| Ian Lavery MP 13:32 - Jan 5 with 2320 views | itfcjoe |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 13:36 - Jan 5 with 1601 views | SpruceMoose |
Couldn't finish the clip.
Dumb as a rock.
Do you know where that clip is from and when it was recorded? |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 13:45 - Jan 5 with 1547 views | itfcjoe |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:36 - Jan 5 by SpruceMoose |
Couldn't finish the clip.
Dumb as a rock.
Do you know where that clip is from and when it was recorded? |
I don't sorry, was on Guido website so no doubt someone has leaked it to him.
Lavery was one of the men the Corbynistas wanted to lead the party - I think he should have the whip removed for this | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 13:48 - Jan 5 with 1518 views | SpruceMoose |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:45 - Jan 5 by itfcjoe |
I don't sorry, was on Guido website so no doubt someone has leaked it to him.
Lavery was one of the men the Corbynistas wanted to lead the party - I think he should have the whip removed for this |
Pretty hard for anyone to defend what he's saying there taking it at face value. The only thing I can think to defend it would be discovering that he had suffered a concussion moments before filming that. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 13:51 - Jan 5 with 1501 views | StokieBlue |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:48 - Jan 5 by SpruceMoose |
Pretty hard for anyone to defend what he's saying there taking it at face value. The only thing I can think to defend it would be discovering that he had suffered a concussion moments before filming that. |
It's ill-informed and unscientific bunk.
Puts Starmer in a hard position though. If he withdraws the whip like Joe suggests then he is going to get hammered with accusations of "purging" regardless of the facts and correctness of the decision.
SB [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 13:53]
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| Ian Lavery MP on 13:54 - Jan 5 with 1482 views | Darth_Koont |
He clearly says he wants everybody to take the vaccine.
Would be interesting to see what he said without the cuts made here. And the framing is as always unhelpful to establishing the actual context.
But no surprise to see the extreme centre on Twitter pushing this far and wide. 😀 |  |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 13:54 - Jan 5 with 1488 views | GavTWTD |
I don't agree with everything he's said, but I have concerns about the vaccine. Doesn't everyone? I will absolutely take the vaccine as soon as I can, but I do fear there's not been as much testing as other drugs.
Not everything is binary. |  |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 13:56 - Jan 5 with 1445 views | itfcjoe |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:51 - Jan 5 by StokieBlue |
It's ill-informed and unscientific bunk.
Puts Starmer in a hard position though. If he withdraws the whip like Joe suggests then he is going to get hammered with accusations of "purging" regardless of the facts and correctness of the decision.
SB [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 13:53]
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I thought this was a good piece about it
https://unherd.com/2021/01/can-labour-be-saved-from-the-hard-left/
Preceding that, Starmer must comprehensively trounce the Left or he must bring them onside. He must make that decision one way or another. And he must do all of this while holding the Government to account during most significant national crisis since the Second World War. The more successful Starmer is in the polls, the more wriggle room he will have. If he starts talking about nation, community and belonging – while offering a radical economic prospectus – the soft Left will go with him if they believe he can beat Boris. That will leave the ‘never Starmers’ isolated; it’s easy to imagine a rump of his left-wing opponents noisily forming a doomed break-away project resembling Ken Loach’s Left Unity project of the Miliband years. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 13:58 - Jan 5 with 1417 views | itfcjoe |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:54 - Jan 5 by Darth_Koont |
He clearly says he wants everybody to take the vaccine.
Would be interesting to see what he said without the cuts made here. And the framing is as always unhelpful to establishing the actual context.
But no surprise to see the extreme centre on Twitter pushing this far and wide. 😀 |
"Why would anyone have any confidence in the vaccines" | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 13:59 - Jan 5 with 1402 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:56 - Jan 5 by itfcjoe |
I thought this was a good piece about it
https://unherd.com/2021/01/can-labour-be-saved-from-the-hard-left/
Preceding that, Starmer must comprehensively trounce the Left or he must bring them onside. He must make that decision one way or another. And he must do all of this while holding the Government to account during most significant national crisis since the Second World War. The more successful Starmer is in the polls, the more wriggle room he will have. If he starts talking about nation, community and belonging – while offering a radical economic prospectus – the soft Left will go with him if they believe he can beat Boris. That will leave the ‘never Starmers’ isolated; it’s easy to imagine a rump of his left-wing opponents noisily forming a doomed break-away project resembling Ken Loach’s Left Unity project of the Miliband years. |
Yeah, the problem in the UK has been the left that haven’t been in power since the 70s ...
Utter lunacy. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 13:59 - Jan 5 with 1401 views | giant_stow |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:54 - Jan 5 by Darth_Koont |
He clearly says he wants everybody to take the vaccine.
Would be interesting to see what he said without the cuts made here. And the framing is as always unhelpful to establishing the actual context.
But no surprise to see the extreme centre on Twitter pushing this far and wide. 😀 |
He does say that, in amongst far more talk about a lack of confidence in it. Cake and eat it messaging. |  |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:01 - Jan 5 with 1395 views | StokieBlue |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:54 - Jan 5 by GavTWTD |
I don't agree with everything he's said, but I have concerns about the vaccine. Doesn't everyone? I will absolutely take the vaccine as soon as I can, but I do fear there's not been as much testing as other drugs.
Not everything is binary. |
I don't have any concerns.
The size of stage 3 trials for these vaccines has actually been far larger than the size of most phase 3 trials.
What this has actually highlighted is the standard process is very slow indeed and can (and will be going forward) sped up quite significantly when required.
SB | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:02 - Jan 5 with 1379 views | LankHenners |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:56 - Jan 5 by itfcjoe |
I thought this was a good piece about it
https://unherd.com/2021/01/can-labour-be-saved-from-the-hard-left/
Preceding that, Starmer must comprehensively trounce the Left or he must bring them onside. He must make that decision one way or another. And he must do all of this while holding the Government to account during most significant national crisis since the Second World War. The more successful Starmer is in the polls, the more wriggle room he will have. If he starts talking about nation, community and belonging – while offering a radical economic prospectus – the soft Left will go with him if they believe he can beat Boris. That will leave the ‘never Starmers’ isolated; it’s easy to imagine a rump of his left-wing opponents noisily forming a doomed break-away project resembling Ken Loach’s Left Unity project of the Miliband years. |
I think it's been pretty clear so far that Starmer's very happy to shun the left of the party so he'll probably be overjoyed that he's got a reason to get rid of another.
Nice to see Bloodworth's still fighting a battle he's already won. |  |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:03 - Jan 5 with 1365 views | StokieBlue |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:54 - Jan 5 by Darth_Koont |
He clearly says he wants everybody to take the vaccine.
Would be interesting to see what he said without the cuts made here. And the framing is as always unhelpful to establishing the actual context.
But no surprise to see the extreme centre on Twitter pushing this far and wide. 😀 |
He does say that.
But he hugely caveats by mispresenting the way the trials have been done with a false equivalence to previous trials and he also says "why would anyone trust a vaccine".
As you say, it would be interesting to get the full clip although I don't see how either of the above can easily be taken out of context.
SB | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:05 - Jan 5 with 1355 views | BlueBadger |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:54 - Jan 5 by GavTWTD |
I don't agree with everything he's said, but I have concerns about the vaccine. Doesn't everyone? I will absolutely take the vaccine as soon as I can, but I do fear there's not been as much testing as other drugs.
Not everything is binary. |
Testing has been incredibly quick because there's been multiple sites working at it, with an unprecedented amount of funding chucked at it meaning that various stages of testing can be effectively run concurrently. The moment, the most common side effect is a sore arm and feeling a bit tired afterwards. Presently, we know of two people in the Uk who's had an anaphylactic reaction. This didn't occur in testing(roughly 40,000 people). In cold hard numbers, your risk of death and/or serious side effects from covid is one in ten. It's presently over 1 in 20,000 in the vaccines. |  |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:06 - Jan 5 with 1335 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:58 - Jan 5 by itfcjoe |
"Why would anyone have any confidence in the vaccines" |
I don’t agree with him there but that’s more out of knowing it’s the only practical way forward.
Gav is right re: nuance though and legitimate concerns even if those need to be overridden for the greater good. Which is a point that I think Lavery is ultimately making.
You surely must realise that the way it’s clipped and then framed as “misinformation” and anti-vaxx doesn’t exactly help here. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:09 - Jan 5 with 1303 views | GavTWTD |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:03 - Jan 5 by StokieBlue |
He does say that.
But he hugely caveats by mispresenting the way the trials have been done with a false equivalence to previous trials and he also says "why would anyone trust a vaccine".
As you say, it would be interesting to get the full clip although I don't see how either of the above can easily be taken out of context.
SB |
He doesn't say "Why would anyone trust a vaccine.".
I really don't like the editing on that. Anyway, I'm bowing out because I'm not getting involved in politics on here! | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:11 - Jan 5 with 1278 views | itfcjoe |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:06 - Jan 5 by Darth_Koont |
I don’t agree with him there but that’s more out of knowing it’s the only practical way forward.
Gav is right re: nuance though and legitimate concerns even if those need to be overridden for the greater good. Which is a point that I think Lavery is ultimately making.
You surely must realise that the way it’s clipped and then framed as “misinformation” and anti-vaxx doesn’t exactly help here. |
No it doesn't help, but these are the exact points that Starmer has come out and said need to be stopped, and that the Govt are trying not to hear.
It's the 'Random Town Remembers' Facebook page full of racism, conspiracy, Brexit propoganda and lies points of it has been rushed through and hasn't been checked properly etc that permeates with the gullible who believe everything on there.
My cleaner is one of those who reads everything from there, "my friends daughter is a nurse and she has said she won't take one on Facebook, and I've read some bits about them being dangerous as testing not done, bla, bla, bla"
An MP should not be saying it, full stop, whatever the context | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:12 - Jan 5 with 1275 views | StokieBlue |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:09 - Jan 5 by GavTWTD |
He doesn't say "Why would anyone trust a vaccine.".
I really don't like the editing on that. Anyway, I'm bowing out because I'm not getting involved in politics on here! |
My mistake, he says:
"Why would anyone have any confidence in a vaccine".
I feel it's essentially the same message though.
I do agree the editing on the video isn't good - as DK said, it would be good to see the full unedited clip.
SB [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 14:13]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:13 - Jan 5 with 1249 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:03 - Jan 5 by StokieBlue |
He does say that.
But he hugely caveats by mispresenting the way the trials have been done with a false equivalence to previous trials and he also says "why would anyone trust a vaccine".
As you say, it would be interesting to get the full clip although I don't see how either of the above can easily be taken out of context.
SB |
Indeed. But I’d be surprised if the full transcript (and without the “anti-vaxx misinformation” framing) doesn’t at least lower the outraged impact.
He could, for example, have been linking people’s perceptions of the vaccine to the government’s already sketchy science and botched measures like Test and Trace.
It’s why accuracy and transparency are always important. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:19 - Jan 5 with 1214 views | GavTWTD |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:12 - Jan 5 by StokieBlue |
My mistake, he says:
"Why would anyone have any confidence in a vaccine".
I feel it's essentially the same message though.
I do agree the editing on the video isn't good - as DK said, it would be good to see the full unedited clip.
SB [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 14:13]
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He doesn't say that either. When you say "a vaccine" you're suggesting he's against ALL vaccines when actually he says "the vaccine" and that it's really important for everyone to get vaccinated. He clearly has an issue with the testing on THIS vaccine.
As Joe says i'm not sure it's right for an MP to give the anti-vaxers any more fuel, but I don't feel he is an anti-vaxer. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:22 - Jan 5 with 1192 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:11 - Jan 5 by itfcjoe |
No it doesn't help, but these are the exact points that Starmer has come out and said need to be stopped, and that the Govt are trying not to hear.
It's the 'Random Town Remembers' Facebook page full of racism, conspiracy, Brexit propoganda and lies points of it has been rushed through and hasn't been checked properly etc that permeates with the gullible who believe everything on there.
My cleaner is one of those who reads everything from there, "my friends daughter is a nurse and she has said she won't take one on Facebook, and I've read some bits about them being dangerous as testing not done, bla, bla, bla"
An MP should not be saying it, full stop, whatever the context |
Well, I guess will be more able to know any of that when we see a transcript or the unedited clip.
I’ll see if I can find it. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:29 - Jan 5 with 1167 views | itfcjoe |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:22 - Jan 5 by Darth_Koont |
Well, I guess will be more able to know any of that when we see a transcript or the unedited clip.
I’ll see if I can find it. |
I had a look, and looks like it is something just leaked to Guido so doubt one will be out there unless Lavery thinks it can clear him and he releases it | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:29 - Jan 5 with 1162 views | tractordownsouth |
It's Guido so would need to take the editing with a pinch of salt and it's good he said he wants people to take it but stating he has concerns over the vaccine is deeply irresponsibile. |  |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:31 - Jan 5 with 1152 views | DanTheMan |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:22 - Jan 5 by Darth_Koont |
Well, I guess will be more able to know any of that when we see a transcript or the unedited clip.
I’ll see if I can find it. |
Think I've found the video, although not where the clip is.
https://fb.watch/2Qcon6H2tg/
EDIT: Not found the first part about trusting the vaccine but second slip is just over 4 minutes in.
EDIT 2: The first part is afterwards, around 5 minutes. There isn't too much additional context but his justification is based around what he perceives as the changes they made to do with the dosages and the spacing between them. [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 14:45]
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