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Hard to see this as scaremongering given successive days of 900+ fatalities and a higher daily fatality rate on our worst day than on the worst days in China, Italy and Spain. Bear in mind that we looked on in horror at what was happening in those countries just a few weeks ago.
Considering it started to hit here later than in the rest of mainland Europe, in theory giving us time to prepare and mitigate, that's pretty scandalous. The inquest will come in some months' time but I struggle to see how anyone can think this has been handled competently.
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 23:52 - Apr 12 by blueconscience
There’s a certain group of posters who do nothing but attack or demean differing points of views, and half the time their “Superior” view or opinion has no more validity than the post they are attacking.
Shame really, this used to be an interesting and friendly forum, but with the know it alls and perfectionists It has gone downhill.
So someone makes something up in order to downplay a pandemic that has claimed over 10,000 lives in this country and had a devastating personal impact on people that post on here.
Healthcare professional who is working his nuts off trying to save these same people tells him to stop talking crap and you think it’s BB that’s the problem with this forum?
That’s a weird take mate.
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UK could be worst hit in Europe on 09:40 - Apr 13 with 1704 views
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 06:38 - Apr 13 by m14_blue
So someone makes something up in order to downplay a pandemic that has claimed over 10,000 lives in this country and had a devastating personal impact on people that post on here.
Healthcare professional who is working his nuts off trying to save these same people tells him to stop talking crap and you think it’s BB that’s the problem with this forum?
That’s a weird take mate.
What have i made up?
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UK could be worst hit in Europe on 09:48 - Apr 13 with 1695 views
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 09:40 - Apr 13 by Bluesquid
What have i made up?
Well BB certainly seems to take issue with your suggestion that deaths are being declared as covid without a doctor seeing them and I’m minded to take his word for it.
Although these deaths wouldn’t be included in the count anyway so not sure what your point was.
In fact, I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make at all, you’re desperate to imply the virus is somehow being over played but even you don’t seem to have a theory as to why, you just have to dispute the official version come what may.
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UK could be worst hit in Europe on 10:10 - Apr 13 with 1684 views
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 09:48 - Apr 13 by m14_blue
Well BB certainly seems to take issue with your suggestion that deaths are being declared as covid without a doctor seeing them and I’m minded to take his word for it.
Although these deaths wouldn’t be included in the count anyway so not sure what your point was.
In fact, I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make at all, you’re desperate to imply the virus is somehow being over played but even you don’t seem to have a theory as to why, you just have to dispute the official version come what may.
"Although these deaths wouldn’t be included in the count anyway so not sure what your point was."
They are included in the ONS count.
This is the official version that i have been following -
"Covid associated deaths, not all as a result of Covid" - 58:41"
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UK could be worst hit in Europe on 10:55 - Apr 13 with 1661 views
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 09:48 - Apr 13 by m14_blue
Well BB certainly seems to take issue with your suggestion that deaths are being declared as covid without a doctor seeing them and I’m minded to take his word for it.
Although these deaths wouldn’t be included in the count anyway so not sure what your point was.
In fact, I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make at all, you’re desperate to imply the virus is somehow being over played but even you don’t seem to have a theory as to why, you just have to dispute the official version come what may.
The endless squabbling over statistics is near pointless. This isn't a league table with a prize at the end. It seems that the government is taking advice from health experts who have access to all sorts of presumably good quality data & it has been announced that they are taking multiple factors into consideration before giving advice. Naturally, the media focus on "headline data", which increases the shock factor.
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 10:10 - Apr 13 by Bluesquid
"Although these deaths wouldn’t be included in the count anyway so not sure what your point was."
They are included in the ONS count.
This is the official version that i have been following -
"Covid associated deaths, not all as a result of Covid" - 58:41"
Do you have a little folder supplied to you with videos and timings?
Because you posted the exact same one with the same quote and timing yesterday. Have you got a definition of what associated means in this context? If not then seems strange to keep pushing the point given the obvious meaning is that C19 was a factor in the death. Given this including it in the count gives a better picture of the toll the virus is taking.
Why do you wish to downplay the death numbers? You've been doing it for over a month now and you've refused to say why.
Just stop beating around the push and state your actual point. You've been asked enough times now.
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 11:54 - Apr 13 by Herbivore
What do you think is the significance of the deaths being associated with Covid-19 rather than the result of?
[Post edited 13 Apr 2020 12:10]
There are other risks for the patient and knowing the correct cause of death is of great significance because it could actually save lives.
A patient associated with C-19 who acquires pneumonia and later dies, not determining the correct cause of death could risk the lives of other patients.
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UK could be worst hit in Europe on 12:16 - Apr 13 with 1594 views
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 12:12 - Apr 13 by Bluesquid
There are other risks for the patient and knowing the correct cause of death is of great significance because it could actually save lives.
A patient associated with C-19 who acquires pneumonia and later dies, not determining the correct cause of death could risk the lives of other patients.
Perhaps this country just has a much greater proportion of morons who couldn't be arsed to do the sensible thing and follow all the advice. Clearly they knew better than the experts and decided to carry on gathering together and travelling on crowded trains and thinking themselves invincible. Even now, these morons are still to be found pissing about in supermarkets and parks. And the government has been slow to react on a number of issues too of course and rightly criticised at times. But let's not absolve a fair proportion of the public from any blame...
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UK could be worst hit in Europe on 12:36 - Apr 13 with 1548 views
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 12:16 - Apr 13 by Herbivore
How so?
Well in that case understanding that it was pneumonia that was the cause of death could lead to an increase in measures which could reduce that risk and thus potentially save lives.
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UK could be worst hit in Europe on 12:58 - Apr 13 with 1532 views
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 12:36 - Apr 13 by Bluesquid
Well in that case understanding that it was pneumonia that was the cause of death could lead to an increase in measures which could reduce that risk and thus potentially save lives.
Pneumonia and associated complications tend to be how Covid-19 gets people. That is already well known. I'm not sure what you think is being missed here.
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 12:58 - Apr 13 by Herbivore
Pneumonia and associated complications tend to be how Covid-19 gets people. That is already well known. I'm not sure what you think is being missed here.
So you can't think of a possible reason why a patient might acquire Pneumonia?
[Post edited 13 Apr 2020 13:26]
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UK could be worst hit in Europe on 13:34 - Apr 13 with 1494 views
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 13:34 - Apr 13 by StokieBlue
He has told you the probable reason - that is C19 as is acknowledged by the medical profession.
Instead of speaking in riddles and innuendo why don't you tell us the reason you think they got pneumonia?
SB
First of all i said 'possible', ok?
"Hospital-acquired pneumonia (HAP) and ventilator-associated pneumonia (VAP) are important causes of morbidity and mortality, with mortality rates approaching 62%."
"Ventilator-associated pneumonia (VAP), a hospital acquired pneumonia that occurs more than 48 h after mechanical ventilation, is a common complication of mechanical ventilation with a high mortality rate."
"Ventilator-associated pneumonia (VAP) continues to be a major problem in the care of intensive care unit (ICU) patients. The incidence of VAP in mechanically ventilated patients is high, ranging from 10 to 30%. The clinical symptoms of VAP are ambiguous and there is no generally accepted gold standard for the diagnosis of VAP. The associated mortality is still high at 30—40%"
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 13:46 - Apr 13 by Bluesquid
First of all i said 'possible', ok?
"Hospital-acquired pneumonia (HAP) and ventilator-associated pneumonia (VAP) are important causes of morbidity and mortality, with mortality rates approaching 62%."
"Ventilator-associated pneumonia (VAP), a hospital acquired pneumonia that occurs more than 48 h after mechanical ventilation, is a common complication of mechanical ventilation with a high mortality rate."
"Ventilator-associated pneumonia (VAP) continues to be a major problem in the care of intensive care unit (ICU) patients. The incidence of VAP in mechanically ventilated patients is high, ranging from 10 to 30%. The clinical symptoms of VAP are ambiguous and there is no generally accepted gold standard for the diagnosis of VAP. The associated mortality is still high at 30—40%"
Not really OK no, because you keep making posts that don't say anything.
You've finally posted what you actually mean though, interesting.
You are going with the theory that use of ventilators is causing the pneumonia rather than C19. Even if that is the case, the cause of requiring ventilation is still C19 so it seems to invalid your previous posts given it's the cause of what you are claiming could be the ultimate cause of death.
Hence the use of "associated" in the quote you love so much.
SB
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UK could be worst hit in Europe on 14:04 - Apr 13 with 1461 views
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 13:52 - Apr 13 by StokieBlue
Not really OK no, because you keep making posts that don't say anything.
You've finally posted what you actually mean though, interesting.
You are going with the theory that use of ventilators is causing the pneumonia rather than C19. Even if that is the case, the cause of requiring ventilation is still C19 so it seems to invalid your previous posts given it's the cause of what you are claiming could be the ultimate cause of death.
Hence the use of "associated" in the quote you love so much.
SB
As I understand it most Covid-19 patients have developed pneumonia by the time they require ventilation. The impact of that on their breathing and lung capacity is the reason they need to be ventilated. I'm not sure what he thinks the solution is here, just let patients continue being unable to breathe because the use of a ventilator carries risks too? I'm really not sure what his point is, other than being contrarian for the sake of it.
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 13:52 - Apr 13 by StokieBlue
Not really OK no, because you keep making posts that don't say anything.
You've finally posted what you actually mean though, interesting.
You are going with the theory that use of ventilators is causing the pneumonia rather than C19. Even if that is the case, the cause of requiring ventilation is still C19 so it seems to invalid your previous posts given it's the cause of what you are claiming could be the ultimate cause of death.
Hence the use of "associated" in the quote you love so much.
SB
"You are going with the theory that use of ventilators is causing the pneumonia rather than C19."
No i am not, no where have i said that. Your just making stuff up, just stop lying.
Highlighting the very real risk does not mean it is the cause of all pneumonia but you will twist anything and then use it to attack.
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UK could be worst hit in Europe on 14:12 - Apr 13 with 1438 views
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 14:08 - Apr 13 by Bluesquid
"You are going with the theory that use of ventilators is causing the pneumonia rather than C19."
No i am not, no where have i said that. Your just making stuff up, just stop lying.
Highlighting the very real risk does not mean it is the cause of all pneumonia but you will twist anything and then use it to attack.
Lying? It's the clear implication of your posts in this thread given the sources in your last post.
All you've done is show that the statement made by the government was correct. As Herbie pointed out, you need the ventilator due to C19 thus it's an associated death and in the figures.
For weeks now you have been trying to downplay the figures.
If anyone is being disingenuous here it's you.
SB
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UK could be worst hit in Europe on 14:13 - Apr 13 with 1436 views
UK could be worst hit in Europe on 14:12 - Apr 13 by StokieBlue
Lying? It's the clear implication of your posts in this thread given the sources in your last post.
All you've done is show that the statement made by the government was correct. As Herbie pointed out, you need the ventilator due to C19 thus it's an associated death and in the figures.
For weeks now you have been trying to downplay the figures.
If anyone is being disingenuous here it's you.
SB
So it's the fingers in the ears tactic for you now then i see.
"So you can't think of a POSSIBLE reason why a patient might acquire Pneumonia? "
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UK could be worst hit in Europe on 14:36 - Apr 13 with 1392 views
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