| Cummings interview 10:35 - Jul 21 with 3877 views | itfcjoe |
What were peoples thoughts on it.......
Thought it was interesting - Cummings just says what most think about Boris, that he is just out of his depth, and if wasn't being a PM would be writing for the Telegraph criticising all the things he has reluctantly done.
Cummings doesn't seem to see any problem with himself though - he hates the system, wants to replace it, is happy to replace it with people he thinks are smarter.....but doesn't see that all he wants is a different system in his image, as opposed to the current one.
Very strange to listen to, clearly highly intelligent, but doesn't seem to be able to see the wood through the trees sometimes |  |
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| Cummings interview on 13:43 - Jul 21 with 1366 views | BlueBadger |
| Cummings interview on 12:18 - Jul 21 by mrshallisfit |
Agree totally with this Joe. Starmer is credible but not very charismatic. But obviously for nearly 50% of the population lack of charisma is more of block to vote for someone than a lack of integrity, honesty and competence. Or is that there are other forces in play?Xenophobia and racism for example. |
Open racism is quite the pull for 52% of the electorate, I'd guess. |  |
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| Cummings interview on 14:36 - Jul 21 with 1319 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Cummings interview on 13:03 - Jul 21 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
I guess most folk are too busy working, looking after children/grandchildren, gardening, on holiday, watching tele, down the pub, getting ITFC tickets, knitting, sunbathing, visiting other folk, shopping, and generally getting on with their lives to give more than a passing glance to this non-story.
Certainly in these political correct days, we have once and for all learnt that the saying 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' is true of all sexes.
Anger hurts the vessel it is poured from a lot more than the vessel it is poured into. |
Benjamin the donkey speaks! |  |
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| Cummings interview on 14:42 - Jul 21 with 1313 views | BlueBadger |
| Cummings interview on 13:03 - Jul 21 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
I guess most folk are too busy working, looking after children/grandchildren, gardening, on holiday, watching tele, down the pub, getting ITFC tickets, knitting, sunbathing, visiting other folk, shopping, and generally getting on with their lives to give more than a passing glance to this non-story.
Certainly in these political correct days, we have once and for all learnt that the saying 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' is true of all sexes.
Anger hurts the vessel it is poured from a lot more than the vessel it is poured into. |
So, all that voting Tory and angrily blaming everyone else was just a cry for help? | |
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| Cummings interview on 15:26 - Jul 21 with 1276 views | tractordownsouth |
| Cummings interview on 12:59 - Jul 21 by itfcjoe |
I think a big problem here is that we've effectively gone to a 2 party system like in the US, but we have the Republican party in the Tories, but for the Democrats the vote is split between Labour, Lib Dem and Green.
As Labour seem to have become the metropolitan party, opposed to the party of working class areas - they seemingly have much more in common with LDs and Greens when you look at the key things at the moment as to where voters come from (i.e. highest education level awarded vs home ownership).
The recent by elections have effectively become Tories vs Lib Dem in Chesham and Amersham with Labour effectively stepping aside, and then vice versa happening in Batley and Spen (with Galloway just being a nuisance)
There needs to be some form of unofficial coalition between the parties with regards to tactical voting - similar to what Blair and Ashdown agreed - because sadly those on the left need to vote against the Tories rather than for the party that fits their beliefs best at times.....and that's before you get to Scotland |
I think the agreement made by Blair and Ashdown (not standing aside completely but one pulling resources in specific Tory seats to give the other a better shot) is the best way forward. Some Lib Dem voters would still prefer the Tories to Labour so having a paper candidate as an option is probably better for the centre-left as a whole. The remaining Liberal Democrat MPs seem more left-leaning than the likes of Clegg, Cable and Laws from a decade ago so would presumably be on board - even Ed Davey who served in the coalition has said he'd rather work with Labour these days.
Maybe Labour standing aside in no-hope constituencies for the Greens in exchange for them not running candidates in Labour-Tory margins is more viable as they don't seem to have any strongholds or target seats outside of Brighton. I'd leave the SNP out of any agreement though, wouldn't want them anywhere near government. |  |
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| Cummings interview on 15:36 - Jul 21 with 1257 views | Parsley |
| Cummings interview on 15:26 - Jul 21 by tractordownsouth |
I think the agreement made by Blair and Ashdown (not standing aside completely but one pulling resources in specific Tory seats to give the other a better shot) is the best way forward. Some Lib Dem voters would still prefer the Tories to Labour so having a paper candidate as an option is probably better for the centre-left as a whole. The remaining Liberal Democrat MPs seem more left-leaning than the likes of Clegg, Cable and Laws from a decade ago so would presumably be on board - even Ed Davey who served in the coalition has said he'd rather work with Labour these days.
Maybe Labour standing aside in no-hope constituencies for the Greens in exchange for them not running candidates in Labour-Tory margins is more viable as they don't seem to have any strongholds or target seats outside of Brighton. I'd leave the SNP out of any agreement though, wouldn't want them anywhere near government. |
Very difficult for anyone to beat the Conservatives without Scotland, although I agree as any arrangement with the SNP would involve another referendum |  | | |
| Cummings interview on 15:39 - Jul 21 with 1251 views | tractordownsouth |
| Cummings interview on 15:36 - Jul 21 by Parsley |
Very difficult for anyone to beat the Conservatives without Scotland, although I agree as any arrangement with the SNP would involve another referendum |
The SNP are 1st or 2nd in every Scottish constituency. The only thing that could work is if Labour and the Lib Dems target resources in areas where they are the incumbent or main challenger (which is about 25 seats) but that might scupper any alliance with the Greens as they basically go along with whatever the SNP say. So overall I think it's better to keep any alliance south of the border. | |
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| Cummings interview on 17:43 - Jul 21 with 1189 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
| Cummings interview on 14:36 - Jul 21 by Ewan_Oozami |
Benjamin the donkey speaks! |
And Jones the farmer replies |  | | |
| Cummings interview on 17:56 - Jul 21 with 1182 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
He is a psycho.. he and Johnson are exactly the same people.
Both don't really believe what they are doing is right, but do it for their own personal gain.
But in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. Johnson can do whatever he wants and people will still vote him in. |  |
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| Cummings interview on 18:01 - Jul 21 with 1170 views | vapour_trail |
| Cummings interview on 17:56 - Jul 21 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
He is a psycho.. he and Johnson are exactly the same people.
Both don't really believe what they are doing is right, but do it for their own personal gain.
But in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. Johnson can do whatever he wants and people will still vote him in. |
They’re both cnts, clearly. They’re not the same though.
People will follow Johnson.
Cummings are ten a penny. Johnson just needs to find another Cummings to make him do the things that will keep him where he is. Cummings could never get there without a Johnson. |  |
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| Cummings interview on 19:34 - Jul 21 with 1118 views | Darth_Koont |
| Cummings interview on 15:39 - Jul 21 by tractordownsouth |
The SNP are 1st or 2nd in every Scottish constituency. The only thing that could work is if Labour and the Lib Dems target resources in areas where they are the incumbent or main challenger (which is about 25 seats) but that might scupper any alliance with the Greens as they basically go along with whatever the SNP say. So overall I think it's better to keep any alliance south of the border. |
You’re right to forget Scotland. The only way Labour will get back in Scotland is by Scottish Labour embracing a referendum.
As the branch office of a monolithically unionist and long discredited national party they’re pretty much pointless. At least in Wales they can put clear water between themselves and party HQ by actually governing. |  |
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| Cummings interview on 20:01 - Jul 21 with 1095 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Cummings interview on 15:26 - Jul 21 by tractordownsouth |
I think the agreement made by Blair and Ashdown (not standing aside completely but one pulling resources in specific Tory seats to give the other a better shot) is the best way forward. Some Lib Dem voters would still prefer the Tories to Labour so having a paper candidate as an option is probably better for the centre-left as a whole. The remaining Liberal Democrat MPs seem more left-leaning than the likes of Clegg, Cable and Laws from a decade ago so would presumably be on board - even Ed Davey who served in the coalition has said he'd rather work with Labour these days.
Maybe Labour standing aside in no-hope constituencies for the Greens in exchange for them not running candidates in Labour-Tory margins is more viable as they don't seem to have any strongholds or target seats outside of Brighton. I'd leave the SNP out of any agreement though, wouldn't want them anywhere near government. |
"Some Lib Dem voters would still prefer the Tories to Labour"
This might have been the case under Cameron, but I can't really see it being true under the current anti-EU populist lot. I would imagine if anything, there are more Labour (northern pro-Brexit) voters who might vote for the Tories over the Lib Dems if no Labour candidate was on the ballot.
Personally I think it has to be a full blown alliance with no other candidates within the alliance on the ballot paper - the margins in many cases will be quite thin and a Labour/Lib Dem/Green paper candidate could swing it to the Tories.
Don't see the issue with having the SNP in a government. They've proved north of the border to be a progressive administration. Plus I don't think it will be possible to form an anti-Tory government without them. [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 20:02]
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| Cummings interview on 20:32 - Jul 21 with 1075 views | Darth_Koont |
| Cummings interview on 20:01 - Jul 21 by Clapham_Junction |
"Some Lib Dem voters would still prefer the Tories to Labour"
This might have been the case under Cameron, but I can't really see it being true under the current anti-EU populist lot. I would imagine if anything, there are more Labour (northern pro-Brexit) voters who might vote for the Tories over the Lib Dems if no Labour candidate was on the ballot.
Personally I think it has to be a full blown alliance with no other candidates within the alliance on the ballot paper - the margins in many cases will be quite thin and a Labour/Lib Dem/Green paper candidate could swing it to the Tories.
Don't see the issue with having the SNP in a government. They've proved north of the border to be a progressive administration. Plus I don't think it will be possible to form an anti-Tory government without them. [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 20:02]
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Well said.
More to the point, it’s not as if Labour have any choice. They’re looking shakier and shakier standing on their own “merits” electorally and need a big idea. A green progressive alliance is now their only route to power, I’d wager.
Of course, I think a lot of them are actually a lot more interested in being the left of the establishment and taking those personal rewards instead. | |
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| Cummings interview on 13:23 - Jul 22 with 993 views | tractordownsouth |
| Cummings interview on 19:34 - Jul 21 by Darth_Koont |
You’re right to forget Scotland. The only way Labour will get back in Scotland is by Scottish Labour embracing a referendum.
As the branch office of a monolithically unionist and long discredited national party they’re pretty much pointless. At least in Wales they can put clear water between themselves and party HQ by actually governing. |
Why would Scottish Labour embrace a referendum they don't want just to appease a nationalist party? Cameron did it and look how that turned out... | |
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| Cummings interview on 13:32 - Jul 22 with 982 views | Ewan_Oozami |
Farmer Pilkington, the fellow oppressor, if you don't mind... | |
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| Cummings interview on 13:32 - Jul 22 with 982 views | tractordownsouth |
| Cummings interview on 20:01 - Jul 21 by Clapham_Junction |
"Some Lib Dem voters would still prefer the Tories to Labour"
This might have been the case under Cameron, but I can't really see it being true under the current anti-EU populist lot. I would imagine if anything, there are more Labour (northern pro-Brexit) voters who might vote for the Tories over the Lib Dems if no Labour candidate was on the ballot.
Personally I think it has to be a full blown alliance with no other candidates within the alliance on the ballot paper - the margins in many cases will be quite thin and a Labour/Lib Dem/Green paper candidate could swing it to the Tories.
Don't see the issue with having the SNP in a government. They've proved north of the border to be a progressive administration. Plus I don't think it will be possible to form an anti-Tory government without them. [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 20:02]
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We'll agree to disagree over whether the SNP are progressive, but if Labour/Lib Dems get more than the Tories (which is unlikely in 1 electoral cycle) they could form a minority government and if the SNP are as progressive as they claim they won't vote down left/centre-left economic policies. If they would be willing to bring down such an alliance and help the Tories out of desperation to break up an economic and political union then they would show themselves to be no better than UKIP. They'd have very little leverage in any negotiations in that scenario.
Well aware we're going off topic from the original thread so here's my view on that: Johnson and Cummings are both lying charlatans who should never have been allowed anywhere near the levers of power. [Post edited 22 Jul 2021 13:33]
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| Cummings interview on 13:47 - Jul 22 with 953 views | WeWereZombies |
| Cummings interview on 13:03 - Jul 21 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
I guess most folk are too busy working, looking after children/grandchildren, gardening, on holiday, watching tele, down the pub, getting ITFC tickets, knitting, sunbathing, visiting other folk, shopping, and generally getting on with their lives to give more than a passing glance to this non-story.
Certainly in these political correct days, we have once and for all learnt that the saying 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' is true of all sexes.
Anger hurts the vessel it is poured from a lot more than the vessel it is poured into. |
The trick is to notice people like Cummings and Boris Johnson without getting angry about them, and then to do whatever you can to counter their influence over our lives.
And to ignore people who advocate doing nothing other than to alert others of the foolishness of such attitudes. |  |
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| Cummings interview on 14:22 - Jul 22 with 934 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
| Cummings interview on 13:47 - Jul 22 by WeWereZombies |
The trick is to notice people like Cummings and Boris Johnson without getting angry about them, and then to do whatever you can to counter their influence over our lives.
And to ignore people who advocate doing nothing other than to alert others of the foolishness of such attitudes. |
Yes I get that; the point I am trying to make is that most folk (the majority I guess) do not take as much interest in day to day politics as a lot of us might. They go about their daily business until such time as they need to cast their vote (of course only about 65%-70% of them even do that!). Unfortunately this will never change whatever protestations one may make.
A lot of social media (well it is certainly true of this site) spend so much of their time preaching to the converted - now I am not saying that is a bad thing, but it gives a reason why things are the way they are.
As most of us tend to mix with like minded people we can fall into the trap of believing that most others think (or should think) along the same lines as we do. | | | |
| Cummings interview on 15:42 - Jul 22 with 891 views | itfcjoe |
| Cummings interview on 15:26 - Jul 21 by tractordownsouth |
I think the agreement made by Blair and Ashdown (not standing aside completely but one pulling resources in specific Tory seats to give the other a better shot) is the best way forward. Some Lib Dem voters would still prefer the Tories to Labour so having a paper candidate as an option is probably better for the centre-left as a whole. The remaining Liberal Democrat MPs seem more left-leaning than the likes of Clegg, Cable and Laws from a decade ago so would presumably be on board - even Ed Davey who served in the coalition has said he'd rather work with Labour these days.
Maybe Labour standing aside in no-hope constituencies for the Greens in exchange for them not running candidates in Labour-Tory margins is more viable as they don't seem to have any strongholds or target seats outside of Brighton. I'd leave the SNP out of any agreement though, wouldn't want them anywhere near government. |
The position of the SNP and Labour in Scotland are just totally incompatible - now Labour have a decent leader North of the border they will make a few inroads | |
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| Cummings interview on 16:20 - Jul 22 with 852 views | Darth_Koont |
| Cummings interview on 13:23 - Jul 22 by tractordownsouth |
Why would Scottish Labour embrace a referendum they don't want just to appease a nationalist party? Cameron did it and look how that turned out... |
Support for independence is fairly high among Scottish Labour supporters and socialists/social democrats more generally.
I’m just suggesting how the Labour movement becomes more relevant not less. All depends if you see your politics as top-down or not, I suppose.
Or whether you are part of the problem or the solution. Personally, I think the sooner the current Labour lot implode the better. Millions of kids in poverty, increasing inequality and division, huge democratic deficit, climate crisis and a world that is changing while the UK slips backwards ... the last thing we need is an opposition party that will do nothing any time soon because it cares first and foremost about its own power, influence and money on the left side of the Establishment.
If nothing else it’s a remarkably weak and unattractive offering to people with a brain and a heart. | |
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| Cummings interview on 16:20 - Jul 22 with 850 views | Darth_Koont |
| Cummings interview on 15:42 - Jul 22 by itfcjoe |
The position of the SNP and Labour in Scotland are just totally incompatible - now Labour have a decent leader North of the border they will make a few inroads |
Not a cult. | |
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