| Hurst > Lambert 02:12 - Feb 20 with 2429 views | kizaitfc |
Atleast Hurst had a plan and structure although it failed.
What is Lambert plan, come next season 5 loan players return back to their parent club.
Chambers, Skuse and Ward close to retirement.
Nolan, Jackson and probably Downes and Dozzell on their way out.
I see no plan! |  |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:14 - Feb 20 with 1139 views | Guthrum |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:00 - Feb 20 by Steve_M |
Yep, Hurst’s plan wasn’t a very good one. The idea of a team that was well organised fell apart 20 minutes into his first match and were were clearly in trouble from his second one away at Rotherham (although many were desperate to pretend otherwise).
I’m not sure if we’ll ever recover from the damage he did. [Post edited 20 Feb 2021 10:12]
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Between him and Keane, who similarly turned us from a decent Championship team to perennial strugglers in just 18 months. Two serious blows. |  |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:19 - Feb 20 with 1130 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:08 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Our outgoings as a League 1 side are also significantly lower than they would be in the Championship. I think you're clutching at straws here to be honest. If we make a change now a competent new manager could still get this squad into the play offs this year and potentially back up to the Championship. The mess Hurst left was not so easy to fix. |
Our outgoings are lower because the player budget is lower, which affects the quality of player we can bring in and hampers us improving the squad.
I don't see how any of this is "clutching at straws". Hurst did plenty of damage. Three seasons in League One will do far more damage. I think it's bizarre to think the loss of 4 players outweighs that. |  |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:20 - Feb 20 with 1127 views | Guthrum |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:11 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
But then, let's look at those 3.
McGoldrick was signed on a free, as a Nottingham Forest discard.
Garner and Waghorn signed for 6-figure fees because Rangers didn't want them.
That wasn't a squad that required megabucks to assemble. Why should it have been so impossible to rectify? |
Because Hurst had the wrong ideas on recruitment and couldn't keep the decent players on board.
Don't think Lambert is much better in that respect, but he was trying to reconstruct something which had already been trashed (with no transfer window for the first two months of his tenure). Who wants to join a side which is so clearly going down? | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:22 - Feb 20 with 1118 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:14 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Because manager's with MM's ability to pick up players on the cheap and improve them don't grow on trees. |
There are plenty of players thriving in the Championship right now signed under similar circumstances. Mick McCarthy is not the only coach in the world. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:26 - Feb 20 with 1103 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:19 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
Our outgoings are lower because the player budget is lower, which affects the quality of player we can bring in and hampers us improving the squad.
I don't see how any of this is "clutching at straws". Hurst did plenty of damage. Three seasons in League One will do far more damage. I think it's bizarre to think the loss of 4 players outweighs that. |
Outgoings are lower because we have largely the same squad but are paying them less. Some of the signings we've made since being relegated don't suggest we've been hugely hampered by our budget. The fee we paid for KVY would be a record fee for half the sides in this league. We outbid Championship sides to bring Norwood in. The four loanees we've signed this month would be out of the financial reach of most of our competitors.
Have to agree to disagree. I don't think you've made a very strong case here. |  |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:28 - Feb 20 with 1092 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:22 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
There are plenty of players thriving in the Championship right now signed under similar circumstances. Mick McCarthy is not the only coach in the world. |
Which players are you thinking of and which manager do you think we could have got who could have come in and permanently signed players that would have got us back it midtable in the Championship in that one January transfer window? Genuinely curious. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:29 - Feb 20 with 1089 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:26 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Outgoings are lower because we have largely the same squad but are paying them less. Some of the signings we've made since being relegated don't suggest we've been hugely hampered by our budget. The fee we paid for KVY would be a record fee for half the sides in this league. We outbid Championship sides to bring Norwood in. The four loanees we've signed this month would be out of the financial reach of most of our competitors.
Have to agree to disagree. I don't think you've made a very strong case here. |
It's stronger than your case for 4-player-armageddon. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:30 - Feb 20 with 1087 views | Beckets |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:20 - Feb 20 by Guthrum |
Because Hurst had the wrong ideas on recruitment and couldn't keep the decent players on board.
Don't think Lambert is much better in that respect, but he was trying to reconstruct something which had already been trashed (with no transfer window for the first two months of his tenure). Who wants to join a side which is so clearly going down? |
Here we are arguing the toss about which of our last 2 managers is the worst in our history and the man who appointed both is most likely about to appoint another one. Surely even he couldn’t appoint somebody worse than these two or could he.... |  | | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:32 - Feb 20 with 1083 views | Harlestonblue |
| Hurst > Lambert on 07:51 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
I think people are forgetting just how badly Hurst fooked us over in a comparatively short space of time. He tore up a squad that had just finished 12th in the Championship and filled it with League 1 and 2 players. He managed to alienate most of the players here and turned Bart from arguably the best keeper in the league to a full blown Will Norris more or less overnight. In the space of 4 months he set us back several years with the decisions that he made and the shape that he left us in.
Lambert is a terrible manager, can't seem to coach or set a side up. He's also, if we're honest, a massive arse. Poor man management, doesn't seem to care about the job and hasn't for some time. How he's still here is baffling. But I would still argue that the damage done by Hurst in his short tenure is at least on a par with it not worse than the damage Lambert has done in trying and failing to rebuild us.
That he's been here failing for longer is a huge mistake on Evans' part, but I would say any new manager coming in should be able to get us back to where Lambert picked us up - the worst side in the Championship - pretty easily. Certainly it's an easier task than taking the squad Hurst left back to the middle of the Championship, for me. |
Agree. Well said.
2 really bad mamagers in succession, both earning £500,000 a year plus. No doubt Hurst secured a handsome pay off for his abject failure and probably Lambert will too.
Sickening. | | | |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:33 - Feb 20 with 1082 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:29 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
It's stronger than your case for 4-player-armageddon. |
It really isn't. Your argument is all over the shop. It's clear for anyone who follows football to see that Hurst got rid of a significant chunk of quality from our squad and replaced it with players that weren't good enough. He took a midtable squad and turned us into the worst side in the league in just 4 months. The evidence is all there. You are making vague claims about financial impact, which you've tried to back up with claims that don't really stack up to reality. That's what's happened here. But agree to disagree. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:42 - Feb 20 with 1066 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:28 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Which players are you thinking of and which manager do you think we could have got who could have come in and permanently signed players that would have got us back it midtable in the Championship in that one January transfer window? Genuinely curious. |
I don't think any manager could've restored us to midtable in that one January window and haven't claimed that.
There's a bunch of players signed for 6-figures in the Championship. Nick Powell signed for free and he's one of the top-scoring midfielders in the division. Barnsley, Millwall, Preston are all mid-table and most of their squads fulfil that criteria. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:43 - Feb 20 with 1064 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:42 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
I don't think any manager could've restored us to midtable in that one January window and haven't claimed that.
There's a bunch of players signed for 6-figures in the Championship. Nick Powell signed for free and he's one of the top-scoring midfielders in the division. Barnsley, Millwall, Preston are all mid-table and most of their squads fulfil that criteria. |
So then you agree that Hurst managed to destroy us in that one summer. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:43 - Feb 20 with 1064 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:33 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
It really isn't. Your argument is all over the shop. It's clear for anyone who follows football to see that Hurst got rid of a significant chunk of quality from our squad and replaced it with players that weren't good enough. He took a midtable squad and turned us into the worst side in the league in just 4 months. The evidence is all there. You are making vague claims about financial impact, which you've tried to back up with claims that don't really stack up to reality. That's what's happened here. But agree to disagree. |
I agree to disagree with your assessment of my argument. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:45 - Feb 20 with 1057 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:43 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
So then you agree that Hurst managed to destroy us in that one summer. |
Your reading comprehension is not good. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:46 - Feb 20 with 1055 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:45 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
Your reading comprehension is not good. |
I don't think that's the issue here. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:50 - Feb 20 with 1043 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:46 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
I don't think that's the issue here. |
It must be or you would have caught the other half dozen times on the thread where I agreed that Paul Hurst did great damage to the football club. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:53 - Feb 20 with 1033 views | Darth_Koont |
Agree that Hurst was more damaging given the time he was here. But really Lambert has just continued the direction of travel and non-strategy set by Hurst.
“Lamburst” is our worst ever manager. |  |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:54 - Feb 20 with 1031 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:50 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
It must be or you would have caught the other half dozen times on the thread where I agreed that Paul Hurst did great damage to the football club. |
Sure, but you then flippantly say things like "4 player armageddon" as though actually it wasn't all that bad. And the damage you attribute to Lambert is essentially all hypothetical and yet you talk that up as being worse than the damage Hurst inflicted. Perhaps you might want to read your own posts, mate. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 09:58 - Feb 20 with 1022 views | jayessess |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:54 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Sure, but you then flippantly say things like "4 player armageddon" as though actually it wasn't all that bad. And the damage you attribute to Lambert is essentially all hypothetical and yet you talk that up as being worse than the damage Hurst inflicted. Perhaps you might want to read your own posts, mate. |
How is 3 seasons in League One and £10ms of revenue loss, "hypothetical"? We're living it. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 10:09 - Feb 20 with 1006 views | MattinLondon |
Arguing over Hurst or Lambert is like asking what is better - diarrhoea or vomiting? [Post edited 20 Feb 2021 10:09]
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| Hurst > Lambert on 10:15 - Feb 20 with 997 views | Herbivore |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:58 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
How is 3 seasons in League One and £10ms of revenue loss, "hypothetical"? We're living it. |
For one, it's not 3 seasons in League 1 yet and might not be if we bin off Lambert soon. And as has been explained, whilst our revenues are down so is our expenditure, so that £10m of revenue loss is massively offset by a reduced wage bill. And your concerns that reduced expenditure means we can't improve the squad isn't borne out by the fact we've signed players in every window in League 1, many of whom would be unaffordable for the bulk of our rivals.
The fact that a competent manager coming in now could potentially get us back to where we were when Lambert came in within a fairly short timescale, whilst a competent manager almost certainly couldn't have taken us back to where we were when Hurst took over within a similar timescale would seem to suggest that Hurst managed to inflict more damage. [Post edited 20 Feb 2021 10:29]
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| Hurst > Lambert on 10:43 - Feb 20 with 975 views | southnorfolkblue |
| Hurst > Lambert on 07:57 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
We've seen clubs completely transform their playing staff over the course of the Summer. The team currently top of the league basically recruited a new first team this year. I don't buy that the Hurst damage should've been as terminal as it's proved to be and it's not equivalent to dragging us into an extended period in the 3rd tier, despite being massively over-resourced. |
You’re talking a different level though. It’s one thing to do that in League 1, quite another to do it in the Championship. Hurst ripped the guts out of a side that was a comfortable Championship side and overnight turned it into one of the worst sides in that division in living memory.
Yes Lambert should have done better but the damage that he inherited was massive. | |
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| Hurst > Lambert on 12:22 - Feb 20 with 944 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Hurst > Lambert on 09:14 - Feb 20 by Guthrum |
Between him and Keane, who similarly turned us from a decent Championship team to perennial strugglers in just 18 months. Two serious blows. |
Absolutely. Keane and Hurst did the most lasting damage. Jewell and Lambert were the hapless chancers who thought they could fix what came before but couldn't. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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