| The world is broken 08:23 - Jan 20 with 2837 views | Herbivore |
And that level of inequality is continuing to grow. I know it's a very unsophisticated statistic but it's still utterly ridiculous. |  |
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| The world is broken on 09:08 - Jan 20 with 2751 views | factual_blue |
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| The world is broken on 09:17 - Jan 20 with 2725 views | Herbivore |
People get really upset at the 'witch hunt' against the super rich because I think they feel that the super rich are basically hard working people that have done well for themselves and aren't that removed from you or I. If we hit the billionaires hard they think it'll be those earning £100k a year next. I don't think those people realise just how much money £1bn is, let alone multiple billions. You could confiscate 90% of their wealth in a stroke and they'd still be rich beyond your wildest dreams. | |
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| The world is broken on 09:22 - Jan 20 with 2707 views | BackToRussia |
That seems fair to me. - a capitalist. |  |
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| The world is broken on 09:31 - Jan 20 with 2684 views | Darth_Koont |
| The world is broken on 09:17 - Jan 20 by Herbivore |
People get really upset at the 'witch hunt' against the super rich because I think they feel that the super rich are basically hard working people that have done well for themselves and aren't that removed from you or I. If we hit the billionaires hard they think it'll be those earning £100k a year next. I don't think those people realise just how much money £1bn is, let alone multiple billions. You could confiscate 90% of their wealth in a stroke and they'd still be rich beyond your wildest dreams. |
Do people see billionaires as giving them hope that they too will be lavishly rewarded because they also work hard?
I'd suggest it's actually the complete opposite given it appears to show that creating enormous wealth from scratch is a statistical lottery. And still massively, massively favours people who were born into it.
It's taken a while to be taken on board by economists - and still take some time to be taken on board by the general public who have been sold the dream - but I'm sure the conversation is changing based on the work of Pinketty and others who study wealth, health and happiness. We now know that money doesn't buy happiness and that income inequality isn't a good thing, don't we? |  |
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| The world is broken on 09:32 - Jan 20 with 2675 views | Herbivore |
| The world is broken on 09:22 - Jan 20 by BackToRussia |
That seems fair to me. - a capitalist. |
Stop being jealous a hating on the wealth creators.
- A Mug | |
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| The world is broken on 09:38 - Jan 20 with 2655 views | HARRY10 |
| The world is broken on 09:32 - Jan 20 by Herbivore |
Stop being jealous a hating on the wealth creators.
- A Mug |
in case any of the gormless forelock tuggers are unsure of their place in the grand scheme of things, many are probably around three pay cheques away from being homeless....none a three pay cheques away from being a millionaire |  | | |
| The world is broken on 09:49 - Jan 20 with 2640 views | StokieBlue |
The wealth divide is certainly something which needs to be addressed but it's difficult to know how to go about it. Certainly an unavoidable tax would be excellent but it needs to be bulletproof.
At least some billionaires like Gates and Buffet are giving nearly all their money to charity but it's still not much in the grand scheme of things. Nobody really needs 1bn let along 150bn so something needs to happen.
On a slight tangent the richest person to ever live was a little known King of Mali who had approximately double Bezos current fortune. This podcast is pretty good on a little known king:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/432wNqQMzFmn5Cxwhnx3WPW/meet-the-riche
SB |  |
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| The world is broken on 10:10 - Jan 20 with 2605 views | Herbivore |
| The world is broken on 09:49 - Jan 20 by StokieBlue |
The wealth divide is certainly something which needs to be addressed but it's difficult to know how to go about it. Certainly an unavoidable tax would be excellent but it needs to be bulletproof.
At least some billionaires like Gates and Buffet are giving nearly all their money to charity but it's still not much in the grand scheme of things. Nobody really needs 1bn let along 150bn so something needs to happen.
On a slight tangent the richest person to ever live was a little known King of Mali who had approximately double Bezos current fortune. This podcast is pretty good on a little known king:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/432wNqQMzFmn5Cxwhnx3WPW/meet-the-riche
SB |
Whilst it's good that the likes of Gates give away their wealth, it also means what they give away offsets their tax bill so rather than their money being used to finance things the government have deemed public goods they can choose instead to give it to whatever projects they deem worthy. It's still problematic, albeit philanthropy is better than simply hoarding more wealth.
I think there needs to be a range of measures to equalise society. Certainly very heavy taxation on the 0.001% of super, super wealthy individuals would help boost the public coffers. There also needs to be an incentive for companies to behave responsibly to people other than shareholders. It's mad that there are laws (in the US at least, not sure about here) in relation to fiduciary duty to shareholders on the one hand, whilst on the other hand employees - who are the real wealth creators - can find their pension pots plundered by unscrupulous bosses in struggling businesses. It's mad thag Bezos coins billions each year whilst paying people a non-living wage that governments ultimately end up subsidising.
We need to have more worker involvement and stake holding in big companies, workers on the board, a percentage of the company being owned by workers. All of this could easily be made law. Close loopholes around global businesses shifting profits to avoid tax. Incentivise the creation of cooperatives where workers share more equally in success. There's lots that could be done but there's no will to do it since those in power are more closely aligned with the elite than they are with the average person. | |
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| The world is broken on 12:46 - Jan 20 with 2480 views | Guthrum |
That's the problem. It's an incredibly unsophisticated, indeed blunt, statistic.
In 2018, nearly half the world's population were living on less per day than the price of a pint of beer in the UK: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2018/10/17/nearly-half-the-world . However, given the much lower cost of living (and, indeed, widespread non-cash economies, e.g. subsistence farming) they can afford to.
The majority of those 26 people live and operate in highly developed economies, where the ratio between their wealth and that of the regional population is much lower.
I would guarantee that almost every individual member of TWTD has funds and assets equal to that owned by many millions of the world's poorest put together. |  |
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| The world is broken on 12:48 - Jan 20 with 2471 views | itfcjoe |
| The world is broken on 12:46 - Jan 20 by Guthrum |
That's the problem. It's an incredibly unsophisticated, indeed blunt, statistic.
In 2018, nearly half the world's population were living on less per day than the price of a pint of beer in the UK: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2018/10/17/nearly-half-the-world . However, given the much lower cost of living (and, indeed, widespread non-cash economies, e.g. subsistence farming) they can afford to.
The majority of those 26 people live and operate in highly developed economies, where the ratio between their wealth and that of the regional population is much lower.
I would guarantee that almost every individual member of TWTD has funds and assets equal to that owned by many millions of the world's poorest put together. |
I'd guess there may be a number of posters who live in debt so wouldn't! But agree with the broad point |  |
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| The world is broken on 12:50 - Jan 20 with 2452 views | Herbivore |
That same article says the statistic in 2016 was circa 60 wealthiest people having the same as half the world's population, so things are much worse than 2016 or much better than 2017 depending on how you wish to spin it. The truth is that these things aren't exactly easy to measure so there will be significant variation depending on how they're measured. Rather than quibbling over that surely it would be better to focus on the grotesque levels of inequality instead?
Edit - this more recent article says the gap IS growing by the way: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/21/world-26-richest-people-own-as- [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 12:57]
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| The world is broken on 12:55 - Jan 20 with 2436 views | Guthrum |
| The world is broken on 12:48 - Jan 20 by itfcjoe |
I'd guess there may be a number of posters who live in debt so wouldn't! But agree with the broad point |
A lot of the world's poorest live in debt, too, albeit on a smaller individual scale. To landlords, tax collectors, farm suppliers and/or local strongmen.
As do a number of the super-wealthy, if you look at the actual finances of the companies they own. | |
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| The world is broken on 17:28 - Jan 20 with 2295 views | factual_blue |
| The world is broken on 09:17 - Jan 20 by Herbivore |
People get really upset at the 'witch hunt' against the super rich because I think they feel that the super rich are basically hard working people that have done well for themselves and aren't that removed from you or I. If we hit the billionaires hard they think it'll be those earning £100k a year next. I don't think those people realise just how much money £1bn is, let alone multiple billions. You could confiscate 90% of their wealth in a stroke and they'd still be rich beyond your wildest dreams. |
See also that mad bloke during the election campaign, who thought his £80k a year was less than all doctors and all solicitors earn, and barely put him in the top 50% of earners.
He flatly refused to believe the truth, which was that he was well and truly in the top 5% (which starts at around £73k IIRC). | |
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| The world is broken on 17:42 - Jan 20 with 2262 views | Herbivore |
| The world is broken on 17:28 - Jan 20 by factual_blue |
See also that mad bloke during the election campaign, who thought his £80k a year was less than all doctors and all solicitors earn, and barely put him in the top 50% of earners.
He flatly refused to believe the truth, which was that he was well and truly in the top 5% (which starts at around £73k IIRC). |
I think people just generally have a very limited ability pto think about and grasp the bigger picture. That's why that guy, who probably sees himself as a fairly normal guy, couldn't grasp the demonstrable fact that he is in the top 5% of earners. It's why people don't care about wealth inequality as long as they're doing alright, they bizarrely see themselves more in the billionaires and worry about paying more tax rather than recognising that actually society as a whole might benefit from wealth not being concentrated in so few hands. That's one of the reasons we constantly have to suffer a Tory government. | |
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| The world is broken on 18:27 - Jan 20 with 2181 views | Oxford_Blue |
Not really.
Compare it to other times in the past - when the majority have been poor and destitute. Now, to be born in a western democratic country is to be born at a great time. Health and welfare is excellent and the state looks after you. Life expectancy high. | | | |
| The world is broken on 18:29 - Jan 20 with 2175 views | Herbivore |
| The world is broken on 18:27 - Jan 20 by Oxford_Blue |
Not really.
Compare it to other times in the past - when the majority have been poor and destitute. Now, to be born in a western democratic country is to be born at a great time. Health and welfare is excellent and the state looks after you. Life expectancy high. |
Keep telling yourself that, sweetie. | |
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| The world is broken on 18:42 - Jan 20 with 2160 views | bazgammon |
give it a rest. life isn't fair. Capitalism creates wealth and productivity. Its not perfect but its better than socialism which kills aspiration, promotes victimhood and laziness. if you are so upset try living in North Korea, everyone is equal there aren't they? | |
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| The world is broken on 18:45 - Jan 20 with 2150 views | Darth_Koont |
| The world is broken on 18:27 - Jan 20 by Oxford_Blue |
Not really.
Compare it to other times in the past - when the majority have been poor and destitute. Now, to be born in a western democratic country is to be born at a great time. Health and welfare is excellent and the state looks after you. Life expectancy high. |
Things are better, yes. But people seem to be forgetting that spreading the benefits more fairly was part of that process.
So we should do what we've been doing but faster, now that we know that's what progress (greater health, wealth and happiness) demands.
There's also a big argument that our current distribution of wealth isn't all that good for increasing innovation and productivity, which is the engine of our future prosperity. | |
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| The world is broken on 18:45 - Jan 20 with 2148 views | Darth_Koont |
| The world is broken on 18:42 - Jan 20 by bazgammon |
give it a rest. life isn't fair. Capitalism creates wealth and productivity. Its not perfect but its better than socialism which kills aspiration, promotes victimhood and laziness. if you are so upset try living in North Korea, everyone is equal there aren't they? |
Spoken like a true idiot. | |
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| The world is broken on 18:46 - Jan 20 with 2147 views | Herbivore |
| The world is broken on 18:42 - Jan 20 by bazgammon |
give it a rest. life isn't fair. Capitalism creates wealth and productivity. Its not perfect but its better than socialism which kills aspiration, promotes victimhood and laziness. if you are so upset try living in North Korea, everyone is equal there aren't they? |
If you have nothing to add to the debate, gammon, then just keep off the thread. | |
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