| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid 18:11 - Apr 4 with 2886 views | wkj |
The movement behind it, is not.
Though the impression you give with 'Kill The Bill' can mean something VERY different from one person to the next.
https://news.sky.com/story/police-and-demonstrators-clash-at-kill-the-bill-prote
The longer these protests go the way they are, the more the protesters are going to make the Parliamentary Bill seem justified.
It is so sad a very important and valid grounds for protest going terribly wrong, in no small part due to the language being used. [Post edited 4 Apr 2021 18:12]
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 18:16 - Apr 4 with 1646 views | J2BLUE |
Yea the first time I heard it I assumed it meant something else. |  |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 18:37 - Apr 4 with 1580 views | BasingstokeBlue |
I’ve always thought it incredibly brave of our Boys in Blue to turn up to these “Assassinate All Police Officers” illegal gatherings. |  |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 18:50 - Apr 4 with 1561 views | tractordownsouth |
Same problem with "Defund The Police." If people don't immedietly know what you mean when they hear the slogan, then it's a bad slogan. |  |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 19:05 - Apr 4 with 1531 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
It is an excellent point that you make. We are the problem perhaps, as most of us folk who have genuine reasons to support something like this, just bang away on our keyboards and actually achieve nowt - now if we were to join the demonstration think of the difference it would make. There are loads of people on here with strong opinions - how many have actually tried to do something to change society -
I demonstrated once and only once.... |  | | |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 19:11 - Apr 4 with 1522 views | BelsteadCav |
Shame Boris didn’t get the Water Canon
Get the horses out and charge |  |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 19:18 - Apr 4 with 1509 views | EastTownBlue |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 19:11 - Apr 4 by BelsteadCav |
Shame Boris didn’t get the Water Canon
Get the horses out and charge |
Yes, Johnson spaffed £320,000 up the wall by purchasing water cannons that Theresa May banned the use of. Oh well, at least £11,025 was received for their scrap value. | | | |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 19:23 - Apr 4 with 1497 views | monytowbray |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 18:50 - Apr 4 by tractordownsouth |
Same problem with "Defund The Police." If people don't immedietly know what you mean when they hear the slogan, then it's a bad slogan. |
What would you suggest in place?
FWIW, I think it’s less about the slogan and more about fear of society that makes people object to initiatives to remove policing in areas where other workers and programs would be a better investment.
It literally means what it means. Meanwhile “Get Brexit Done” means very little but appeals to Little Britain mindfulness and/or racism. |  |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 19:32 - Apr 4 with 1489 views | BlueBadger |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 18:50 - Apr 4 by tractordownsouth |
Same problem with "Defund The Police." If people don't immedietly know what you mean when they hear the slogan, then it's a bad slogan. |
Let's face it the government have been defunding the police for the last ten years, it hasn't cleaned them up much. [Post edited 4 Apr 2021 21:42]
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 19:54 - Apr 4 with 1450 views | Blueschev |
Do you not think that’s deliberate? This disgusting piece of legislation was obviously going to lead to protests, which were then going to be misrepresented by our awful government friendly media, therefore increasing popular support from the public.
It’s all very disturbing. We were told that a vote for Corbyn would lead to Stalinism. |  | | |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 19:56 - Apr 4 with 1436 views | jeera |
Tarantino did all right out of it. |  |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:12 - Apr 4 with 1410 views | wkj |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 19:23 - Apr 4 by monytowbray |
What would you suggest in place?
FWIW, I think it’s less about the slogan and more about fear of society that makes people object to initiatives to remove policing in areas where other workers and programs would be a better investment.
It literally means what it means. Meanwhile “Get Brexit Done” means very little but appeals to Little Britain mindfulness and/or racism. |
The thing of it all, is for many - the slogan is where things stop. Think of most of Boris' campaign - slogan after slogan after slogan, with just enough ambiguity to wriggle off.
This is just the kind of hook we cast in a deeply tribal pond. The substance is rarely seen until someone stops, looks back and looks around.
The reasons behind the slogan are much more important, and there in lies my point - ambiguous slogans that can be manipulated will trash these movements if too many people mutate it to mean something else.
In no way do I denounce protest (in fact- I have attended a fair few in my life) and I take no exception to this one as it is certainly one of the most important of our lifetime. However, if people are gonna go along with "Kill Coppers" banners and get amped and primed when they see the coppers - the whole protest is going to become evidence for the government that the bill is justified - and will make it far less likely to be challenged by the opposition as they will be afraid their constituents will see them as advocating violence in the "Kill Cops..." (Photo) i mean...oppose an oppressing bill Protest (reality) [Post edited 4 Apr 2021 20:13]
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:15 - Apr 4 with 1405 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 19:54 - Apr 4 by Blueschev |
Do you not think that’s deliberate? This disgusting piece of legislation was obviously going to lead to protests, which were then going to be misrepresented by our awful government friendly media, therefore increasing popular support from the public.
It’s all very disturbing. We were told that a vote for Corbyn would lead to Stalinism. |
That is suggesting that the public apart from a few of you guys are stupid enough to belief this so called 'friendly media'.
It is as I said earlier an opportunity for folk to join these demonstrations and let authority know your feelings. Just ranting and being keyboard warriors achieves nothing. The media are right at the moment in that there are more at these demos hell bent on causing trouble then there are genuine opponents to the bill. Join the genuine ones and swell there numbers to show real frustration at this bill.
In 1990 I joined my one and only demo, because I was angry; we achieved our objective.
I get very concerned at those on here with strong opinions ( I do not agree with many of them) but actually that is all they do - air their opinions.
Demonstrate, join a political party, a trade union, become a volunteer, but do something and stop relying on others to change the world for you.
Oh dear I have gone on a bit; well at least it is off my chest.... | | | |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:18 - Apr 4 with 1399 views | monytowbray |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:12 - Apr 4 by wkj |
The thing of it all, is for many - the slogan is where things stop. Think of most of Boris' campaign - slogan after slogan after slogan, with just enough ambiguity to wriggle off.
This is just the kind of hook we cast in a deeply tribal pond. The substance is rarely seen until someone stops, looks back and looks around.
The reasons behind the slogan are much more important, and there in lies my point - ambiguous slogans that can be manipulated will trash these movements if too many people mutate it to mean something else.
In no way do I denounce protest (in fact- I have attended a fair few in my life) and I take no exception to this one as it is certainly one of the most important of our lifetime. However, if people are gonna go along with "Kill Coppers" banners and get amped and primed when they see the coppers - the whole protest is going to become evidence for the government that the bill is justified - and will make it far less likely to be challenged by the opposition as they will be afraid their constituents will see them as advocating violence in the "Kill Cops..." (Photo) i mean...oppose an oppressing bill Protest (reality) [Post edited 4 Apr 2021 20:13]
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It is an utter f**ker as you do always encounter protesters who don’t think about their actions representing the wider aims.
Then again a few weeks ago I shared links to police corruption and people got uppity with all sorts of assumed or made up narratives/intent.
Since updated that thread twice and our resident BUT THE GOOD COPS lot haven’t said much on the brutality displayed.
Much of it I think comes from the comfortable assumption justice always prevails and those with nothing to hide or those who don’t actively commit crimes won’t get wrapped up in such things. Which if history has shown us anything ain’t the case.
On a related note, I was floored by a copper waiting to get into the station when we played Scum a few years back because it kicked off 10 feet away to my right.
They are by and large, particularly in big groups, utter pr1cks. | |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:20 - Apr 4 with 1391 views | monytowbray |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:15 - Apr 4 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
That is suggesting that the public apart from a few of you guys are stupid enough to belief this so called 'friendly media'.
It is as I said earlier an opportunity for folk to join these demonstrations and let authority know your feelings. Just ranting and being keyboard warriors achieves nothing. The media are right at the moment in that there are more at these demos hell bent on causing trouble then there are genuine opponents to the bill. Join the genuine ones and swell there numbers to show real frustration at this bill.
In 1990 I joined my one and only demo, because I was angry; we achieved our objective.
I get very concerned at those on here with strong opinions ( I do not agree with many of them) but actually that is all they do - air their opinions.
Demonstrate, join a political party, a trade union, become a volunteer, but do something and stop relying on others to change the world for you.
Oh dear I have gone on a bit; well at least it is off my chest.... |
“The media are right at the moment in that there are more at these demos hell bent on causing trouble then there are genuine opponents to the bill. Join the genuine ones and swell there numbers to show real frustration at this bill.”
And what evidence do you have for this exactly?
My guess is zero, particularly when you go on to admit you’ve not been to any.
And, what alternative active protests and/or actions do you suggest one joins instead? [Post edited 4 Apr 2021 20:21]
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:21 - Apr 4 with 1381 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 19:05 - Apr 4 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
It is an excellent point that you make. We are the problem perhaps, as most of us folk who have genuine reasons to support something like this, just bang away on our keyboards and actually achieve nowt - now if we were to join the demonstration think of the difference it would make. There are loads of people on here with strong opinions - how many have actually tried to do something to change society -
I demonstrated once and only once.... |
Messenger newspaper group, miners' strike, Wapping, CND, anti-fascist, anti rave legislation.,, student grants....so total waste of time basically! [Post edited 4 Apr 2021 20:26]
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:22 - Apr 4 with 1376 views | wkj |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:15 - Apr 4 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
That is suggesting that the public apart from a few of you guys are stupid enough to belief this so called 'friendly media'.
It is as I said earlier an opportunity for folk to join these demonstrations and let authority know your feelings. Just ranting and being keyboard warriors achieves nothing. The media are right at the moment in that there are more at these demos hell bent on causing trouble then there are genuine opponents to the bill. Join the genuine ones and swell there numbers to show real frustration at this bill.
In 1990 I joined my one and only demo, because I was angry; we achieved our objective.
I get very concerned at those on here with strong opinions ( I do not agree with many of them) but actually that is all they do - air their opinions.
Demonstrate, join a political party, a trade union, become a volunteer, but do something and stop relying on others to change the world for you.
Oh dear I have gone on a bit; well at least it is off my chest.... |
In fairness, a few of us on here are members of Trade Unions and Political Parties (I am SNP).
I am left leaning for matters of civil liberty, I am right leaning in my economic opinions. However, on here I am labelled a Lefty, to the point I have made a joke out of it.
Discussion is important, such as this thread. Not only am I making my case and point, I am also hear to listen to others as well. Meanwhile, I have also sent Dr Dan Poulter a fair few letters in the last year, to the point I was offered a meeting (if not for Covid and being a little mentally off par with leaving my village)
The conversations must never stop, regardless of platform - the moment the conversations stop - there is little chance we will ever beat the poison of tribalism, and we will continue to have far left/right leaders to vote on. | |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:24 - Apr 4 with 1364 views | monytowbray |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:22 - Apr 4 by wkj |
In fairness, a few of us on here are members of Trade Unions and Political Parties (I am SNP).
I am left leaning for matters of civil liberty, I am right leaning in my economic opinions. However, on here I am labelled a Lefty, to the point I have made a joke out of it.
Discussion is important, such as this thread. Not only am I making my case and point, I am also hear to listen to others as well. Meanwhile, I have also sent Dr Dan Poulter a fair few letters in the last year, to the point I was offered a meeting (if not for Covid and being a little mentally off par with leaving my village)
The conversations must never stop, regardless of platform - the moment the conversations stop - there is little chance we will ever beat the poison of tribalism, and we will continue to have far left/right leaders to vote on. |
The answer to protests is always listening.
Shame our government seems more interested in fanning the flames. | |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:25 - Apr 4 with 1357 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:15 - Apr 4 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
That is suggesting that the public apart from a few of you guys are stupid enough to belief this so called 'friendly media'.
It is as I said earlier an opportunity for folk to join these demonstrations and let authority know your feelings. Just ranting and being keyboard warriors achieves nothing. The media are right at the moment in that there are more at these demos hell bent on causing trouble then there are genuine opponents to the bill. Join the genuine ones and swell there numbers to show real frustration at this bill.
In 1990 I joined my one and only demo, because I was angry; we achieved our objective.
I get very concerned at those on here with strong opinions ( I do not agree with many of them) but actually that is all they do - air their opinions.
Demonstrate, join a political party, a trade union, become a volunteer, but do something and stop relying on others to change the world for you.
Oh dear I have gone on a bit; well at least it is off my chest.... |
So, the poll tax riot....the clue is in the 3rd word maybe as to why it succeeded!!
I missed that one btw!! Kept getting nicked for being tall so thought better of it! | |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:26 - Apr 4 with 1355 views | itfcjoe |
Similar to "Defund the Police" in that regard |  |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:27 - Apr 4 with 1347 views | tractordownsouth |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 19:23 - Apr 4 by monytowbray |
What would you suggest in place?
FWIW, I think it’s less about the slogan and more about fear of society that makes people object to initiatives to remove policing in areas where other workers and programs would be a better investment.
It literally means what it means. Meanwhile “Get Brexit Done” means very little but appeals to Little Britain mindfulness and/or racism. |
Not sure? "Reform The Police" maybe? Obviously it would need a little explaining (which sort of contradicts my earlier post) but at least it doesn't instantly scare people away and if it were combined with a clever and articulate activist movement with clear aims, it could gain traction. On the other hand, "Defund The Police" gives the impression that the people saying it are advocating reduction in police numbers, which most people aren't. I know that's not what it actually means, but when I first heard it that's what I thought it meant.
I know you don't like the bloke who said it but as an example the "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" slogan was quite neat. It was obvious what it meant and brought people together - nobody could really disagree with being tough on criminals but also trying to put in place preventitive measures (better employment prospects, bringing people out of poverty) to reduce crime in the first place. The second half of the slogan isn't a million miles away from what the "Defund The Police" crowd seem to want - putting funds into different methods of crime reduction - but the difference is that it doesn't make people feel worried when they hear it. | |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:27 - Apr 4 with 1349 views | monytowbray |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:26 - Apr 4 by itfcjoe |
Similar to "Defund the Police" in that regard |
What part of DTP doesn’t make sense though? And what would you suggest in place?
It does exactly what it says on the tin. | |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:32 - Apr 4 with 1335 views | Blueschev |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:15 - Apr 4 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
That is suggesting that the public apart from a few of you guys are stupid enough to belief this so called 'friendly media'.
It is as I said earlier an opportunity for folk to join these demonstrations and let authority know your feelings. Just ranting and being keyboard warriors achieves nothing. The media are right at the moment in that there are more at these demos hell bent on causing trouble then there are genuine opponents to the bill. Join the genuine ones and swell there numbers to show real frustration at this bill.
In 1990 I joined my one and only demo, because I was angry; we achieved our objective.
I get very concerned at those on here with strong opinions ( I do not agree with many of them) but actually that is all they do - air their opinions.
Demonstrate, join a political party, a trade union, become a volunteer, but do something and stop relying on others to change the world for you.
Oh dear I have gone on a bit; well at least it is off my chest.... |
Are you referring to the poll tax demonstrations? If so they were far more violent than anything we have seen recently.
I’m not saying that most people are thick, most people just wish to get on with their lives and rely on the media to inform them of what is happening in the world. It’s my opinion that they are being grossly misinformed by a media dominated by those who are far too close to the levers of power, which is very unhealthy for a democratic society. I’m confused as to why holding this opinion makes me a keyboard worrier? | | | |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:32 - Apr 4 with 1333 views | monytowbray |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:27 - Apr 4 by tractordownsouth |
Not sure? "Reform The Police" maybe? Obviously it would need a little explaining (which sort of contradicts my earlier post) but at least it doesn't instantly scare people away and if it were combined with a clever and articulate activist movement with clear aims, it could gain traction. On the other hand, "Defund The Police" gives the impression that the people saying it are advocating reduction in police numbers, which most people aren't. I know that's not what it actually means, but when I first heard it that's what I thought it meant.
I know you don't like the bloke who said it but as an example the "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" slogan was quite neat. It was obvious what it meant and brought people together - nobody could really disagree with being tough on criminals but also trying to put in place preventitive measures (better employment prospects, bringing people out of poverty) to reduce crime in the first place. The second half of the slogan isn't a million miles away from what the "Defund The Police" crowd seem to want - putting funds into different methods of crime reduction - but the difference is that it doesn't make people feel worried when they hear it. |
It’s much easier with the second example though, as with populist and authoritarian nonsense designed for the right wing. Particularly if the media’s put the fear in you. Hell, the USA is still running an entire DOA on fake premises about drug usage, drug business dealings, drug addiction and a generally convenient way to fund the private prison system via locking PoC up.
I do agree “reform” makes more sense, but in an alternative reality where that happened I bet it’s still being attacked with the same nonsense narratives and p1ss poor arguments about Bad Apples. | |
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| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:35 - Apr 4 with 1320 views | factual_blue |
| Calling something 'Kill The Bill' is stupid on 20:27 - Apr 4 by monytowbray |
What part of DTP doesn’t make sense though? And what would you suggest in place?
It does exactly what it says on the tin. |
Well, 'defund' isn't really a word.... |  |
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