| Hurst > Lambert 02:12 - Feb 20 with 2430 views | kizaitfc |
Atleast Hurst had a plan and structure although it failed.
What is Lambert plan, come next season 5 loan players return back to their parent club.
Chambers, Skuse and Ward close to retirement.
Nolan, Jackson and probably Downes and Dozzell on their way out.
I see no plan! |  |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 07:38 - Feb 20 with 1180 views | jayessess |
Not even really a contest for me, Lambert's the worst coach we've ever had by a distance. Sure, Hurst (and the owner) had an absolute disaster that Summer, but the sustained failure under Lambert is something else. |  |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 07:43 - Feb 20 with 1172 views | itfcjoe |
His plan is now to get sacked, fairly obviously.
Hurst did so much damage to this club in such a short time though, yes he’d have been no worse than Lambert but he’d have been no better either as was miles out of his depth....and look at this record since |  |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 07:46 - Feb 20 with 1161 views | BudapestByBlimp |
His plan is to:
Negotiate the best pay-off possible.
Take up punditry or consultancy (he has played for some big, big clubs you know) |  | | |
| Hurst > Lambert on 07:51 - Feb 20 with 1146 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 07:43 - Feb 20 by itfcjoe |
His plan is now to get sacked, fairly obviously.
Hurst did so much damage to this club in such a short time though, yes he’d have been no worse than Lambert but he’d have been no better either as was miles out of his depth....and look at this record since |
Thing is, yeah, Hurst did a lot of damage to the club in that one Summer, but one Summer doesn't kill a club. It's the sustained failure, compounding the bad decisions from that period, that's killing us. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 07:51 - Feb 20 with 1147 views | Herbivore |
I think people are forgetting just how badly Hurst fooked us over in a comparatively short space of time. He tore up a squad that had just finished 12th in the Championship and filled it with League 1 and 2 players. He managed to alienate most of the players here and turned Bart from arguably the best keeper in the league to a full blown Will Norris more or less overnight. In the space of 4 months he set us back several years with the decisions that he made and the shape that he left us in.
Lambert is a terrible manager, can't seem to coach or set a side up. He's also, if we're honest, a massive arse. Poor man management, doesn't seem to care about the job and hasn't for some time. How he's still here is baffling. But I would still argue that the damage done by Hurst in his short tenure is at least on a par with it not worse than the damage Lambert has done in trying and failing to rebuild us.
That he's been here failing for longer is a huge mistake on Evans' part, but I would say any new manager coming in should be able to get us back to where Lambert picked us up - the worst side in the Championship - pretty easily. Certainly it's an easier task than taking the squad Hurst left back to the middle of the Championship, for me. |  |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 07:55 - Feb 20 with 1124 views | textbackup |
| Hurst > Lambert on 07:51 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
I think people are forgetting just how badly Hurst fooked us over in a comparatively short space of time. He tore up a squad that had just finished 12th in the Championship and filled it with League 1 and 2 players. He managed to alienate most of the players here and turned Bart from arguably the best keeper in the league to a full blown Will Norris more or less overnight. In the space of 4 months he set us back several years with the decisions that he made and the shape that he left us in.
Lambert is a terrible manager, can't seem to coach or set a side up. He's also, if we're honest, a massive arse. Poor man management, doesn't seem to care about the job and hasn't for some time. How he's still here is baffling. But I would still argue that the damage done by Hurst in his short tenure is at least on a par with it not worse than the damage Lambert has done in trying and failing to rebuild us.
That he's been here failing for longer is a huge mistake on Evans' part, but I would say any new manager coming in should be able to get us back to where Lambert picked us up - the worst side in the Championship - pretty easily. Certainly it's an easier task than taking the squad Hurst left back to the middle of the Championship, for me. |
1 man employed both of them, and let them behave in the way they did, without stepping in... |  |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 07:57 - Feb 20 with 1115 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 07:51 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
I think people are forgetting just how badly Hurst fooked us over in a comparatively short space of time. He tore up a squad that had just finished 12th in the Championship and filled it with League 1 and 2 players. He managed to alienate most of the players here and turned Bart from arguably the best keeper in the league to a full blown Will Norris more or less overnight. In the space of 4 months he set us back several years with the decisions that he made and the shape that he left us in.
Lambert is a terrible manager, can't seem to coach or set a side up. He's also, if we're honest, a massive arse. Poor man management, doesn't seem to care about the job and hasn't for some time. How he's still here is baffling. But I would still argue that the damage done by Hurst in his short tenure is at least on a par with it not worse than the damage Lambert has done in trying and failing to rebuild us.
That he's been here failing for longer is a huge mistake on Evans' part, but I would say any new manager coming in should be able to get us back to where Lambert picked us up - the worst side in the Championship - pretty easily. Certainly it's an easier task than taking the squad Hurst left back to the middle of the Championship, for me. |
We've seen clubs completely transform their playing staff over the course of the Summer. The team currently top of the league basically recruited a new first team this year. I don't buy that the Hurst damage should've been as terminal as it's proved to be and it's not equivalent to dragging us into an extended period in the 3rd tier, despite being massively over-resourced. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 08:00 - Feb 20 with 1092 views | Guthrum |
| Hurst > Lambert on 07:51 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
I think people are forgetting just how badly Hurst fooked us over in a comparatively short space of time. He tore up a squad that had just finished 12th in the Championship and filled it with League 1 and 2 players. He managed to alienate most of the players here and turned Bart from arguably the best keeper in the league to a full blown Will Norris more or less overnight. In the space of 4 months he set us back several years with the decisions that he made and the shape that he left us in.
Lambert is a terrible manager, can't seem to coach or set a side up. He's also, if we're honest, a massive arse. Poor man management, doesn't seem to care about the job and hasn't for some time. How he's still here is baffling. But I would still argue that the damage done by Hurst in his short tenure is at least on a par with it not worse than the damage Lambert has done in trying and failing to rebuild us.
That he's been here failing for longer is a huge mistake on Evans' part, but I would say any new manager coming in should be able to get us back to where Lambert picked us up - the worst side in the Championship - pretty easily. Certainly it's an easier task than taking the squad Hurst left back to the middle of the Championship, for me. |
Additionally, Hurst had no clue on team lineup, formation or tactics most of the time. A lot of the games were aimless shambles, with inexplicable chopping and changing of personnel in between. He was really no better than Lambert in that repect. |  |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 08:13 - Feb 20 with 1020 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 07:57 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
We've seen clubs completely transform their playing staff over the course of the Summer. The team currently top of the league basically recruited a new first team this year. I don't buy that the Hurst damage should've been as terminal as it's proved to be and it's not equivalent to dragging us into an extended period in the 3rd tier, despite being massively over-resourced. |
You honestly think we could have built a midtable Championship squad easily on our budget with what Hurst left us? You can't compare League 1 to the Championship, sides at this level have large turnover and generally spend no money. That's not the case in the Championship. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 08:14 - Feb 20 with 1014 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 07:55 - Feb 20 by textbackup |
1 man employed both of them, and let them behave in the way they did, without stepping in... |
Evans is hopeless, no argument from me there. He should have reined Hurst in for sure and should have sacked Lambert over a year ago. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 08:26 - Feb 20 with 992 views | townblue |
| Hurst > Lambert on 08:00 - Feb 20 by Guthrum |
Additionally, Hurst had no clue on team lineup, formation or tactics most of the time. A lot of the games were aimless shambles, with inexplicable chopping and changing of personnel in between. He was really no better than Lambert in that repect. |
He started with a very settled system and stuck to it rigidly for the first few games before desperately changing it to try and find something that worked once the losing streak started.
I do wonder what would have happened if we had won one of the first few games and been able to keep his plan. The bad streak started from day one and meant the negatively took hold from the start. The players clearer didn't like him after Mick but if we had won a couple of games that wouldn't have meant as much. |  | | |
| Hurst > Lambert on 08:27 - Feb 20 with 985 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 08:13 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
You honestly think we could have built a midtable Championship squad easily on our budget with what Hurst left us? You can't compare League 1 to the Championship, sides at this level have large turnover and generally spend no money. That's not the case in the Championship. |
Don't get me wrong, I think Hurst did plenty of damage and it would not have been easy to fix. I just think the 2+ years that followed, where that damage was allowed to ossify has left more permanent damage on the club. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 08:33 - Feb 20 with 967 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 08:27 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
Don't get me wrong, I think Hurst did plenty of damage and it would not have been easy to fix. I just think the 2+ years that followed, where that damage was allowed to ossify has left more permanent damage on the club. |
Not sure I agree. I don't think our squad is especially weaker now than when Hurst left and even a mediocre manager could get this group of players back into the Championship. Compare that with getting the squad Hurst left, rock bottom of the Championship, up to midtable in the second tier and I think that looks a much bigger challenge. We've essentially wasted at least a year under Lambert, possibly two years if things continue, but Hurst came in like a wrecking ball and set us back a very long way. Lambert seems worse because we're currently stuck with him and it's really sh1t, but taking a step back and looking at the damage they managed to inflict I find it hard to look past Hurst as being the bigger disaster here. [Post edited 20 Feb 2021 8:37]
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| Hurst > Lambert on 08:35 - Feb 20 with 957 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Hurst > Lambert on 08:27 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
Don't get me wrong, I think Hurst did plenty of damage and it would not have been easy to fix. I just think the 2+ years that followed, where that damage was allowed to ossify has left more permanent damage on the club. |
No. The permanent damage was caused by Hurst. Lambert's just faffed around with it for two years. He hasn't actually caused any permanent damage and I expect to see us improve when (if) someone competent is brought in. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 08:37 - Feb 20 with 946 views | Wickets |
Just wish some would not keep saying Downes and Dozzell are on their way out . Yes they are decent players in the makeing but they are not the next best things clubs are not queing up to buy them ! |  | | |
| Hurst > Lambert on 08:39 - Feb 20 with 936 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 08:37 - Feb 20 by Wickets |
Just wish some would not keep saying Downes and Dozzell are on their way out . Yes they are decent players in the makeing but they are not the next best things clubs are not queing up to buy them ! |
Downes was subject of bids from Palace in the summer. I expect there will be interest in him and Dozzell if we don't go up and at least one of them will likely be sold. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 08:49 - Feb 20 with 908 views | Guthrum |
| Hurst > Lambert on 08:26 - Feb 20 by townblue |
He started with a very settled system and stuck to it rigidly for the first few games before desperately changing it to try and find something that worked once the losing streak started.
I do wonder what would have happened if we had won one of the first few games and been able to keep his plan. The bad streak started from day one and meant the negatively took hold from the start. The players clearer didn't like him after Mick but if we had won a couple of games that wouldn't have meant as much. |
Problem being, it was a settled system which didn't work. The best we could manage were draws, not capable of achieving the wins you speak of. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 08:56 - Feb 20 with 896 views | townblue |
| Hurst > Lambert on 08:49 - Feb 20 by Guthrum |
Problem being, it was a settled system which didn't work. The best we could manage were draws, not capable of achieving the wins you speak of. |
Yeah, probably. It doesn't take much to scrape a result and go on a little run though. I just think things went so badly from day one that we never had a chance to see what could have happened. Obviously we couldn't keep him after that start though. | | | |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:00 - Feb 20 with 890 views | Steve_M |
| Hurst > Lambert on 07:51 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
I think people are forgetting just how badly Hurst fooked us over in a comparatively short space of time. He tore up a squad that had just finished 12th in the Championship and filled it with League 1 and 2 players. He managed to alienate most of the players here and turned Bart from arguably the best keeper in the league to a full blown Will Norris more or less overnight. In the space of 4 months he set us back several years with the decisions that he made and the shape that he left us in.
Lambert is a terrible manager, can't seem to coach or set a side up. He's also, if we're honest, a massive arse. Poor man management, doesn't seem to care about the job and hasn't for some time. How he's still here is baffling. But I would still argue that the damage done by Hurst in his short tenure is at least on a par with it not worse than the damage Lambert has done in trying and failing to rebuild us.
That he's been here failing for longer is a huge mistake on Evans' part, but I would say any new manager coming in should be able to get us back to where Lambert picked us up - the worst side in the Championship - pretty easily. Certainly it's an easier task than taking the squad Hurst left back to the middle of the Championship, for me. |
Yep, Hurst’s plan wasn’t a very good one. The idea of a team that was well organised fell apart 20 minutes into his first match and were were clearly in trouble from his second one away at Rotherham (although many were desperate to pretend otherwise).
I’m not sure if we’ll ever recover from the damage he did. [Post edited 20 Feb 2021 10:12]
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:02 - Feb 20 with 874 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 08:56 - Feb 20 by townblue |
Yeah, probably. It doesn't take much to scrape a result and go on a little run though. I just think things went so badly from day one that we never had a chance to see what could have happened. Obviously we couldn't keep him after that start though. |
Given that he'd alienated half the squad, I'm not sure a spawny win would really have made a huge difference. The quality just wasn't there either. I remember watching those early games and wondering where the goals were going to come from. We were utterly toothless. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:04 - Feb 20 with 862 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 08:33 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Not sure I agree. I don't think our squad is especially weaker now than when Hurst left and even a mediocre manager could get this group of players back into the Championship. Compare that with getting the squad Hurst left, rock bottom of the Championship, up to midtable in the second tier and I think that looks a much bigger challenge. We've essentially wasted at least a year under Lambert, possibly two years if things continue, but Hurst came in like a wrecking ball and set us back a very long way. Lambert seems worse because we're currently stuck with him and it's really sh1t, but taking a step back and looking at the damage they managed to inflict I find it hard to look past Hurst as being the bigger disaster here. [Post edited 20 Feb 2021 8:37]
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In revenue terms, spending 2 extra seasons in League 1 will cost us 5 times in revenue what Hurst spent on substandard players. That loss alone dwarfs what we actually spent bringing Webster, McGoldrick, Garner and Waghorn to the club. IMO that's more damaging.
Then you factor in what a quick promotion back to the Championship would've done to the value of our playing squad (both in terms of recouping the value of Hurst flops and in terms of the appreciating value of young players) then it's even more catastrophic. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:05 - Feb 20 with 859 views | Guthrum |
| Hurst > Lambert on 07:57 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
We've seen clubs completely transform their playing staff over the course of the Summer. The team currently top of the league basically recruited a new first team this year. I don't buy that the Hurst damage should've been as terminal as it's proved to be and it's not equivalent to dragging us into an extended period in the 3rd tier, despite being massively over-resourced. |
It's not just replacing the squad, but who you replace them with.
We lost Waghorn, Garner and (the admittedly often injured) McGoldrick and swapped them for Ellis Harrison, Kayden Jackson and bringing Freddie Sears in from the cold - who scored precisely one League goal between them during the entirety of Hurst's tenure. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:08 - Feb 20 with 842 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:04 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
In revenue terms, spending 2 extra seasons in League 1 will cost us 5 times in revenue what Hurst spent on substandard players. That loss alone dwarfs what we actually spent bringing Webster, McGoldrick, Garner and Waghorn to the club. IMO that's more damaging.
Then you factor in what a quick promotion back to the Championship would've done to the value of our playing squad (both in terms of recouping the value of Hurst flops and in terms of the appreciating value of young players) then it's even more catastrophic. |
Our outgoings as a League 1 side are also significantly lower than they would be in the Championship. I think you're clutching at straws here to be honest. If we make a change now a competent new manager could still get this squad into the play offs this year and potentially back up to the Championship. The mess Hurst left was not so easy to fix. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:11 - Feb 20 with 830 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:05 - Feb 20 by Guthrum |
It's not just replacing the squad, but who you replace them with.
We lost Waghorn, Garner and (the admittedly often injured) McGoldrick and swapped them for Ellis Harrison, Kayden Jackson and bringing Freddie Sears in from the cold - who scored precisely one League goal between them during the entirety of Hurst's tenure. |
But then, let's look at those 3.
McGoldrick was signed on a free, as a Nottingham Forest discard.
Garner and Waghorn signed for 6-figure fees because Rangers didn't want them.
That wasn't a squad that required megabucks to assemble. Why should it have been so impossible to rectify? | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:14 - Feb 20 with 808 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:11 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
But then, let's look at those 3.
McGoldrick was signed on a free, as a Nottingham Forest discard.
Garner and Waghorn signed for 6-figure fees because Rangers didn't want them.
That wasn't a squad that required megabucks to assemble. Why should it have been so impossible to rectify? |
Because manager's with MM's ability to pick up players on the cheap and improve them don't grow on trees. | |
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