| The Pub Industry 14:05 - Nov 23 with 3858 views | hype313 |
Read this earlier from someone prominent in the trade.
Today's announcements will spell the end of the traditional British pub as we know it and will have a devastating impact on communities.
I have heard reports this morning that 94 per cent of pubs in Tier 3 areas will go under by Spring, and while this may seem excessive to some, it is no exaggeration.
It is clear that the ever-increasing debt from rents, rates and bills will be too much for the majority, especially the independent operators which cannot lean on parent companies.
Operators across Greater Manchester and the UK have spent several millions on making their venues covid-secure, following the Government's own guidelines, and I can only view these new regulations as a knife in the back and to the heart of the sector.
Operators now face business ruin and the finalisation of redundancy procedures, and for a sector where 21% of full-time workers and 53 per cent of part-time workers are already paid under Living Wage*, many workers now face an increased risk of poverty.
On Thursday, the Government will vote on these proposed measures.
We urge MPs on both sides to do the right thing and vote against the destruction of the nation's most loved sector.
Would be awful to see the demise of the pub, but we're still a way off from being able to fully open, such a shame.
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| The Pub Industry on 09:20 - Nov 24 with 328 views | Churchman |
Pubs are largely a sacrifice by this awful government to show they are ‘doing something’. The 4 pubs I went in before lockdown were the safest places I knew. Far more so than Tesco’s etc, let alone places of education. They’d tried so hard with rules etc.
If they’d been a shred of evidence that those places had been a source of C19 then I’d have been the first to want them shut. But there wasn’t. If they go to the wall, that’ll be entirely down to Haystack and co’s grotesque incompetence. |  | | |
| The Pub Industry on 09:20 - Nov 24 with 329 views | bluelagos |
| The Pub Industry on 08:47 - Nov 24 by wkj |
In all honesty, I think the majority of traditional British pubs died a long long time ago. As much as I love a good pub lunch, gone are many of the good ol boozers that maybe serve scotch eggs at a push.
Pubs now to me are more or less restaurants with a broad selection of booze. |
They are a dying trade, little debate.
The issue is what they offer is now available elsewhere, far cheaper. And I don't mean booze. I mean conversation.
So when we were 18, you went to the pub to socialise. When a pint costs 1/4 as much in a supermarket be clear, what you are paying for is the surrounds - a chance to meet and chat with people.
With social media - you can meet and chat inside your own home, at nil cost. So the pub suffers accordingly.
Throw in the health issues of alcohol, smoking ban, drink driving laws and lots of alternative social activities - and it's a wonder as many pubs are still open.
All of which is a real shame as I am a big fan of the traditional pub. |  |
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| The Pub Industry on 09:36 - Nov 24 with 301 views | itfcjoe |
| The Pub Industry on 09:17 - Nov 24 by catch74 |
You’re right. My pub is probably nearly 70% food now. It is the best way to survive. Having worked for nearly 20 years for Whitbread and what their pubs became plus 8 years here I’ve seen a massive change. If you get it right it’s very rewarding, it has to be a job not a lifestyle now.
Generally pubs that fail are tied (the Tom Kerridge save our pubs is covering this.) I’ve spoken in detail before but I know several pubs in my area that have closed solely because of the tie.
I researched thoroughly before leaving managed houses and going it alone, it’s all out there very clearly, don’t touch tied pubs. The one way round it is to do what Tom Kerridge has done - focus on food, you get all the profit from that.
We’re lucky, the freehold is owned by a private couple, I’ve negotiated a rent reduction - back at the start of the last lock down, including Christmas - it looked fairly obvious back then that it would not be a normal year. We’ve got the £50k loan sat in a bank, in case we need it, we’ve battened down the hatches and the furlough is helping.
The grant of £2000 is a pittance but then you hear there are 3 million self employed that have received nothing. It’s when you read about the people actually profiteering from the pandemic that the blood boils a bit.
We can make profit in tier 1 and possibly 2, tier 3 is us locked down again - we do limited take away as we’re in the middle of nowhere. So fingers crossed it’s tier 1.
It’s out us back a couple of years, we were very close to buying the freehold, we’ll have to wait on that now.
As someone else has said it’s not the pubs it’s the people. The ones that do drink on here now do so around each other’s houses, where there is no one to sanitise or keep them apart or send them home when they’ve had too much. |
We do a lot of work for pubs, and think the tied ones are getting better - but they still want and take their pound of flesh - 10-12 years ago there were some real horror stories about how they were treating their tenants.
But, you've got to be very good or lucky to make money out of tied pubs, able to have a few and get good managers in place.....the jump from one to a few is incredibly difficult and so many fail at that stage.
But anyone who goes into it not thinking it is a lifestyle is going to fail - we see it all the time......people who've worked in a pub want to take one on, and when we are doing refurbs and the pub needs setting up they swan in at lunch time and never catch up. You can tell who will be more of a success straight away from our side |  |
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| The Pub Industry on 09:38 - Nov 24 with 296 views | hype313 |
| The Pub Industry on 09:36 - Nov 24 by itfcjoe |
We do a lot of work for pubs, and think the tied ones are getting better - but they still want and take their pound of flesh - 10-12 years ago there were some real horror stories about how they were treating their tenants.
But, you've got to be very good or lucky to make money out of tied pubs, able to have a few and get good managers in place.....the jump from one to a few is incredibly difficult and so many fail at that stage.
But anyone who goes into it not thinking it is a lifestyle is going to fail - we see it all the time......people who've worked in a pub want to take one on, and when we are doing refurbs and the pub needs setting up they swan in at lunch time and never catch up. You can tell who will be more of a success straight away from our side |
I get the impression that Greene King are horrific, but Adnams are very good, from the limited conversations I have had with various landlords around the area. | |
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| The Pub Industry on 09:45 - Nov 24 with 285 views | Mookamoo |
| The Pub Industry on 09:36 - Nov 24 by itfcjoe |
We do a lot of work for pubs, and think the tied ones are getting better - but they still want and take their pound of flesh - 10-12 years ago there were some real horror stories about how they were treating their tenants.
But, you've got to be very good or lucky to make money out of tied pubs, able to have a few and get good managers in place.....the jump from one to a few is incredibly difficult and so many fail at that stage.
But anyone who goes into it not thinking it is a lifestyle is going to fail - we see it all the time......people who've worked in a pub want to take one on, and when we are doing refurbs and the pub needs setting up they swan in at lunch time and never catch up. You can tell who will be more of a success straight away from our side |
One of our locals went out of business a couple of years ago. It was a Greene King and a whole string of managers came and went failing to make a profit. Never mind home drinkers they were also up against the freehold down the street who could even buy Green King beer cheaper than they could. Seemed doomed to fail.
The village enquired about running it as a community concern but the rent they were asking was ridiculous. Its now a nice 3 bedroom with a Range Rover out the front. |  | | |
| The Pub Industry on 09:51 - Nov 24 with 279 views | catch74 |
| The Pub Industry on 09:20 - Nov 24 by bluelagos |
They are a dying trade, little debate.
The issue is what they offer is now available elsewhere, far cheaper. And I don't mean booze. I mean conversation.
So when we were 18, you went to the pub to socialise. When a pint costs 1/4 as much in a supermarket be clear, what you are paying for is the surrounds - a chance to meet and chat with people.
With social media - you can meet and chat inside your own home, at nil cost. So the pub suffers accordingly.
Throw in the health issues of alcohol, smoking ban, drink driving laws and lots of alternative social activities - and it's a wonder as many pubs are still open.
All of which is a real shame as I am a big fan of the traditional pub. |
You can also get a big tv for next to nothing and watch sky at home, kegs of beer, cans of cocktails, ready made pub meals from supermarkets etc etc. I spend so much of my time training staff to understand they are the difference, they have to be friendly enough, positive enough and knowledgeable enough fir someone to pay £4 for something they can drink at home for £1.
Some of my staff are more or less doubling their wages with tips, they’ve taken it all on board and love the job and are getting the rewards. Staff and decent food, saving the hassle - especially for larger groups are the most important points for us. |  |
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| The Pub Industry on 09:54 - Nov 24 with 272 views | bluelagos |
| The Pub Industry on 09:51 - Nov 24 by catch74 |
You can also get a big tv for next to nothing and watch sky at home, kegs of beer, cans of cocktails, ready made pub meals from supermarkets etc etc. I spend so much of my time training staff to understand they are the difference, they have to be friendly enough, positive enough and knowledgeable enough fir someone to pay £4 for something they can drink at home for £1.
Some of my staff are more or less doubling their wages with tips, they’ve taken it all on board and love the job and are getting the rewards. Staff and decent food, saving the hassle - especially for larger groups are the most important points for us. |
Sounds like you are making a go of it. A decent pub, staff and landlord are always a welcome stop :-) | |
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| The Pub Industry on 09:54 - Nov 24 with 270 views | catch74 |
| The Pub Industry on 09:36 - Nov 24 by itfcjoe |
We do a lot of work for pubs, and think the tied ones are getting better - but they still want and take their pound of flesh - 10-12 years ago there were some real horror stories about how they were treating their tenants.
But, you've got to be very good or lucky to make money out of tied pubs, able to have a few and get good managers in place.....the jump from one to a few is incredibly difficult and so many fail at that stage.
But anyone who goes into it not thinking it is a lifestyle is going to fail - we see it all the time......people who've worked in a pub want to take one on, and when we are doing refurbs and the pub needs setting up they swan in at lunch time and never catch up. You can tell who will be more of a success straight away from our side |
Regarding the lifestyle bit - the danger is the drinking at the end of the bar with customers and thinking that’s the job. | |
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| The Pub Industry on 10:06 - Nov 24 with 259 views | Mookamoo |
| The Pub Industry on 09:51 - Nov 24 by catch74 |
You can also get a big tv for next to nothing and watch sky at home, kegs of beer, cans of cocktails, ready made pub meals from supermarkets etc etc. I spend so much of my time training staff to understand they are the difference, they have to be friendly enough, positive enough and knowledgeable enough fir someone to pay £4 for something they can drink at home for £1.
Some of my staff are more or less doubling their wages with tips, they’ve taken it all on board and love the job and are getting the rewards. Staff and decent food, saving the hassle - especially for larger groups are the most important points for us. |
What do you think you will take through from this year? Always struck me table service in UK pubs should work. [Post edited 24 Nov 2020 10:06]
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| The Pub Industry on 10:11 - Nov 24 with 252 views | itfcjoe |
| The Pub Industry on 09:54 - Nov 24 by catch74 |
Regarding the lifestyle bit - the danger is the drinking at the end of the bar with customers and thinking that’s the job. |
Yep, quite easy to get rid of most of your profits in the evening by being generous and friendly. | |
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| The Pub Industry on 10:14 - Nov 24 with 247 views | catch74 |
| The Pub Industry on 10:06 - Nov 24 by Mookamoo |
What do you think you will take through from this year? Always struck me table service in UK pubs should work. [Post edited 24 Nov 2020 10:06]
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We already did table service inside, the staff love it because of the tips and interaction. I think you have to look at American/US service without the cheese. For me it’s changing their opinion of the job - understanding it can be rewarding, it’s not easy - you have to learn about the drinks, the food, how to read customers, how to deal with customers, how to behave at work, how to carry drinks and food, how to look after ales - and as you move up there is so much more. There are so many pubs I go into with young kids with no training or support doing the most important job in the pub.
You can make really good money from a pub but as Joe said you can spot those who will succeed very quickly. | |
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| The Pub Industry on 10:26 - Nov 24 with 234 views | 26_Paz |
| The Pub Industry on 22:35 - Nov 23 by SpruceMoose |
You never stopped! |
When they were open and it was permissible I was going out, if that’s what you mean |  |
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