actually provided an explanation and it won't - because homeopathy itself doesn't work.

SB

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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 13:28 - Jan 17 with 2154 viewsStokieBlue

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 12:19 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

I noticed when I was last at my brother's that he had a copy of that book on his shelf... a few books along from a book on Homeopathy. Which amused me.

All you've really done here is repeat the widely held belief that Homeopathy = placebo. End of discussion. You've not offered any opinion on my quantum physics theory.

I don't know if anyone can tell but I'm not an expert on quantum physics, so it would be good if someone who is can chip in with their thoughts (or you can, if you have some).


"All you've really done here is repeat the widely held belief that Homeopathy = placebo. End of discussion. You've not offered any opinion on my quantum physics theory."

This isn't how things work Dollers. You need to provide an actual method by which it works on a quantum level - you can't expect people to dismiss something you've not even specified.

It's a widely held belief because it's the reality of the situation. It's once again on you to prove that homeopathy offers something above placebo.

SB

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:10 - Jan 17 with 2111 viewsBrixtonBlue

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 13:03 - Jan 17 by sparks

Oh good grief. Just watch any debate between deepak chopra and anyone with basic knowledge of science. Stop buying into the woo.


For someone normally so eloquent, you've failed to answer anything about my quantum physics theory.

In fact you've gone for a logical fallacy, something you normally hate.

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:26 - Jan 17 with 2094 viewsBrixtonBlue

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 13:26 - Jan 17 by StokieBlue

You've answered your own question in your first line.

It doesn't work for anyone other than placebo. In reality the homeopathy aspect it irrelevant.

We can do quantum physics if you like but your examples aren't correct. They don't fly in the face of science, in fact science discovered them in the 1920's. There is some debate about quantum entanglement and teleportation isn't what you are thinking. They destroy a particle in one location and then impart the information it had onto another one at a different location. It's not beam me up Scotty.

Particles (it's not molecules) don't only work in a certain way when observed. Until they are observed they exists in a state of quantum superposition which means their values can be all possible values and then when they are observed they focus to a single value. It's how quantum computers work and why they should be able to do problems that traditional computers can't really solve.

I think to invoke quantum theory as a method of possible explanation for something that simply doesn't work is stretching things quite a bit, especially as it's not actually provided an explanation and it won't - because homeopathy itself doesn't work.

SB


Thanks for clarifying the bits I got wrong. I guess what I'm getting at is that there are things we don't fully understand and so we can't just rule stuff out because science says so. It's been wrong so many times in the past.

There might be something in homeopathy but we can't investigate it - so while it works for lots of people in reality, it doesn't work under test conditions in a lab.

This is not me saying it does work - it's just that you and Bully flatly refuse anything that's against what science currently understands. I've just read a book (Psychedelic Apes by Alex Bosse) that mentions lots of theories the scientific community scorned and ridiculed at the time, which have since been proven to be true.

I just think, yeah, get angry at stuff that harms or defrauds people, but don't just angrily dismiss everything that science says you should. Keep an open mind. They might be wrong.

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
Poll: If you work in an office, when are you off over Christmas (not booked holiday)?

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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:39 - Jan 17 with 2076 viewsBlueBadger

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:26 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

Thanks for clarifying the bits I got wrong. I guess what I'm getting at is that there are things we don't fully understand and so we can't just rule stuff out because science says so. It's been wrong so many times in the past.

There might be something in homeopathy but we can't investigate it - so while it works for lots of people in reality, it doesn't work under test conditions in a lab.

This is not me saying it does work - it's just that you and Bully flatly refuse anything that's against what science currently understands. I've just read a book (Psychedelic Apes by Alex Bosse) that mentions lots of theories the scientific community scorned and ridiculed at the time, which have since been proven to be true.

I just think, yeah, get angry at stuff that harms or defrauds people, but don't just angrily dismiss everything that science says you should. Keep an open mind. They might be wrong.


There really is NOTHING in homeopathy. It's minute amounts of flowers dissolved in gallons of water. The only thing it's vaguely good for is mild dehydration.
There's literally decades of evidence to say it's worthless.

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:40 - Jan 17 with 2074 viewsStokieBlue

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:26 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

Thanks for clarifying the bits I got wrong. I guess what I'm getting at is that there are things we don't fully understand and so we can't just rule stuff out because science says so. It's been wrong so many times in the past.

There might be something in homeopathy but we can't investigate it - so while it works for lots of people in reality, it doesn't work under test conditions in a lab.

This is not me saying it does work - it's just that you and Bully flatly refuse anything that's against what science currently understands. I've just read a book (Psychedelic Apes by Alex Bosse) that mentions lots of theories the scientific community scorned and ridiculed at the time, which have since been proven to be true.

I just think, yeah, get angry at stuff that harms or defrauds people, but don't just angrily dismiss everything that science says you should. Keep an open mind. They might be wrong.


"There might be something in homeopathy but we can't investigate it - so while it works for lots of people in reality, it doesn't work under test conditions in a lab."

It don't believe it works for anybody over placebo. Numerous posters have said this, countless studies have proven it, yet every time you insist it works for lots of people. It's water - there is nothing in it except for water so it can't work. It's not about what science understands, it's about the realities of science which we do understand well in this case. Water doesn't have the properties which are ascribed to it through homeopathy.

Can you please provide your evidence for this assertion that it works for people in reality above placebo as you repeat it all the time but I don't believe it's supported by the evidence.

SB

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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:49 - Jan 17 with 2058 viewseireblue

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:26 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

Thanks for clarifying the bits I got wrong. I guess what I'm getting at is that there are things we don't fully understand and so we can't just rule stuff out because science says so. It's been wrong so many times in the past.

There might be something in homeopathy but we can't investigate it - so while it works for lots of people in reality, it doesn't work under test conditions in a lab.

This is not me saying it does work - it's just that you and Bully flatly refuse anything that's against what science currently understands. I've just read a book (Psychedelic Apes by Alex Bosse) that mentions lots of theories the scientific community scorned and ridiculed at the time, which have since been proven to be true.

I just think, yeah, get angry at stuff that harms or defrauds people, but don't just angrily dismiss everything that science says you should. Keep an open mind. They might be wrong.


What I think you are looking for is something like

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_biology

However, what you cannot simply do is think, well here is one mysterious thing I don’t understand, and here is another mysterious thing I don’t understand, aha, maybe they are related.

Medical investigation do not just happen in labs. Medical investigations measure results.

If I gave you a 10 pound note, and suggested you bought a bunch of sweets, you would get a certain result.
Now, if I give you 10 golden like nuggets (pound coins), you would get the same amount of sweets.

There is no special relationship between paper/nugget and the number of sweets you get.

Paper/nugget = placebo/Homeopathy

The difference is in the real world someone is selling Homeopathy, and charging more than a placebo.

E.g. 10 nuggets costs you 20 pounds so that you can but the same sweets.

The science community does try and investigate the relationship between physics and biology.

Homeopaths, sell stuff.

It is always worth bearing in mind the theory of homeopathy and the theory of vaccinations were both started at the same sort of time. One of those theories that some people investigated, has resulted in millions of lives being saved, the other theory has not.
4
The Goop Lab on Netflix on 15:41 - Jan 17 with 2031 viewsOldsmoker

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:26 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

Thanks for clarifying the bits I got wrong. I guess what I'm getting at is that there are things we don't fully understand and so we can't just rule stuff out because science says so. It's been wrong so many times in the past.

There might be something in homeopathy but we can't investigate it - so while it works for lots of people in reality, it doesn't work under test conditions in a lab.

This is not me saying it does work - it's just that you and Bully flatly refuse anything that's against what science currently understands. I've just read a book (Psychedelic Apes by Alex Bosse) that mentions lots of theories the scientific community scorned and ridiculed at the time, which have since been proven to be true.

I just think, yeah, get angry at stuff that harms or defrauds people, but don't just angrily dismiss everything that science says you should. Keep an open mind. They might be wrong.


I just think, yeah, get angry at stuff that harms or defrauds people, but don't just angrily dismiss everything that science says you should. Keep an open mind. They might be wrong.

Said like a true scientist.

Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 15:49 - Jan 17 with 2027 viewssparks

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:26 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

Thanks for clarifying the bits I got wrong. I guess what I'm getting at is that there are things we don't fully understand and so we can't just rule stuff out because science says so. It's been wrong so many times in the past.

There might be something in homeopathy but we can't investigate it - so while it works for lots of people in reality, it doesn't work under test conditions in a lab.

This is not me saying it does work - it's just that you and Bully flatly refuse anything that's against what science currently understands. I've just read a book (Psychedelic Apes by Alex Bosse) that mentions lots of theories the scientific community scorned and ridiculed at the time, which have since been proven to be true.

I just think, yeah, get angry at stuff that harms or defrauds people, but don't just angrily dismiss everything that science says you should. Keep an open mind. They might be wrong.


As to your 3rd para- you are simply wrong.

Science constantly moves- and "we dont know" is always a valid and reasonable answer.

What isnt valid and reasonable is to proffer crackpot woo theories, based on absolutely no demonstrable facts and then say that they should be considered.

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 16:48 - Jan 17 with 1990 viewsEwan_Oozami

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:26 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

Thanks for clarifying the bits I got wrong. I guess what I'm getting at is that there are things we don't fully understand and so we can't just rule stuff out because science says so. It's been wrong so many times in the past.

There might be something in homeopathy but we can't investigate it - so while it works for lots of people in reality, it doesn't work under test conditions in a lab.

This is not me saying it does work - it's just that you and Bully flatly refuse anything that's against what science currently understands. I've just read a book (Psychedelic Apes by Alex Bosse) that mentions lots of theories the scientific community scorned and ridiculed at the time, which have since been proven to be true.

I just think, yeah, get angry at stuff that harms or defrauds people, but don't just angrily dismiss everything that science says you should. Keep an open mind. They might be wrong.


Think you need to read The Irrational Ape, by David Robert Grimes...

Just one small problem; sell their houses to who, Ben? Fcking Aquaman?
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 17:07 - Jan 17 with 1975 viewsEwan_Oozami

My view on this is as follows:

If homeopathy showed any signs of being effective to any degree, the big drug companies would have had that market totally sewn up by now - because from their point of view, they would get huge returns for virtually no outlay.

The fact that they haven't says volumes, regardless of whether you think science is always right or not, the market is very often more powerful....

Just one small problem; sell their houses to who, Ben? Fcking Aquaman?
Poll: What else could go on top of the cake apart from icing and a cherry?

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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 09:55 - Jan 21 with 1721 viewsBrixtonBlue

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:40 - Jan 17 by StokieBlue

"There might be something in homeopathy but we can't investigate it - so while it works for lots of people in reality, it doesn't work under test conditions in a lab."

It don't believe it works for anybody over placebo. Numerous posters have said this, countless studies have proven it, yet every time you insist it works for lots of people. It's water - there is nothing in it except for water so it can't work. It's not about what science understands, it's about the realities of science which we do understand well in this case. Water doesn't have the properties which are ascribed to it through homeopathy.

Can you please provide your evidence for this assertion that it works for people in reality above placebo as you repeat it all the time but I don't believe it's supported by the evidence.

SB


You say "numerous posters have said this" - numerous posters have also said homeopathy works for them. It even works for Ryorry's dog!

Repeating "there is nothing in it except for water" doesn't help anyone. We know what the official line is. The belief is that there is a tiny amount of the beneficial substances in it - which is why I considered perhaps it's something working at a quantum level (and the fact that quantum level stuff is so bizarre and doesn't work the same way as 'regular' science).

I know homeopathy catarrh tablets work for me and I don't believe it's placebo (because I've tried everything - why would something prescribed by a doctor not work via placebo? Why these particular tablets?!)

Then again, assuming it IS just placebo, why does placebo work? Is placebo something that works at a quantum level? Could willing improvement cause improvement to happen at a very tiny level? Could this link to studies that show prayer to work - it's the will of the people praying, rather than any divine intervention, and it causes changes at a molecular level?

As I've said, many theories were ridiculed by the majority of the scientific community originally. I've just read a book full of them. So it seems awfully short-sighted and failing to learn from history to just flatly say "no, it doesn't work" when there's lost of anecdotal evidence it does.

I bet if we'd discussed teleportation on here a few years ago you and Bully would've dismissed it as science fiction. It now exists, because some people kept an open mind on the idea.

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 09:57 - Jan 21 with 1715 viewsBrixtonBlue

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:49 - Jan 17 by eireblue

What I think you are looking for is something like

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_biology

However, what you cannot simply do is think, well here is one mysterious thing I don’t understand, and here is another mysterious thing I don’t understand, aha, maybe they are related.

Medical investigation do not just happen in labs. Medical investigations measure results.

If I gave you a 10 pound note, and suggested you bought a bunch of sweets, you would get a certain result.
Now, if I give you 10 golden like nuggets (pound coins), you would get the same amount of sweets.

There is no special relationship between paper/nugget and the number of sweets you get.

Paper/nugget = placebo/Homeopathy

The difference is in the real world someone is selling Homeopathy, and charging more than a placebo.

E.g. 10 nuggets costs you 20 pounds so that you can but the same sweets.

The science community does try and investigate the relationship between physics and biology.

Homeopaths, sell stuff.

It is always worth bearing in mind the theory of homeopathy and the theory of vaccinations were both started at the same sort of time. One of those theories that some people investigated, has resulted in millions of lives being saved, the other theory has not.


Good answer, this.

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 10:00 - Jan 21 with 1707 viewsBrixtonBlue

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 15:49 - Jan 17 by sparks

As to your 3rd para- you are simply wrong.

Science constantly moves- and "we dont know" is always a valid and reasonable answer.

What isnt valid and reasonable is to proffer crackpot woo theories, based on absolutely no demonstrable facts and then say that they should be considered.


There are many theories that are "crackpot woo theories" to begin with which are subsequently - sometimes hundreds of years later - proven to be correct. How do you say which ones should be considered and which ones discarded?

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 10:03 - Jan 21 with 1703 viewsBrixtonBlue

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 17:07 - Jan 17 by Ewan_Oozami

My view on this is as follows:

If homeopathy showed any signs of being effective to any degree, the big drug companies would have had that market totally sewn up by now - because from their point of view, they would get huge returns for virtually no outlay.

The fact that they haven't says volumes, regardless of whether you think science is always right or not, the market is very often more powerful....


This is another excellent answer.

I guess if homeopathy doesn't work in a regular scientific way then it would be hard for big drug companies to do anything more with it that than the "woo" companies are already doing. big drug companies make billions more than homeopathic ones, so why would they bother?

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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Sorry Jerseys, this is just wrong on 10:13 - Jan 21 with 1695 viewsDyland

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:26 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

Thanks for clarifying the bits I got wrong. I guess what I'm getting at is that there are things we don't fully understand and so we can't just rule stuff out because science says so. It's been wrong so many times in the past.

There might be something in homeopathy but we can't investigate it - so while it works for lots of people in reality, it doesn't work under test conditions in a lab.

This is not me saying it does work - it's just that you and Bully flatly refuse anything that's against what science currently understands. I've just read a book (Psychedelic Apes by Alex Bosse) that mentions lots of theories the scientific community scorned and ridiculed at the time, which have since been proven to be true.

I just think, yeah, get angry at stuff that harms or defrauds people, but don't just angrily dismiss everything that science says you should. Keep an open mind. They might be wrong.


"There might be something in homeopathy but we can't investigate it - so while it works for lots of people in reality, it doesn't work under test conditions in a lab."

Homeopathy doesn't work (any better than placebo) in double blind clinical trials on real people. There has been a lot of research into this, not just "under test conditions in a lab".

An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. True. However, homeopathy has been researched to the hilt and the evidence is quite clear. It works no better than a sugar pill, i.e. it works (where it does for some people) through placebo.

The placebo effect is beyond interesting to me, and plenty of people across a wide spectrum are studying it. It seems also there's no need to explain its effect with pseudoscience, like homeopathy, amazingly it works (with certain conditions) even when the patient is told it's a placebo. How the doctor/healer/etc. treats the patient is possibly important, but there's possibly something else at work yet to be discovered.

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"Is placebo something that works at a quantum level?" on 10:15 - Jan 21 with 1684 viewsDyland

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 09:55 - Jan 21 by BrixtonBlue

You say "numerous posters have said this" - numerous posters have also said homeopathy works for them. It even works for Ryorry's dog!

Repeating "there is nothing in it except for water" doesn't help anyone. We know what the official line is. The belief is that there is a tiny amount of the beneficial substances in it - which is why I considered perhaps it's something working at a quantum level (and the fact that quantum level stuff is so bizarre and doesn't work the same way as 'regular' science).

I know homeopathy catarrh tablets work for me and I don't believe it's placebo (because I've tried everything - why would something prescribed by a doctor not work via placebo? Why these particular tablets?!)

Then again, assuming it IS just placebo, why does placebo work? Is placebo something that works at a quantum level? Could willing improvement cause improvement to happen at a very tiny level? Could this link to studies that show prayer to work - it's the will of the people praying, rather than any divine intervention, and it causes changes at a molecular level?

As I've said, many theories were ridiculed by the majority of the scientific community originally. I've just read a book full of them. So it seems awfully short-sighted and failing to learn from history to just flatly say "no, it doesn't work" when there's lost of anecdotal evidence it does.

I bet if we'd discussed teleportation on here a few years ago you and Bully would've dismissed it as science fiction. It now exists, because some people kept an open mind on the idea.


No, it's magic ;)

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The Goop Lab on Netflix on 10:17 - Jan 21 with 1681 viewsDyland

The Goop Lab on Netflix on 14:10 - Jan 17 by BrixtonBlue

For someone normally so eloquent, you've failed to answer anything about my quantum physics theory.

In fact you've gone for a logical fallacy, something you normally hate.


Your quantum physics theory is a logical fallacy.

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