Forum | So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party by Enigma_Blue

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party 21:07 - Apr 11 with 8978 views

Has appointed Naz Shah as Shadow Minister for Community Cohesion. The same Naz Shah who was stripped of the parliamentary whip and suspended for 3 months for posting antisemitic comments on FB and Tweets.

I hope this isn't going to be a sign of things to come from Starmer.

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:27 - Apr 12 with 1529 views

lowhouseblue

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:21 - Apr 12 by Darth_Koont
Thanks for the downvote, Lowers. Always gives me the confirmation I need. The problem when you play fast and loose with the facts for short-term gain is that these facts always come back to bite you in the @rse. Are you starting to realise that or is this where you try to double down?

you have anti-semitism denial tourette's - seek help.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

-1

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:32 - Apr 12 with 1523 views

Darth_Koont

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:27 - Apr 12 by lowhouseblue
you have anti-semitism denial tourette's - seek help.

You're a liar and a schemer. No help available, I'm sorry.

Pronouns: He/Him

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:39 - Apr 12 with 1499 views

jimmyvet

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:32 - Apr 12 by Darth_Koont
You're a liar and a schemer. No help available, I'm sorry.

DK seriously even on this forum which has many left leaning individuals you are so way out on your own on your sheer blindness and dumbness to this terrible form of racism I really feel sorry for you. I don’t think your a bad chap at all but your denial of the disgusting and vile rise of AS is beyond comprehension. Please just stop and take a look at yourself.

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:44 - Apr 12 with 1492 views

Darth_Koont

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:39 - Apr 12 by jimmyvet
DK seriously even on this forum which has many left leaning individuals you are so way out on your own on your sheer blindness and dumbness to this terrible form of racism I really feel sorry for you. I don’t think your a bad chap at all but your denial of the disgusting and vile rise of AS is beyond comprehension. Please just stop and take a look at yourself.

No, I'm a committed anti-racist. Which is why I take offence at other committed anti-racists being targeted by a vicious smear campaign.

I understand why you're rattled by facts emerging.

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:51 - Apr 12 with 1467 views

tractordownsouth

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:23 - Apr 12 by Darth_Koont
You're being a bit silly. Don't lose yourself to the factionalism. Find the objective facts and stick to them.

It's not to do with factionalism - sure, I'm not on the left of the Labour party but there's plenty of figures I respect as they're not defending racists... Dennis Skinner and Angela Rayner are among them, for example.

This article on Williamson is very interesting. Seems to think he became involved in fringe politics and formed dodgy opinions after he first lost his seat in 2015...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/01/chris-williamson-labour-mp-anti

Edit: I don't disagree with Williamson and Galloway on things like austerity, it's their views on this issue which I have issues with

[Post edited 12 Apr 2020 19:53]

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:59 - Apr 12 with 1458 views

Darth_Koont

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:51 - Apr 12 by tractordownsouth

[Post edited 12 Apr 2020 19:53]

Oh FFS. Take a step back before it's too late.

I'm not naive enough to think that Chris Williamson doesn't have his own narrative. But this is just the same stuff coming from his opponents.

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 20:41 - Apr 12 with 1431 views

tractordownsouth

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:59 - Apr 12 by Darth_Koont
Oh FFS. Take a step back before it's too late. I'm not naive enough to think that Chris Williamson doesn't have his own narrative. But this is just the same stuff coming from his opponents.

Agree to disagree

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 20:52 - Apr 12 with 1419 views

pistonbroke

Don’t you think that at the moment it is not time for party politics , the tories as much as I hate them have cut the nhs to ruins , but at the moment it is no time for politics , everyone on all sides of the political spectrum has to pull together

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 21:27 - Apr 12 with 1409 views

GlasgowBlue

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:51 - Apr 12 by tractordownsouth

[Post edited 12 Apr 2020 19:53]

This looks like it’s going to cause Labour a lot of issues.

And the people behind it have left it all for Kier Starmer to deal with.

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 22:10 - Apr 12 with 1391 views

Enigma_Blue

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 20:52 - Apr 12 by pistonbroke
Don’t you think that at the moment it is not time for party politics , the tories as much as I hate them have cut the nhs to ruins , but at the moment it is no time for politics , everyone on all sides of the political spectrum has to pull together

I don't do party politics. I am neither a fan of The Tories or the Labour party. I do believe that a good opposition can help keep the government on the straight & narrow.

It's not just the antisemitic retweets by Shah she also retweeted a post saying that all the victims of the Rotherham grooming scandal should shut their mouths for the sake of diversity. Starmer appointing her as Shadow minister of Community Cohesion is a mistake imho i am hoping he doesn't make too many more.

[Post edited 12 Apr 2020 22:40]

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 00:03 - Apr 13 with 1358 views

Darth_Koont

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 21:27 - Apr 12 by GlasgowBlue
This looks like it’s going to cause Labour a lot of issues. And the people behind it have left it all for Kier Starmer to deal with.

There's more evidence in here than thousands of the antisemitism accusations. Enjoy!

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 00:07 - Apr 13 with 1350 views

Darth_Koont

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 20:41 - Apr 12 by tractordownsouth
Agree to disagree

If we're just dealing in opinions rather than objective facts, that's what we'll have to do.

Just don't get interested in politics for politics' sake. It *should* be about more than that.

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 00:31 - Apr 13 with 1331 views

Clapham_Junction

Some interesting comments from Andy Burnham, which suggest the idea that party officials were opposed to (moderate) left-wing ideas and undermined people they were opposed to isn't a Corbynista conspiracy. The PLP doesn't come out of it looking great either.

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 00:43 - Apr 13 with 1316 views

jeera

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 19:39 - Apr 12 by jimmyvet
DK seriously even on this forum which has many left leaning individuals you are so way out on your own on your sheer blindness and dumbness to this terrible form of racism I really feel sorry for you. I don’t think your a bad chap at all but your denial of the disgusting and vile rise of AS is beyond comprehension. Please just stop and take a look at yourself.

If you listen to the man he has made the same point continuously.

No one, including DK, has denied there has been an element of AS within some party members.

To excitedly leap on that at every opportunity without listening to what the man says is to be disingenuous yourself.

That you or anyone chooses to see it everywhere is no reflection on those who do not.

There are plenty of people out there with the same viewpoint who are not AS either.

My family are Jewish on my [late] father's side so you can call me what you like.

That doesn't affect me.

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 07:55 - Apr 13 with 1268 views

GlasgowBlue

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 00:03 - Apr 13 by Darth_Koont
There's more evidence in here than thousands of the antisemitism accusations. Enjoy!

Well I for one am completely shocked that Corbyn’s team wrote an 860 page report on their handling of antisemitism absolving Corbyn and blaming the whistleblowers for deliberately creating the situation to undermine Corbyn.

If I was a cynic I’d think these leaks were timed to undermine the EHRC before it finishes its report because they know the book is about to be thrown squarely at them.

Anyway, no wish to dwell on this any longer. I’ve spent a lot of time on the subject over the years. Probably best to wait for the EHRC to report.

[Post edited 13 Apr 2020 8:09]

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 08:26 - Apr 13 with 1254 views

C_HealyIsAPleasure

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 12:46 - Apr 12 by Darth_Koont

But seats can be more or less random and dependent on other factors, not least the MP candidates or how close the race is.

The global vote share is at least measurable. And the idea that Corbyn took Labour backwards after 2005, 2010 and 2015 is laughable. Focusing on policy rather than empty centrist party politics brought Labour into the 21st Century.

Starmer at least seems to be suggesting that this policy platform should stay if Labour are to remain relevant.

Except that global vote share also ignores other factors like the incompetency of the opposition and their long spell as a government of austerity, or indeed a shift to even more of a two party system (and associated push in some quarters to vote tactically) which has also seen said incompetent long term government increase their vote share since 2010

Imagine thinking that a Labour leader that allowed one of the worst sitting governments in memory to wins a majority with a size of margin not seen by their party since the 50’s didn’t take the party backwards...

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 08:27 - Apr 13 with 1254 views

C_HealyIsAPleasure

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 13:57 - Apr 12 by Darth_Koont

Of course Labour went backwards. It totally lost Scotland because it wasn't addressing real concerns but playing a party political game at that stage.

Labour became irrelevant in real terms when it stopped addressing the disillusioned and disenfranchised in favour of meaningless party politicking. And they totally paved the way for the wolf in sheep's clothing that was Cameron with the Tory right always ready to start pulling the strings.

When politics stops representing people and ideas (especially on the left) then it's not just a waste of time. It's actually doing long-term harm.

Incredible reading the first sentence of your middle paragraph, and the realise you’re talking about the government that one 3 consecutive large majorities rather than the one that was absolutely destroyed at the ballot box

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 08:44 - Apr 13 with 1244 views

Darth_Koont

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 08:27 - Apr 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure
Incredible reading the first sentence of your middle paragraph, and the realise you’re talking about the government that one 3 consecutive large majorities rather than the one that was absolutely destroyed at the ballot box

It won three elections because it started appealing to middle class, middle England. But are you telling me that they didn't lose Scotland to the SNP along the way? Or latterly the working class to right-wing populism?

A centre-left party that loses those it's meant to be fighting for doesn't deserve to win elections after that.

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 08:56 - Apr 13 with 1236 views

Darth_Koont

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 07:55 - Apr 13 by GlasgowBlue

[Post edited 13 Apr 2020 8:09]

This was known about long ago. But you and others ignored it.

I understand why you want this to go away. It attempts to expose the lies and set the record straight which is never helpful in a smear campaign.

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 09:14 - Apr 13 with 1218 views

jimmyvet

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 08:56 - Apr 13 by Darth_Koont
This was known about long ago. But you and others ignored it. I understand why you want this to go away. It attempts to expose the lies and set the record straight which is never helpful in a smear campaign.

Can you just imagine a large bank or corporation producing an 860 page reporting blaming the whistleblowers for the issues and not the leadership. To have 1 whistleblower is unusual, to have dozens in the same organisation is beyond comprehension. It’s astonishing the front of these people and like GB says let’s await the outcome of an independent report not a report written for the second time by Corbyn’s mates who were all complicit in the AS stain on the Labour movement.

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 09:20 - Apr 13 with 1212 views

C_HealyIsAPleasure

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 08:44 - Apr 13 by Darth_Koont
It won three elections because it started appealing to middle class, middle England. But are you telling me that they didn't lose Scotland to the SNP along the way? Or latterly the working class to right-wing populism? A centre-left party that loses those it's meant to be fighting for doesn't deserve to win elections after that.

And yet you don’t apply the same logic to a left-leaning Labour Party haemorrhaging votes and indeed seats in Labour heartlands, including some that have been red since the dawn of time

A Blair-led Labour Party never failed to return a sizeable majority, and your focus on their majority declining is overstated given that history shows that any government will begin to struggle once it’s been in power for a prolonged period as the public will naturally start to focus on the negatives and look for something different. Well, all but one anyway...

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 09:28 - Apr 13 with 1203 views

Darth_Koont

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 09:14 - Apr 13 by jimmyvet

Can you imagine many of these people actually ignoring antisemitism because their apparent focus was on weaponising the issue instead? These aren't antiracists .. in fact they attack antiracists.

You and others have ignored the factionalism and have treated the JLM and Labour right as the speakers of truth, despite many of them being highly motivated and partisan actors throughout. And scummy with it.

I hope they have the book thrown at them.

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 09:35 - Apr 13 with 1192 views

Darth_Koont

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 09:20 - Apr 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Labour had ceded too much ground to the populists over decades. The likes of Farage, Robinson and latterly the Tory right exploited the disillusionment and disenfranchisement Labour should have been sorting out rather than exacerbating.

I know it's difficult for you to get your head round this but socialist/social democracy is about proper representation, not just waving a red flag and appealing to the centre. Even if that won elections over 15 years ago.

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 09:52 - Apr 13 with 1170 views

C_HealyIsAPleasure

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 09:35 - Apr 13 by Darth_Koont

And yet Labour ceded far more ground amongst the working classes in the past 10 years than in the 15 years prior, as evidenced by the most recent election result

Also it may be 15 years since appealing to the centre won Labour an election but at least it actually won. Whereas a left-leaning Labour Party has won precisely zero elections since most of the population have been on the planet

I know it’s difficult to get your head around but in order to enact any kind of actual change a party first has to win an election and be in a position to implement their ideas. Which is why a Corbyn-led Labour improved the lives of precisely no-one, despite offering such wonderful representation

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So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 10:04 - Apr 13 with 1156 views

Darth_Koont

So Kier Starmer who vowed to stamp out Anti-Semitism in the Labour party on 09:52 - Apr 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

I think we're at cross-purposes. While in power, a centrist Labour lost Scotland and started to let the Northern heartlands slide away. Now you're saying that they should do what got them elected in the first place - well, what got them elected in the first place was bedrock support from the regions and the working class, topped off with a bit of Murdoch-sanctioned middle-class appeal.

Labour needed to get back to its roots (and its relevance) rather than becoming a new LibDems. Corbyn certainly made inroads in 2017 but it's an uphill struggle when you're fighting the media, half your own party and a frankly @ss-backward definition of "effective opposition" that is actually being defined by your opponents.

We've gone too far to the right as a country for a socialist/social democrat opposition to be playing at centrism. And there's frankly too much structural inequality to ignore.

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