| UK BLM protest images 07:19 - Jun 8 with 10985 views | Libero |
I’m having a look through various photos and videos from the UK protests over the weekend, there’s some really powerful and moving images and unlike most “awareness” campaigns I’m pretty sure this is going to create real change in public mindset as well as tangible change moving forwards for BAME people.
However, I can’t look at the protests in London in particular without feeling a queasy discomfort at the closeness of proximity of so, so, so many people in one place.
I fully support everyone’s right to protest, I’m right behind the movement and I understand why those who are angry are justifiably angry but I am concerned about the potential of a second peak being accelerated by the sheer number of people and the closeness of proximity between them.
It’s a bit difficult for me to square away that anxiety without feeling like I’m being a bit subversive.
Is it reasonable? [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 7:28]
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| UK BLM protest images on 11:05 - Jun 8 with 2809 views | flimflam |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:32 - Jun 8 by Simonds92 |
Are you referring to the incident where the police tried rushing the protesters on horses? As i haven't seen anything else in regard to violence ( i may be wrong). This was originally on social media indicating protesters were throwing things at police, knocking one of them unconscious. This was until a subsequent video showed that during the attempted rush, said police office managed to take themselves out via a traffic light. |
You see what you want to see I guess. |  |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| UK BLM protest images on 11:28 - Jun 8 with 2773 views | StokieBlue |
| UK BLM protest images on 10:08 - Jun 8 by Reuser_is_God |
There have been plenty of videos of violence towards police officers in London ever since the protests started. |
I've just seen a video of a protester climbed upon the Cenotaph attempting to set fire to the flags. Some protesters yelling at him to stop, others yelling at him to burn it.
There is no consensus on the actions being taken, it's individuals acting. The same is true of violence towards the police.
SB |  |
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| UK BLM protest images on 12:07 - Jun 8 with 2723 views | Libero |
| UK BLM protest images on 11:28 - Jun 8 by StokieBlue |
I've just seen a video of a protester climbed upon the Cenotaph attempting to set fire to the flags. Some protesters yelling at him to stop, others yelling at him to burn it.
There is no consensus on the actions being taken, it's individuals acting. The same is true of violence towards the police.
SB |
Exactly, it's important to acknowledge the systemic/systematic issues but you have to have faith that both sides (in the UK at least) are on the whole acting with good intentions, you cannot allow the individuals to detract from the message or intentions of either group. | | | |
| UK BLM protest images on 12:20 - Jun 8 with 2703 views | flimflam |
| UK BLM protest images on 12:07 - Jun 8 by Libero |
Exactly, it's important to acknowledge the systemic/systematic issues but you have to have faith that both sides (in the UK at least) are on the whole acting with good intentions, you cannot allow the individuals to detract from the message or intentions of either group. |
Unfortunately that is exactly what has happened.
The message which has been lost for a lot of people amongst the images of vandalism and rioting and the fact that their lives are still on lockdown but seeing 10s of thousands of people congregating all across the country.
Right message unfortunately the current climate makes it the wrong time to really get the message home. | |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| UK BLM protest images on 12:35 - Jun 8 with 2681 views | Libero |
| UK BLM protest images on 12:20 - Jun 8 by flimflam |
Unfortunately that is exactly what has happened.
The message which has been lost for a lot of people amongst the images of vandalism and rioting and the fact that their lives are still on lockdown but seeing 10s of thousands of people congregating all across the country.
Right message unfortunately the current climate makes it the wrong time to really get the message home. |
Nah, it's really not.
The message has only been diluted for those that refuse to acknowledge/do not understand the wider context,
or those that fail to understand/refuse to acknowledge the weight that is felt by those effected and their allies and the legitimacy of their anger.
Basically the criminal damage element has given sh1tty people a sh1tty reason to be sh1tty about all of the BLM movement, notice how Boris and co are leaning heavily into this narrative?
Thankfully most people can see past their shallow rhetoric and understand that what we're witnessing is a global revolution of sorts and that although there are clear arguments against the use of violence/criminal damage it is understandable that for a proportion of people who have been repressed, subjugated and systemically and systematically held back for generation on generation think that enough is enough.
Most people can also see the trouble makers and opportunists for what they are too, only a limited spread of people are using these factors as a way of belittling the protest and claiming the message has been lost. | | | |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:00 - Jun 8 with 2608 views | Libero |
| UK BLM protest images on 11:05 - Jun 8 by flimflam |
You see what you want to see I guess. |
Indeed... | | | |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:00 - Jun 8 with 2609 views | bluelagos |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:01 - Jun 8 by lowhouseblue |
what is the evidence of current police racism in the uk?
(cos a disproportionate number of black people being arrested, or in prison, or being subject to stop and search etc may well be due to many bad things - structural inequality, age distribution, the nature of where people live - rather than racism by the police). |
Ok, so a quick google shows that 25% of the prison population in UK is BAME, roughly twice the percentage of BAME share of UK population.
So it would be reasonable, if police stop and search targets people based on their likelihood to be serious criminals for the rates to be roughly double for black people than white people. It is 10 times higher.
So I think you are somewhat way off the mark. |  |
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| UK BLM protest images on 14:04 - Jun 8 with 2600 views | 26_Paz |
| UK BLM protest images on 10:31 - Jun 8 by Libero |
While you're going about illustrating your point in a needlessly antagonist and disingenuous manner, you do have somewhat of a point.
I suspect if I had invested my life savings into a business and it was being smashed up I'd most certainly have a more emotional response, regardless the facts would still be the facts and my personal loss would be significantly less than that suffered by generation after generation of BAME people.
One man's freedom fight is another man's terrorist and all that. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 10:38]
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Sorry, I stopped engaging when you called me a 'prat' for no reason whatsoever (I see you've now edited your post, thanks). |  |
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| UK BLM protest images on 14:06 - Jun 8 with 2599 views | Libero |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:04 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
Sorry, I stopped engaging when you called me a 'prat' for no reason whatsoever (I see you've now edited your post, thanks). |
Yeah, apologies for that, it wasn't on and was hypocritical as I'd already pulled you up on being antagonistic.
Insult aside, I think my point stands. | | | |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:35 - Jun 8 with 2558 views | 26_Paz |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:06 - Jun 8 by Libero |
Yeah, apologies for that, it wasn't on and was hypocritical as I'd already pulled you up on being antagonistic.
Insult aside, I think my point stands. |
I take your point and I do get why they're protesting ... I understand its not just about one American policeman killing one guy ...
I just think it could be done in such a better way, the criminal damage is completely unnecessary, violence against UK Police is completely unnecessary ...
Imagine if they'd arranged completely peaceful protests in line with social distancing (and from what I hear I think the Ipswich one was pretty much this), I think that would have highlighted the point much more effectively. The violence and disorder gives people an 'out', a way to easily dismiss it as just agitators causing trouble. | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 14:39 - Jun 8 with 2552 views | Libero |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:35 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
I take your point and I do get why they're protesting ... I understand its not just about one American policeman killing one guy ...
I just think it could be done in such a better way, the criminal damage is completely unnecessary, violence against UK Police is completely unnecessary ...
Imagine if they'd arranged completely peaceful protests in line with social distancing (and from what I hear I think the Ipswich one was pretty much this), I think that would have highlighted the point much more effectively. The violence and disorder gives people an 'out', a way to easily dismiss it as just agitators causing trouble. |
Problem is mate plenty in the U.S did do that and were literally attacked by the Police... | | | |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:43 - Jun 8 with 2542 views | 26_Paz |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:39 - Jun 8 by Libero |
Problem is mate plenty in the U.S did do that and were literally attacked by the Police... |
That's the US though ... not sure why that means people attack the UK police here ...
I think they've actually handled the whole thing very well ... haven't really gone wading in at all | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 14:48 - Jun 8 with 2531 views | Libero |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:43 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
That's the US though ... not sure why that means people attack the UK police here ...
I think they've actually handled the whole thing very well ... haven't really gone wading in at all |
I can't comment on specifics as I've not actually seen any footage of any police being attacked in the UK, I have however seen plenty of footage of UK Police doing things that really aren't on which provoked a response.
America seems to allow a special breed of psychopath in to their police force that maybe we don't, but that's only a small part of the issues at play.
Regardless, US/UK/AUS - it's the same movement with the same purpose, values, thoughts and feelings.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but you sound desperate to reach for a reason to discredit what is justifiable frustration and anger. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 14:50]
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| UK BLM protest images on 14:51 - Jun 8 with 2520 views | Half_Idiot |
| UK BLM protest images on 10:11 - Jun 8 by ITFC_Forever |
Wasn't the one that was taken out by a traffic light because the horse bolted as it was so frightened of what was going on? |
Horses have no place at the protests in the first place. The use of them is purely an intimidation tactic by the police. |  | | |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:52 - Jun 8 with 2517 views | Half_Idiot |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:36 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
The criminal damage bothers me more than the corona breaches in all honesty ... why are they allowed to do this? |
Does the criminal damage bother you more than the prejudices against someone due to the colour of their skin? | | | |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:59 - Jun 8 with 2484 views | Half_Idiot |
| UK BLM protest images on 08:32 - Jun 8 by bluelagos |
Couple of thoughts, I think as the only attender of the BLM protests on here (or the only one willing to admit to it)
Of course the virus is upper mind in people's minds, indeed I saw way more masks being worn at the Ipswich demo than I ever have inside a supermarket. The same applied to the London protesters from what I saw on Tv.
Also, the protests were outside, which is recognised as lower risk. And the number of infected is now around 1 in a 1000 (latest figures) so while clear breaches of social distancing happened, I think it was collectively way less than say happened in national branches of supermarkets this weekend. That is not to say there is no risk of spread, of course there is, but given lines of unmasked police officers were happily there, I feel it is easy to over estimate the dangers.
So yeah, a small risk is there. Which needs to be weighed up on the injustices being fought for. To those who say now is not the time I'd simply ask when is it time? Cos for years police brutality has gone unchallenged by those same voices. Correct if I am wrong here but I must have missed Pritti Patel speaking out against police racism or lack of accountability in the UK police force.
It could be a moment in history when fundamental changes were brought in. A moment when people may ask what side were you on? What side did you march for, which side did you actively support?
And to say or do nothing is to side with the status quo. Which is to side with those who hold and abuse their power. And to stay home isn't something I judge appropriate for me or my conscience.
There is only 1 way to deal with bullies, and that is to look them in the face and say "Fck you". In whatever form they come. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 8:33]
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I attended the protests in Sheffield on Saturday and will be attending any further protest that happen in the city.
Everyone in attendance was peaceful and most were wearing masks. There was also very little police presence which helps massively to keep these protest peaceful.
People complaining about violence at the protests in London need to look at the protest that happened across the UK and ask why there was more violence when there was a heavier police presence? | | | |
| UK BLM protest images on 15:03 - Jun 8 with 2477 views | Half_Idiot |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:00 - Jun 8 by bluelagos |
Ok, so a quick google shows that 25% of the prison population in UK is BAME, roughly twice the percentage of BAME share of UK population.
So it would be reasonable, if police stop and search targets people based on their likelihood to be serious criminals for the rates to be roughly double for black people than white people. It is 10 times higher.
So I think you are somewhat way off the mark. |
In addition to what you've already stated, black people are nearly three times as likely to die in policy custody than white people.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1122775/deaths-in-police-custody-in-the-uk-2 | | | |
| UK BLM protest images on 15:08 - Jun 8 with 2459 views | 26_Paz |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:48 - Jun 8 by Libero |
I can't comment on specifics as I've not actually seen any footage of any police being attacked in the UK, I have however seen plenty of footage of UK Police doing things that really aren't on which provoked a response.
America seems to allow a special breed of psychopath in to their police force that maybe we don't, but that's only a small part of the issues at play.
Regardless, US/UK/AUS - it's the same movement with the same purpose, values, thoughts and feelings.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but you sound desperate to reach for a reason to discredit what is justifiable frustration and anger. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 14:50]
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It is possible to both understand the cause and be of the personal opinion that they have gone too far | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 15:09 - Jun 8 with 2455 views | 26_Paz |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:52 - Jun 8 by Half_Idiot |
Does the criminal damage bother you more than the prejudices against someone due to the colour of their skin? |
Neither are necessary ... | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 15:10 - Jun 8 with 2450 views | 26_Paz |
| UK BLM protest images on 14:51 - Jun 8 by Half_Idiot |
Horses have no place at the protests in the first place. The use of them is purely an intimidation tactic by the police. |
Lobbing bottles, defacing statues and smashing windows is purely an intimidation tactic by the protestors | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 15:11 - Jun 8 with 2451 views | Libero |
| UK BLM protest images on 15:08 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
It is possible to both understand the cause and be of the personal opinion that they have gone too far |
It is, but you're not really justifying your personal opinion very well at all. | | | |
| UK BLM protest images on 15:13 - Jun 8 with 2440 views | Libero |
| UK BLM protest images on 15:10 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
Lobbing bottles, defacing statues and smashing windows is purely an intimidation tactic by the protestors |
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| UK BLM protest images on 15:14 - Jun 8 with 2439 views | 26_Paz |
| UK BLM protest images on 15:11 - Jun 8 by Libero |
It is, but you're not really justifying your personal opinion very well at all. |
Your opinion mate. | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 15:20 - Jun 8 with 2428 views | Libero |
| UK BLM protest images on 15:14 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
Your opinion mate. |
It is, but if you look across my comments on this subject I've offered praise and criticism/concern. I've conceded certain points when challenged and attempted to see the other side when a pertinent point is put to me as well as giving my own personal opinion and offering explanations on my views when they're challenged.
I'm keen to understand how you've come to your conclusions and you're offering very, very little. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 15:25]
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| UK BLM protest images on 15:23 - Jun 8 with 2416 views | Half_Idiot |
| UK BLM protest images on 15:10 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
Lobbing bottles, defacing statues and smashing windows is purely an intimidation tactic by the protestors |
Ask yourself why there was violence in London where there was a heavier police presence than in any other city across the UK?
Also ask yourself why is the media only talking about the violence at the London protests and not the largely peaceful protests that happened elsewhere? | | | |
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