| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... 14:50 - Nov 20 with 2270 views | bluelagos |
Given the very welcome decision of the UK govt to ban the sales of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030, does that now mean we can all congratulate XR on putting the issue firmly on the agenda, achieving far more by their direct action than anyone else has managed in the past century to change the political agenda and help save our precious planet?
Anyone changed their views or are they still thought to be harming their cause by their actions? |  |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:12 - Nov 20 with 786 views | StokieBlue |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:11 - Nov 20 by Bluefish |
Would you listen and ever accept what I say? Seems unlikely |
If you've got the expertise then of course I would listen.
Really is a rather childish post from you.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:13 - Nov 20 with 782 views | Bluefish |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:12 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue |
If you've got the expertise then of course I would listen.
Really is a rather childish post from you.
SB |
Read your posts |  |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:17 - Nov 20 with 777 views | SouperJim |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:06 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue |
You are totally looking at things from within your own existence.
What about the millions of people who can't have a charging point? For instance a good proportion of London is terrace housing or flats, there simply aren't drives in which to install a charging point.
Petrol stations don't really work - you can't recharge in 2 minutes and then let the next person in like you can with hydrocarbons.
Perhaps look outside your own world for a few minutes and see if issues exist there. I agree it needs to happen, what I have said is they haven't budgeted enough for it in my opinion.
Don't get me wrong here - I really want us to transition to a non-petrol infrastructure, I just think they need to allocate more budget to do it.
SB [Post edited 20 Nov 2020 16:09]
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If you can't have a charging point at home, then I guess there needs to be one wherever your park your car when you're not at home. So car parks, workplace or otherwise. There are 4 charging stations in one corner of the car park where I work, for instance. I guess it's a matter of scaling that up as demand increases, government subsidy for business to get them in place etc? |  |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:19 - Nov 20 with 770 views | woiii |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 15:15 - Nov 20 by wkj |
I too feel that the timeline is arbitrary.
The cynic in me feels a delay will be the best case scenario, but the likely outcome will be moving the goalposts so that what counts as a hybrid ends up being a tweaked alternator or some such. |
Hybrids are also banned from 2030 aren't they? And the government will fund it all by the introduction of a pay-per-mile tariff on all vehicles, as has been mentioned in the last week, which will replace the lost fuel duty + also be able to fund the electric infrastrucutre. |  | | |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:21 - Nov 20 with 761 views | StokieBlue |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:13 - Nov 20 by Bluefish |
Read your posts |
You mean the ones with actual points and questions?
If you don't want to share your expertise then that is fine, probably best not to have a meltdown when someone challenges your assertions though. A much better idea is to point out how they are wrong.
Let's start again.
There are 300,000 people in Hackney, virtually of them live in terraced houses (some of which are flats) and blocks of flats. How can they "just order a charger online" given they don't have a driveway and can't always park directly outside their houses. Purpose build flats I agree could have chargers fitted but flats in terrace houses would somehow need multiple chargers in some instances.
I am genuinely interested to hear how this is easily solved because then we can actually do it. I'd certainly be looking into it.
Of course the obvious answer is to not have a car which could also work given other infrastructure around that goal.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:21 - Nov 20 with 760 views | SpruceMoose |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:11 - Nov 20 by Bluefish |
Would you listen and ever accept what I say? Seems unlikely |
Oof. That's a feeble dodge mate. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:21 - Nov 20 with 759 views | SpruceMoose |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:13 - Nov 20 by Bluefish |
Read your posts |
And another. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:22 - Nov 20 with 758 views | StokieBlue |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:17 - Nov 20 by SouperJim |
If you can't have a charging point at home, then I guess there needs to be one wherever your park your car when you're not at home. So car parks, workplace or otherwise. There are 4 charging stations in one corner of the car park where I work, for instance. I guess it's a matter of scaling that up as demand increases, government subsidy for business to get them in place etc? |
I agree that would be excellent but not everyone drives to work, especially in the bigger cities.
Perhaps the answer is simply to have less cars so there isn't the need for the charging infrastructure in cities but in order for that to work there needs to be investment in both public transport and cycling infrastructure.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:23 - Nov 20 with 756 views | SpruceMoose |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:17 - Nov 20 by SouperJim |
If you can't have a charging point at home, then I guess there needs to be one wherever your park your car when you're not at home. So car parks, workplace or otherwise. There are 4 charging stations in one corner of the car park where I work, for instance. I guess it's a matter of scaling that up as demand increases, government subsidy for business to get them in place etc? |
Can't we just make roads and carparks out of whatever the charging mate that charges my iPhone is made out of?  | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:27 - Nov 20 with 750 views | Bluefish |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:21 - Nov 20 by SpruceMoose |
Oof. That's a feeble dodge mate. |
But it is true. What could I possibly say to him about the government legislations in 10 years time that he would accept? His mind is made up and he just gets rude and weird usually. Hence RFSB | |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:30 - Nov 20 with 743 views | Bluefish |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:23 - Nov 20 by SpruceMoose |
Can't we just make roads and carparks out of whatever the charging mate that charges my iPhone is made out of? |
Wireless car charging exists and has potential. More likely to be driveways though | |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:32 - Nov 20 with 741 views | SpruceMoose |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:27 - Nov 20 by Bluefish |
But it is true. What could I possibly say to him about the government legislations in 10 years time that he would accept? His mind is made up and he just gets rude and weird usually. Hence RFSB |
He asked several reasonable questions that you're trying to avoid by making a bit of a scene. Could you start by answering the questions and go from there? It's not your problem if a particular posters don't care much for your answers. I'm actually interested in your thoughts on this if it is in your professional area. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:33 - Nov 20 with 738 views | Bluefish |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:32 - Nov 20 by SpruceMoose |
He asked several reasonable questions that you're trying to avoid by making a bit of a scene. Could you start by answering the questions and go from there? It's not your problem if a particular posters don't care much for your answers. I'm actually interested in your thoughts on this if it is in your professional area. |
What are the questions? | |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:33 - Nov 20 with 737 views | bluelagos |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:22 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue |
I agree that would be excellent but not everyone drives to work, especially in the bigger cities.
Perhaps the answer is simply to have less cars so there isn't the need for the charging infrastructure in cities but in order for that to work there needs to be investment in both public transport and cycling infrastructure.
SB |
Investment in public transport and cycling? People have been asking for that for the past 20 years - but better late than never.
You used any of the zipcar thingys? They look quite handy for a non car owning Londoner. | |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:34 - Nov 20 with 735 views | SpruceMoose |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:30 - Nov 20 by Bluefish |
Wireless car charging exists and has potential. More likely to be driveways though |
Damn I should have patented that. I came up with it years ago during a particularly length poo. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:36 - Nov 20 with 732 views | StokieBlue |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:27 - Nov 20 by Bluefish |
But it is true. What could I possibly say to him about the government legislations in 10 years time that he would accept? His mind is made up and he just gets rude and weird usually. Hence RFSB |
I've laid out my questions in the hope that you'd share your expertise. None of them have anything to do with government legislations but about technology solutions.
Rather than answer you've decided to go for a character assassination. Only you know why you've decided to do that.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:37 - Nov 20 with 729 views | SpruceMoose |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:33 - Nov 20 by Bluefish |
What are the questions? |
Well mainly I'm interested in this one:
"What about the millions of people who can't have a charging point? For instance a good proportion of London is terrace housing or flats, there simply aren't drives in which to install a charging point."
From my own perspective, I'd be down for owning an electric vehicle but we only have street parking round this way, so where I end up parking varies everytime I use my car. It's almost always never outside my house though. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:38 - Nov 20 with 728 views | StokieBlue |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:33 - Nov 20 by bluelagos |
Investment in public transport and cycling? People have been asking for that for the past 20 years - but better late than never.
You used any of the zipcar thingys? They look quite handy for a non car owning Londoner. |
Indeed, as someone who was knocked off my bike by a car I am always hoping for better cycling infrastructure. To be fair they are trying but they aren't anywhere near getting the balance right.
I've got a car but I have used the Zipvans which are rather good. Unfortunately they are all petrol as well though.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:39 - Nov 20 with 725 views | woiii |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:21 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue |
You mean the ones with actual points and questions?
If you don't want to share your expertise then that is fine, probably best not to have a meltdown when someone challenges your assertions though. A much better idea is to point out how they are wrong.
Let's start again.
There are 300,000 people in Hackney, virtually of them live in terraced houses (some of which are flats) and blocks of flats. How can they "just order a charger online" given they don't have a driveway and can't always park directly outside their houses. Purpose build flats I agree could have chargers fitted but flats in terrace houses would somehow need multiple chargers in some instances.
I am genuinely interested to hear how this is easily solved because then we can actually do it. I'd certainly be looking into it.
Of course the obvious answer is to not have a car which could also work given other infrastructure around that goal.
SB |
I was talking to the electrician who was fitting my smartmeter about all this the other day and he reckoned you would need to install infrastructure to the tune of 20-50 substations to electrify an entire multi-storey car park.
Now bearing in mind he was only fitting my smartmeter this could be total crap, but if someone on here knows what they're talking about it would be good to be informed. | | | |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:47 - Nov 20 with 705 views | Bluefish |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:36 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue |
I've laid out my questions in the hope that you'd share your expertise. None of them have anything to do with government legislations but about technology solutions.
Rather than answer you've decided to go for a character assassination. Only you know why you've decided to do that.
SB |
I've looked back and thebonky question i can see if the flat question.
To comply with the initial ban, none of them need to have charging because they might not drive a new car
Beyond that you would look at where they park today. A very large car park operator that I know is currently looking at chargers in every bay to encourage use of the car park overnight for people without their own driveway. This would be similar to a parking permit as people in flats have today. I would strongly suspect councils to continue to do the same as we are already seeing with streetlight infrastructure. If they are not close it might mean escooter to the car
The next step is subscription models. Will everyone need a car. Could a pass that allows public transport, car hire, car clubs, etc scooters etc solve that issue for city folk. Again this exists today
Self driving exists today but not legally will cars be able to collect and drop off by then? Unlikely but far from impossible.
The other part is batteries and storing electricity, potentially a bigger issue with the grid impact. All homes should have batteries and we should smaller portable ones for cars
The levc model will also be interrest. It is an electric vehicle but it has a generator inside
There is such much to change before then but it really isn't that far fetched considering the tech jumps
Batteries already charge 80% in 20 mins the only thing that stops that being better is overheating. Again we could have gains there isnchsrhing tech, they claim some are in test that do not get hot. There are also 1000 mile batteries built today, they just need to get them in cars. Designing cars from scratch is seeing huge leaps compared to strapping batteries on | |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:55 - Nov 20 with 690 views | StokieBlue |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:47 - Nov 20 by Bluefish |
I've looked back and thebonky question i can see if the flat question.
To comply with the initial ban, none of them need to have charging because they might not drive a new car
Beyond that you would look at where they park today. A very large car park operator that I know is currently looking at chargers in every bay to encourage use of the car park overnight for people without their own driveway. This would be similar to a parking permit as people in flats have today. I would strongly suspect councils to continue to do the same as we are already seeing with streetlight infrastructure. If they are not close it might mean escooter to the car
The next step is subscription models. Will everyone need a car. Could a pass that allows public transport, car hire, car clubs, etc scooters etc solve that issue for city folk. Again this exists today
Self driving exists today but not legally will cars be able to collect and drop off by then? Unlikely but far from impossible.
The other part is batteries and storing electricity, potentially a bigger issue with the grid impact. All homes should have batteries and we should smaller portable ones for cars
The levc model will also be interrest. It is an electric vehicle but it has a generator inside
There is such much to change before then but it really isn't that far fetched considering the tech jumps
Batteries already charge 80% in 20 mins the only thing that stops that being better is overheating. Again we could have gains there isnchsrhing tech, they claim some are in test that do not get hot. There are also 1000 mile batteries built today, they just need to get them in cars. Designing cars from scratch is seeing huge leaps compared to strapping batteries on |
Thanks.
So I could see some of those would work in a city which is good. You are of course right that people might not have a new car but they will have to switch over at some point.
I think the car subscription model could work in cities, it's highly debatable if so many people really need a car somewhere like London.
I don't think the car park model works here as there are no car parks really but I can certainly see that working in some locations.
Would a smaller, portable battery which you were able to carry to the car pack enough punch? As it stands car batteries are huge and take up a good portion of the weight of a car.
Aren't hybrids and LEVC cars also coming under the ban? Possibly not 2030 but not too far after that.
For the 80% charge in 20 minutes don't you then need to do a full slow charge after that? Ie. you can't repeatedly do the 80% fast charges? Obviously if they can get this to work consistently then it's a game changer.
As I said, I am all for moving over, just think the government need to allocate more money to do it. People will need to be nudged to get chargers put in as well councils and private establishments.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 17:00 - Nov 20 with 685 views | Bluefish |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 16:55 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue |
Thanks.
So I could see some of those would work in a city which is good. You are of course right that people might not have a new car but they will have to switch over at some point.
I think the car subscription model could work in cities, it's highly debatable if so many people really need a car somewhere like London.
I don't think the car park model works here as there are no car parks really but I can certainly see that working in some locations.
Would a smaller, portable battery which you were able to carry to the car pack enough punch? As it stands car batteries are huge and take up a good portion of the weight of a car.
Aren't hybrids and LEVC cars also coming under the ban? Possibly not 2030 but not too far after that.
For the 80% charge in 20 minutes don't you then need to do a full slow charge after that? Ie. you can't repeatedly do the 80% fast charges? Obviously if they can get this to work consistently then it's a game changer.
As I said, I am all for moving over, just think the government need to allocate more money to do it. People will need to be nudged to get chargers put in as well councils and private establishments.
SB |
PHEVs are being banned and rightly so, they are a scam and doing more harm than good to dodge tax
Levc are technically an electric vehicle so it will be interesting on that. I've got a mate there so I will find out where they sit
The tech will move so fast with batteries just like mobile phones changed so much or tvs did or computers. The big players are on board now.
I've ordered my charger already to get a good deal on it and get the grant. Soon it will be an expectation when buying a house
The bigger issues as I say are the CAFE regulations and brexit and then how to store power so that we don't all charge together. Big home batteries and solar panels would be a good start but again needs to be affordable | |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 17:11 - Nov 20 with 674 views | StokieBlue |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 17:00 - Nov 20 by Bluefish |
PHEVs are being banned and rightly so, they are a scam and doing more harm than good to dodge tax
Levc are technically an electric vehicle so it will be interesting on that. I've got a mate there so I will find out where they sit
The tech will move so fast with batteries just like mobile phones changed so much or tvs did or computers. The big players are on board now.
I've ordered my charger already to get a good deal on it and get the grant. Soon it will be an expectation when buying a house
The bigger issues as I say are the CAFE regulations and brexit and then how to store power so that we don't all charge together. Big home batteries and solar panels would be a good start but again needs to be affordable |
Great, thanks for the info.
Seems you are very bullish so do you think the government have allocated enough money? I think in order to help people transition there are going to need to be subsidies (I know you can get them for the chargers).
Do you think the oil companies will go big on converting their petrol stations to fast charging stations or is there simply not the margin there to make it worth their while?
I'm hopeful though, 2030 is an excellent date to aim for but am wary of it and I feel it may slip. It's also interesting the different problems that will need to be resolved between cities and more rural areas. I still know see how I can have an electric car at the moment but hopefully technology will make it feasible as you suggest.
SB [Post edited 20 Nov 2020 17:12]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 17:33 - Nov 20 with 655 views | Bluefish |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 17:11 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue |
Great, thanks for the info.
Seems you are very bullish so do you think the government have allocated enough money? I think in order to help people transition there are going to need to be subsidies (I know you can get them for the chargers).
Do you think the oil companies will go big on converting their petrol stations to fast charging stations or is there simply not the margin there to make it worth their while?
I'm hopeful though, 2030 is an excellent date to aim for but am wary of it and I feel it may slip. It's also interesting the different problems that will need to be resolved between cities and more rural areas. I still know see how I can have an electric car at the moment but hopefully technology will make it feasible as you suggest.
SB [Post edited 20 Nov 2020 17:12]
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I can't comment at all on the goverment part I'm afraid. I have a colleague very close to that but I am focused purely on the corporate side. I am presenting at a weiner next weekend where others will hopefully know much more than me on the goverment and infrastructure side
Shell and BP have both been out and bought players in the charging market. They know what they have to do and have little choice. Not much point having petrol and diesel only pumps when BEV is growing
I actually think the subsidies will disappear when the public keep switching. The car grants virtually did and the charger grants will. The manufacturers are getting better st that though and starting to include them
In the Netherlands they are miles ahead of us | |
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| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 22:20 - Nov 20 with 612 views | Pendejo |
| Seeing as how we have all "moved on" a tad... on 15:36 - Nov 20 by Bluefish |
How far do you go and how often? You might find the amount you save in fuel offsets a train or a hire car for the longest journeys or you just plan ahead and schedule stops. This time next year will see cars doing nearly 400 miles potentially on 1 charge |
Test v Real World driving.
Like conventional diesel / petrol test mpg rarely achieved in real world driving, the same applies to fully electric cars.
I have tested 2 fully electric cars and neither achieved anything near the claimed mileage. |  |
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