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Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 08:37 - Mar 12 by StokieBlue
It's worth nothing that the example you are citing of the BLM protests was back in June 2020, that was during the summer when cases were very low (a fraction of what we have even now after lockdown) and the B117 UK variant didn't exist (it now accounts for 98% of all C19 in the UK).
With regards to the protest, how does everyone get to the field is somewhere like London? How many will share cars? How many will pack out public transport? How many will have a sneaky meetup for a tea or drink afterwards to recover from the cold?
It's also going to be far larger than some people standing in one field, it's going to be everywhere because the cause is a good one.
I don't think you can take the act of protesting in isolation, the full suite of activities need to be considered. Given this perhaps a different form of protest could be considered?
I haven't considered what form that protest could take and something should be done, nobody is questioning that, I am just not convinced by mass gatherings in centralised locations given where we are and the progress that has been made.
SB
First point - you're wrong, June 6th deaths (BLM protests) were 169 compared to 163 yesterday. And in June we hadn't vaccinated 1/3 of the population.
If people are worried about how people travel to a vigil, then the police should be facilitating multiple vigils whereever people wish to hold them, so people can avoid traveling. Just like in the summer when they facilitated the Ipswich BLM protest meaning people didn't have to travel to London for a larger protest.
Anyone arguing that standing in a field with a placard in dangerous is talking rubbish. So the answer is simple, faciltate those that wish to. Job done.
Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 08:41 - Mar 12 by Pinewoodblue
The rules currently in force are different from those in force last summer. Like it, or not, it is unlawful to leave home for any reason other than those approved.
Just suppose 10,000 people decided to hold a socially distanced vigil on Clapham Common. How do they get there without being in close contact with others in a confined space?
They could just pretend they are off to do some essential shopping, followed by an essential take away maybe!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 08:43 - Mar 12 by homer_123
Ipswich is very different to London - the likihood is many more people will attend. As Stokie has asked, how will people get their? Sharing public transport, sharing cars etc.
We should be able to gather and protest and air our grievances, I won't ever question that. Right now, I do question the sensibility given Covid and trying to get that under control.
No easy decisions here, again.
There's quite an easy decision. Work with those organisers to make the vigil as CV secure as humanly possible. Just as the Suffolk police did for the BLM protest in June.
It's going to happen irrespective so why not do everything in your power to facilitate it and make it safe?
Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 08:45 - Mar 12 by bluelagos
First point - you're wrong, June 6th deaths (BLM protests) were 169 compared to 163 yesterday. And in June we hadn't vaccinated 1/3 of the population.
If people are worried about how people travel to a vigil, then the police should be facilitating multiple vigils whereever people wish to hold them, so people can avoid traveling. Just like in the summer when they facilitated the Ipswich BLM protest meaning people didn't have to travel to London for a larger protest.
Anyone arguing that standing in a field with a placard in dangerous is talking rubbish. So the answer is simple, faciltate those that wish to. Job done.
Deaths were 143 (the rolling average was 169) - that is higher than I remember but that was also with the less transmissible version of C19. I feel my points around the variant are still valid.
I don't think it's as easy as saying "facilitate" multiple protests. Multiple protests are already planned and I am sure there will be many which are not discussed with the police. Your points seem to be centred around protests outside London, inside London people still need to travel to the centralised location(s), probably using public transport as that's the option available to most.
Not everything can be looked at from a Suffolk-centric point of view. I do agree that people should be able to protest in a CV safe manner but it's also right for people to highlight concerns around those protests so that they can be addressed and worked out.
SB
[Post edited 12 Mar 2021 8:54]
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Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 08:57 - Mar 12 with 711 views
Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 08:52 - Mar 12 by StokieBlue
Deaths were 143 (the rolling average was 169) - that is higher than I remember but that was also with the less transmissible version of C19. I feel my points around the variant are still valid.
I don't think it's as easy as saying "facilitate" multiple protests. Multiple protests are already planned and I am sure there will be many which are not discussed with the police. Your points seem to be centred around protests outside London, inside London people still need to travel to the centralised location(s), probably using public transport as that's the option available to most.
Not everything can be looked at from a Suffolk-centric point of view. I do agree that people should be able to protest in a CV safe manner but it's also right for people to highlight concerns around those protests so that they can be addressed and worked out.
SB
[Post edited 12 Mar 2021 8:54]
My point is that the Met police are going to court to stop women from holding a vigil rather than working with said women to make the vigil as CV safe as is humanly possible.
That strikes me not just as bad optics, but as an affront to the many people who are utterly disgusted by the continuing rates of violence against women perpetrated by men.
It is perfectly possible for the police to engage constructively. They did so with the BLM protests and should do so once again.
Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 08:57 - Mar 12 by bluelagos
My point is that the Met police are going to court to stop women from holding a vigil rather than working with said women to make the vigil as CV safe as is humanly possible.
That strikes me not just as bad optics, but as an affront to the many people who are utterly disgusted by the continuing rates of violence against women perpetrated by men.
It is perfectly possible for the police to engage constructively. They did so with the BLM protests and should do so once again.
I don't disagree that the police should engage (which is seems like they did initially so it would be interesting to see why they changed their minds).
I do think that regardless of the setup, it will involve a lot more people on London public transport which is a concern and that is why the rules are in place.
Hopefully some form of mutually acceptable compromise can be reached which is as safe as can be for those travelling to attend whilst also making the important points that need to be raised and discussed.
SB
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Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 09:06 - Mar 12 with 683 views
Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 09:04 - Mar 12 by StokieBlue
I don't disagree that the police should engage (which is seems like they did initially so it would be interesting to see why they changed their minds).
I do think that regardless of the setup, it will involve a lot more people on London public transport which is a concern and that is why the rules are in place.
Hopefully some form of mutually acceptable compromise can be reached which is as safe as can be for those travelling to attend whilst also making the important points that need to be raised and discussed.
Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 07:41 - Mar 12 by tivo
Why? We're at the tail end of a pandemic ffs.
I think you're ***** for thinking it's ok to potentially go out and start spreading something we've finally got under control and are weeks/months away from being free of.
This post has been edited by an administrator
Why edit this post admin?
The guy stated that I was an arsehole. His abuse was there for all to see.
I think his comments should remain unedited given that I stand by my comments and reckon his state more about him than they do about me.
Freedom of speech and all that, even for people who think I am an arsehole :-)
Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 08:43 - Mar 12 by homer_123
Ipswich is very different to London - the likihood is many more people will attend. As Stokie has asked, how will people get their? Sharing public transport, sharing cars etc.
We should be able to gather and protest and air our grievances, I won't ever question that. Right now, I do question the sensibility given Covid and trying to get that under control.
No easy decisions here, again.
The right to protest peacefully is an important part of a free democratic society, but permitting large demonstrations when most of us are fed up with having been locked down for months and we are being told about all sorts of rules about social distancing that must still be followed would be incredibly stupid.
Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 09:55 - Mar 12 by Radlett_blue
The right to protest peacefully is an important part of a free democratic society, but permitting large demonstrations when most of us are fed up with having been locked down for months and we are being told about all sorts of rules about social distancing that must still be followed would be incredibly stupid.
Imagine, all those socially distanced people standing outside, wearing masks and holding placards...
Wondering why there wasn't a surge after the June BLM protests? Almost as if holding a CV secure gathering is perfectly safe.
It's not just about the science. If it was, golf wouldn't have been banned, for example. But people playing golf during lockdown wouldn't look good and if the government want people to obey guidelines - which will be an important part of moving slowly out of lockdown - seeing thousands standing shoulder to shoulder would not be a good look. I felt the same about allowing the BLM protests, but presumably the government decided that was too much of a hot potato.
Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 10:08 - Mar 12 by Radlett_blue
It's not just about the science. If it was, golf wouldn't have been banned, for example. But people playing golf during lockdown wouldn't look good and if the government want people to obey guidelines - which will be an important part of moving slowly out of lockdown - seeing thousands standing shoulder to shoulder would not be a good look. I felt the same about allowing the BLM protests, but presumably the government decided that was too much of a hot potato.
Yet you are unable to answer the point that there wasn't a spike after the BLM protests in June. Or when thousands of people sat on beaches.
IF it was dangerous to stand around outside, I'd agree with you. All the scientific evidence is that it isn't.
Met police challenge Derbysshire police on 10:29 - Mar 12 by eireblue
This maybe a bit, what about terry, but my wife can reasonably work from home, she did in the first lockdown for a few weeks.
Until her bosses, decided they didn’t trust people working from home and so made the work place CV safe.
She could attend such a CV safe demonstration, getting there in a safe way, and then get arrested.
But will the police arrest employers that force people to work together in buildings.
Anyhoo, some Met Police officers earlier,
This is the flaw with covid. We try to apply human rational to a virus.
Meeting 2 mates for a cycle in the county is illegal but any number of people congregating in offices who could work from home because someone has spent £30 on hand sanitiser makes it covid secure.
Because of this you'll have some businesses who could be doing exactly the same thing, one strictly enforcing WFH because they are concerned about staff welfare and another business making everyone trapse in and sit at desks because they are worried about slacking.
Watching the angry scenes in Clapham... (Live on the Independent)
Almost as if the Met have royally fcked up by not engaging and ensuring the stewarding etc. was in place to ensure the protest could be done in a as safe a manner as possible.
And they just seem to have made a lot of angry people a whole lot more angry.
Met police challenge Derbyshire police on 19:20 - Mar 13 by bluelagos
Watching the angry scenes in Clapham... (Live on the Independent)
Almost as if the Met have royally fcked up by not engaging and ensuring the stewarding etc. was in place to ensure the protest could be done in a as safe a manner as possible.
And they just seem to have made a lot of angry people a whole lot more angry.
Who'd have thought eh?
F#ck'em....no leaders etc...
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Met police challenge Derbyshire police on 19:20 - Mar 13 by bluelagos
Watching the angry scenes in Clapham... (Live on the Independent)
Almost as if the Met have royally fcked up by not engaging and ensuring the stewarding etc. was in place to ensure the protest could be done in a as safe a manner as possible.
And they just seem to have made a lot of angry people a whole lot more angry.
Who'd have thought eh?
Young women being led away by male members of the biggest gang in town....Nice look!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Met police challenge Derbyshire police on 19:20 - Mar 13 by bluelagos
Watching the angry scenes in Clapham... (Live on the Independent)
Almost as if the Met have royally fcked up by not engaging and ensuring the stewarding etc. was in place to ensure the protest could be done in a as safe a manner as possible.
And they just seem to have made a lot of angry people a whole lot more angry.
Who'd have thought eh?
Does that mean they should ignore the rules though? Not much distancing going on in any of the videos or pictures.
This was always likely to happen, emotions are high and I don't think central London demonstrations are comparable to the ones you posted in Ipswich.
That doesn't mean that the Met shouldn't have engaged on stewardship but I guess this was always their fear.
SB
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Met police challenge Derbyshire police on 19:36 - Mar 13 with 424 views
Met police challenge Derbyshire police on 19:31 - Mar 13 by StokieBlue
Does that mean they should ignore the rules though? Not much distancing going on in any of the videos or pictures.
This was always likely to happen, emotions are high and I don't think central London demonstrations are comparable to the ones you posted in Ipswich.
That doesn't mean that the Met shouldn't have engaged on stewardship but I guess this was always their fear.
SB
That's the whole point Stokie. The vigil/protest would be a whole load more CV secure if the police has engaged instead of opting to go to court to stop a vigil.
They had 50 trained stewards ready, yet because it was called off, none of the RTS guys got involved.
Am for the record, I wouldn't dream of condemning a young woman showing her frustration at the vile murder of a young lady. You can either listen to them, or chose to condemn them.
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