| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. 19:16 - Jun 20 with 4064 views | Shawsey |
I remember when we were in the low 100s when the government said if we kept it below 20,000 deaths, we would have done well. As we are now more than double that figure, is the government going to admit that they have handled the whole situation terribly. Matt Hancock is a disgrace and should be the first of many to go. Which ever side of the political divide you sit, you must all agree that this Conservative government has cost far to many lives and suffering. Sorry for the rant, but I am disgusted how this lot are handling this. |  | | |  |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 19:41 - Jun 20 with 1603 views | jaykay |
so callis was right |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 19:49 - Jun 20 with 1581 views | Oldsmoker |
Hancock has already been set up as the fall guy. He won't be going anywhere soon because there's still an enormous amount of blame to come and he has to take that too. It's not all his fault but he has to take one for the team to save Boris from embarassment. His ambition to be PM has been blown to pieces anyway. |  |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:20 - Jun 20 with 1536 views | jeera |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 19:41 - Jun 20 by jaykay |
so callis was right |
Along with hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of other people.
That's not to take anything away from him.
But sometimes you can say something once or twice and still be right.
You aren't more right by saying it a thousand times. Nor do points become more significant and meaningful if you use capital letters.
*This is my first callis post and no, I do not currently have any issue with him. |  |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:25 - Jun 20 with 1520 views | Swansea_Blue |
And the rest. It’s more likely most of the excess deaths plus some of the ‘normal’ level of deaths. Don’t know what that is now, and we may never have an accurate figure, but must be 60,000+. An utter feck up of a response. Has been from the start, still is.
But ‘the people’ wanted this in the name of Getting Brexit Done, so who am I to criticise? That’s democracy for you. |  |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:27 - Jun 20 with 1514 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 19:41 - Jun 20 by jaykay |
so callis was right |
Absolutely. And there’s no reason he shouldn’t have been, as this is the least talented bunch to ever be in government. We knew that when we voted them in. | |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:31 - Jun 20 with 1505 views | bluelagos |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:25 - Jun 20 by Swansea_Blue |
And the rest. It’s more likely most of the excess deaths plus some of the ‘normal’ level of deaths. Don’t know what that is now, and we may never have an accurate figure, but must be 60,000+. An utter feck up of a response. Has been from the start, still is.
But ‘the people’ wanted this in the name of Getting Brexit Done, so who am I to criticise? That’s democracy for you. |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:35 - Jun 20 with 1493 views | catch74 |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 19:41 - Jun 20 by jaykay |
so callis was right |
Luckily the couple of posters making light of Covid, arguing against the lockdown etc seem to have disappeared. |  |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:36 - Jun 20 with 1491 views | bluelagos |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:31 - Jun 20 by bluelagos |
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We are also still to deal with the schools, tracing app and the NHS backlog that will follow the months of shutdown of non critical surgeries and reduction of screening and lower patient "presentations" to GPs.
Clusterfck of a response from a clusterfck of a govenment. Still, at least our "oven ready brexit" has been delivered and the economic benefits will be there to offset the difficult times ahead... | |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:36 - Jun 20 with 1489 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:31 - Jun 20 by bluelagos |
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Grim. That the excess. Presumably some of the deaths within normal levels would have been Covid too. Nobody ever seems to talk about that (maybe because I’m confused!). | |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:45 - Jun 20 with 1458 views | bluelagos |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:36 - Jun 20 by Swansea_Blue |
Grim. That the excess. Presumably some of the deaths within normal levels would have been Covid too. Nobody ever seems to talk about that (maybe because I’m confused!). |
But it's been an apparent success according to our PM. He is proud of our response...
I disagree with the poster who said Hancock is being lined up to take the can. I think it is the govt advisers (SAGE) who are being lined up - and it is hard to see how they come out of it well. That said the poor govt response (nightingale aside) is sod all to do with SAGE and can't be passed off as poor advice. | |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:49 - Jun 20 with 1451 views | bluelagos |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 19:41 - Jun 20 by jaykay |
so callis was right |
Very much so imho. | |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:02 - Jun 20 with 1420 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:45 - Jun 20 by bluelagos |
But it's been an apparent success according to our PM. He is proud of our response...
I disagree with the poster who said Hancock is being lined up to take the can. I think it is the govt advisers (SAGE) who are being lined up - and it is hard to see how they come out of it well. That said the poor govt response (nightingale aside) is sod all to do with SAGE and can't be passed off as poor advice. |
The Independent Sage is an interesting development. I wasn’t sure how to think of them, thinking it might be at least in part politically motivated. But they seem to be nailing it, week after week. Of course, they can concentrate on the public health angle whereas the real SAGE’s advice is only one input into the decision making. The real SAGE also seems to have a number of government advisers sitting in on the meetings, for reasons yet to be explained.
There’s a podcast out on what happened to the Govt when Boris got sick. I’m half listening to it now and only 20 mins in, but it’s fascinating so far. 50 mins long with apple & Spotify links.
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:12 - Jun 20 with 1387 views | jeera |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 20:31 - Jun 20 by bluelagos |
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Sorry for being thick on this.
But why are sites like worldometers reporting this differently?
I keep seeing these higher figures reported on the beeb et al but not on there too. | |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:28 - Jun 20 with 1338 views | bluelagos |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:12 - Jun 20 by jeera |
Sorry for being thick on this.
But why are sites like worldometers reporting this differently?
I keep seeing these higher figures reported on the beeb et al but not on there too. |
Not being thick mate - there are different ways of looking at it.
Don't know worldometers but I'll try and explain it how I see it.
Three ways of looking at it.
1. Govt figures
Used by the govt / BBC and Keir Starmer.
People who have covid on the death certificate. Will be reported deaths so there is a small time lag as some hospitals put their numbers in a few days late.
Originally was only hospital deaths - now they include care home figures too.
2. ONS deaths.
As above - but more accurate as they include all the at home figures/care homes etc. Released weekly and are reliable but a few days behind.
3. Excess deaths
FT guy (and others) take the ONS deaths and compare to average deaths to get excess deaths. FT guy also adds in an estimate for the few days lag.
Excess deaths are higher than govt. COVID figures for a number of reasons.
a. Some COVID deaths are not recorded as such - but have happened.
b. Some other deaths have occurred for example people reluctant to go to hospital with say chest pains - then die.
Edit - just looked at the worldometers site - and can't see any reason why their figures are lower. They do pull together figures for every country so guess they are quite capable of making a mistake in collating - but nothing jumps out, sorry. [Post edited 20 Jun 2020 21:37]
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:28 - Jun 20 with 1338 views | Bent_double |
Building the Nightingale hospitals seems to be the only thing they have got right in the last 4 months, but they've even managed to mess that up by leaving them virtually empty whilst millions of standard operations get cancelled in other hospitals as they deal with the covid threat. |  |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:37 - Jun 20 with 1319 views | Bluesquid |
Every death is very sad and tragic but how many of these would have died this year anyway if they hadn't been infected?
I think it's a fair question to ask and i think it may even be as many as 2 thirds of this number. |  | | |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:39 - Jun 20 with 1317 views | itfcjoe |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:37 - Jun 20 by Bluesquid |
Every death is very sad and tragic but how many of these would have died this year anyway if they hadn't been infected?
I think it's a fair question to ask and i think it may even be as many as 2 thirds of this number. |
2/3s? Don’t be ridiculous |  |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:40 - Jun 20 with 1316 views | bluelagos |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:37 - Jun 20 by Bluesquid |
Every death is very sad and tragic but how many of these would have died this year anyway if they hadn't been infected?
I think it's a fair question to ask and i think it may even be as many as 2 thirds of this number. |
If that is correct, then we will see a large reduction in excess deaths over the coming months.
I suspect there will be some reduction but only time will allow us to say with confidence how many additional deaths have been caused.
There will also be the increased deaths due to for example lower screening for cancers. | |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:40 - Jun 20 with 1306 views | Bluesquid |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:39 - Jun 20 by itfcjoe |
2/3s? Don’t be ridiculous |
Well how many do you think it is then? | | | |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:41 - Jun 20 with 1316 views | jeera |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:37 - Jun 20 by Bluesquid |
Every death is very sad and tragic but how many of these would have died this year anyway if they hadn't been infected?
I think it's a fair question to ask and i think it may even be as many as 2 thirds of this number. |
The term 'excess deaths' has been used enough to put that one to bed.
Still not understanding why you're looking for any possible angles to play the whole thing down.
It's weird. | |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:42 - Jun 20 with 1304 views | Bluesquid |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:41 - Jun 20 by jeera |
The term 'excess deaths' has been used enough to put that one to bed.
Still not understanding why you're looking for any possible angles to play the whole thing down.
It's weird. |
How am i playing it down? | | | |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:44 - Jun 20 with 1304 views | bluelagos |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:40 - Jun 20 by Bluesquid |
Well how many do you think it is then? |
What is the point of speculating? Of course some will have died anyway, the elderly in care homes are near the end of their lives.
But none of us know and we won't know for a few more months. [Post edited 20 Jun 2020 22:09]
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:46 - Jun 20 with 1295 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:37 - Jun 20 by Bluesquid |
Every death is very sad and tragic but how many of these would have died this year anyway if they hadn't been infected?
I think it's a fair question to ask and i think it may even be as many as 2 thirds of this number. |
We all die eventually. Hope that helps. | |
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:47 - Jun 20 with 1282 views | Bluesquid |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:44 - Jun 20 by bluelagos |
What is the point of speculating? Of course some will have died anyway, the elderly in care homes are near the end of their lives.
But none of us know and we won't know for a few more months. [Post edited 20 Jun 2020 22:09]
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Plenty of people speculate here so i don't see how it hurts for me to bring this up on the forum, furthermore my speculation is backed up by a well known British epidemiologist. [Post edited 20 Jun 2020 21:49]
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| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:48 - Jun 20 with 1286 views | jeera |
| 42,589 lives now lost to Covid-19 in the UK. on 21:28 - Jun 20 by bluelagos |
Not being thick mate - there are different ways of looking at it.
Don't know worldometers but I'll try and explain it how I see it.
Three ways of looking at it.
1. Govt figures
Used by the govt / BBC and Keir Starmer.
People who have covid on the death certificate. Will be reported deaths so there is a small time lag as some hospitals put their numbers in a few days late.
Originally was only hospital deaths - now they include care home figures too.
2. ONS deaths.
As above - but more accurate as they include all the at home figures/care homes etc. Released weekly and are reliable but a few days behind.
3. Excess deaths
FT guy (and others) take the ONS deaths and compare to average deaths to get excess deaths. FT guy also adds in an estimate for the few days lag.
Excess deaths are higher than govt. COVID figures for a number of reasons.
a. Some COVID deaths are not recorded as such - but have happened.
b. Some other deaths have occurred for example people reluctant to go to hospital with say chest pains - then die.
Edit - just looked at the worldometers site - and can't see any reason why their figures are lower. They do pull together figures for every country so guess they are quite capable of making a mistake in collating - but nothing jumps out, sorry. [Post edited 20 Jun 2020 21:37]
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I appreciate that mortality rates were being measured differently for some time, but taking into account that supposedly all fatalities are counted now is where I'm getting confused.
Like I say, the worldometers site is a credible source and is quoted in lots of places, but their figures differ by some amount.
So, those now suggesting figures in the higher numbers have included backdated, previously ignored data too?
This is what I mean. Even those organisations that didn't include all before have their figures at the higher end of the scale, whilst some others who claim to be more accurate are lower.
I wish there a universal method because it's difficult to get a true picture with the variations. And it feels like you're still being conned a bit here and there.
More Glasnost I say. | |
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