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First of all, I want to start off by stating that I’m not one for conspiracy theories etc.
I have been reading a lot of reports on social media, some coming from close-to-home real people I know; stating that causes of deaths are being put down as Covid when they haven’t been tested, or shown any signs of this.
Trying to get my head around, in what possible way would this benefit anybody? - I’ve seen online somebody tragically died from a heart attack, but this was reported as a Covid death.
Anyone more clued up on this subject able to completely deny this, or explain any rationale behind it?
Well Patrick Vallance the Government Chief Scientific Adviser has actually stated publicly that "many" on the ONS count have not been tested but they have Covid on their death certificate.
I am not saying that i agree with him but Musk mentions financial incentives in the US to count patients as Covid patients and also the need for "clarity of information" and to "parse out the data".
All positive covid tests will be featured on the death certificate as a part II if for example, the cause of death was a massive heart attack.
In layman's terms, this means 'may be a contributing factor, maybe not' - in the context of heart attack it's potentially a factor given the effects it can have on blood clotting.
[Post edited 11 May 2020 13:17]
BlueBadger you'll probably know the answer to this but a Doctor on LBC this morning said nobody has died from COVID-19 in terms of what appears on the death certificate, but it only appears as contributing factor, as pneumonia is normally the cause of death - does that sound correct?
I am not saying that i agree with him but Musk mentions financial incentives in the US to count patients as Covid patients and also the need for "clarity of information" and to "parse out the data".
I dunno about the states, but as far as I know here the death certificate will list cause of death, underlying cause of death and any contributory causes. If covid-19 appears as any of those it gets counted as a covid death, and that seems to be exactly what technology but not health expert, Elon Musk was asking for.
There are some genuine questions over the validity of figures because of the variability in testing and delays or even lack of trust in reporting.
This means that (despite the fact the Government continues to publicly compare their data and then say it shouldn't be compared), a better measure is excess deaths over the average for the time of year. Of course, there is a certain amount of variability even there and such comparisons should not be made on too small a scale. However, I believe that data paints the UK in a similar light to the data currently used.
I am quite sure if it painted us in a better light, the Government would have switched to using it some time ago.
I am not saying that i agree with him but Musk mentions financial incentives in the US to count patients as Covid patients and also the need for "clarity of information" and to "parse out the data".
"I am not saying I agree with him but" … maybe best not to share it if you disagree unless it is to point out why you disagree.
It does sound rather like someone who might want to get people back to work trying to downplay it.
"I am not saying I agree with him but" … maybe best not to share it if you disagree unless it is to point out why you disagree.
It does sound rather like someone who might want to get people back to work trying to downplay it.
People spreading conspiracy theories on here always like to caveat with, ‘I’m not saying I agree but...’, they never say what they actually mean, just mysteriously hint at stuff that only they can understand.
Wow, Musk and Rogan with what they stated in that discussion wouldn't stand a chance on this forum would they?
Anyone listening to Rogan on anything needs their head examined to be fair.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
People spreading conspiracy theories on here always like to caveat with, ‘I’m not saying I agree but...’, they never say what they actually mean, just mysteriously hint at stuff that only they can understand.
[Post edited 11 May 2020 19:59]
All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing.
Not sure what glandular secretions have to do with it.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
I think it's true that over 20% of the coronavirus deaths figure is of people who haven't tested positive for it, it is assumed they had it by professional opinion. I think this was in mostly care homes where testing wasn't available until recently. I don't see any reason why anyone would want to inflate this figure unneceassarily by including deaths of people with no covid-like symptoms.
This methodology is not used in many other countries, which partly explains why comparing countries and saying we are the worst in Europe is wrong, although it's certainly fair to say we have a high death rate.
I think it's true that over 20% of the coronavirus deaths figure is of people who haven't tested positive for it, it is assumed they had it by professional opinion. I think this was in mostly care homes where testing wasn't available until recently. I don't see any reason why anyone would want to inflate this figure unneceassarily by including deaths of people with no covid-like symptoms.
This methodology is not used in many other countries, which partly explains why comparing countries and saying we are the worst in Europe is wrong, although it's certainly fair to say we have a high death rate.
Yes it may vary from country to country but the WHO guidelines include assumption when recording the cause of death and i assume that many countries are following these guidelines.
I think it's true that over 20% of the coronavirus deaths figure is of people who haven't tested positive for it, it is assumed they had it by professional opinion. I think this was in mostly care homes where testing wasn't available until recently. I don't see any reason why anyone would want to inflate this figure unneceassarily by including deaths of people with no covid-like symptoms.
This methodology is not used in many other countries, which partly explains why comparing countries and saying we are the worst in Europe is wrong, although it's certainly fair to say we have a high death rate.
We're also underreporting our excess deaths though. It's not as if we're being scrupulous with the total number of deaths compared to other countries.
For example, I was reading that Belgium's is so high not just because they were reporting care home deaths from the start but also because they are reporting almost all deaths as C19 unless there's a clear other cause.
BlueBadger you'll probably know the answer to this but a Doctor on LBC this morning said nobody has died from COVID-19 in terms of what appears on the death certificate, but it only appears as contributing factor, as pneumonia is normally the cause of death - does that sound correct?
Cause of death is, strictly speaking 'which vital organ has failed to the point of causing death?' This is what goes on part I of a death certificate.
Part II is 'contributory factors', which will usually be the acute cause of the organ(s) in question failing as well as relevant underlying conditions.
So, your typical covid might read like this, for example:
Part I: Respiratory failure
Part II: Covid-19, asthma, type 2 diabetes
[Post edited 12 May 2020 17:28]
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Cause of death is, strictly speaking 'which vital organ has failed to the point of causing death?' This is what goes on part I of a death certificate.
Part II is 'contributory factors', which will usually be the acute cause of the organ(s) in question failing as well as relevant underlying conditions.
So, your typical covid might read like this, for example:
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