| Rory Stewart spot on again 06:53 - Sep 1 with 6718 views | bluelagos |
And as an aside - this sums up perfectly for me an issue with so many people:- Twtdrs, social media, lining up a couple of months ago to be outraged and disgusted over a couple of bell ends taking an unwanted selfie with Chris Whitty...yet barely a wimper from the same posters / mob over an unfolding humanitarian crisis evolving right in front of us all.
I despair how so many people get themselves invested in irrelevant nonsense as opposed to things that actually matter... [Post edited 1 Sep 2021 6:54]
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 08:53 - Sep 2 with 754 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 07:44 - Sep 2 by Lord_Lucan |
No.
Of course you must have dialogue with your enemies.
But - for whatever reason, you have completely ignored what I said.
“ I might add, if I might be so bold. There is a massive difference between negotiating with your enemy and having hugs and cuddles with them”. |
No, that’s just your characterization. I’m trying to see the actual difference here in engaging with terrorists and their political wings that you see so clearly.
If you’re saying that Maggie as a combatant was dealing with the enemy combatants, Corbyn wasn’t dealing with them as combatants but as political representatives. He met Sinn Fein not the IRA per se. He met the PLO not Black September.
As I said, you seem to be making up stuff to suit. |  |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:03 - Sep 2 with 713 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 08:53 - Sep 2 by Darth_Koont |
No, that’s just your characterization. I’m trying to see the actual difference here in engaging with terrorists and their political wings that you see so clearly.
If you’re saying that Maggie as a combatant was dealing with the enemy combatants, Corbyn wasn’t dealing with them as combatants but as political representatives. He met Sinn Fein not the IRA per se. He met the PLO not Black September.
As I said, you seem to be making up stuff to suit. |
Didn’t meet the IRA? Ireland’s former Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said that, according to the evidence he has seen, Adams was not only an IRA member, but sat on its army council from 1977 onwards.
Corbyn was arrested while on a pro-IRA protest at the trial of the bomber who had killed five people and injured a further 31.
He wasn’t negotiating peace. He was an active supporter. |  |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:15 - Sep 2 with 720 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:03 - Sep 2 by GlasgowBlue |
Didn’t meet the IRA? Ireland’s former Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said that, according to the evidence he has seen, Adams was not only an IRA member, but sat on its army council from 1977 onwards.
Corbyn was arrested while on a pro-IRA protest at the trial of the bomber who had killed five people and injured a further 31.
He wasn’t negotiating peace. He was an active supporter. |
A supporter of the underlying cause, yes. And are you saying Adams wasn’t on the political side??!
You’re turning this into some black/white, clear distinction when even a cursory glance at the eventual peace process and the British/Republican lines of communication shows that’s not true or even realistic. Or how the Taliban have been viewed depending on who is doing the viewing and when. Or the Saudis. Or Israel. Or whoever.
You afford that nuance and benefit of the doubt to those you agree with and are then self-righteously enraged when people you don’t like are in a similar position. It’s deeply disingenuous stuff. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:18 - Sep 2 with 691 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:15 - Sep 2 by Darth_Koont |
A supporter of the underlying cause, yes. And are you saying Adams wasn’t on the political side??!
You’re turning this into some black/white, clear distinction when even a cursory glance at the eventual peace process and the British/Republican lines of communication shows that’s not true or even realistic. Or how the Taliban have been viewed depending on who is doing the viewing and when. Or the Saudis. Or Israel. Or whoever.
You afford that nuance and benefit of the doubt to those you agree with and are then self-righteously enraged when people you don’t like are in a similar position. It’s deeply disingenuous stuff. |
So on the one hand we have Mo Mowlam and Seamus Mallon. Two of the main players in the NI peace process calling Corbyn out as an IRA supporter. On the other hand we have Koonters.
I think we can safely leave this here. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:29 - Sep 2 with 682 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:18 - Sep 2 by GlasgowBlue |
So on the one hand we have Mo Mowlam and Seamus Mallon. Two of the main players in the NI peace process calling Corbyn out as an IRA supporter. On the other hand we have Koonters.
I think we can safely leave this here. |
As I said, deeply disingenuous.
You don’t just shift goalposts you construct them around wherever you’re pointing. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:29 - Sep 2 with 681 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:18 - Sep 2 by GlasgowBlue |
So on the one hand we have Mo Mowlam and Seamus Mallon. Two of the main players in the NI peace process calling Corbyn out as an IRA supporter. On the other hand we have Koonters.
I think we can safely leave this here. |
I’m not usually lost for words but…… |  |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:38 - Sep 2 with 649 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:29 - Sep 2 by Lord_Lucan |
I’m not usually lost for words but…… |
The Good Friday Agreement and the immediate release of the terrorists must have really flummoxed you.
No-one’s saying they agree with the methods, but there was a recognition of the validity of their position as combatants in a war.
Can you really not wrap your head around that? | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:51 - Sep 2 with 623 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:38 - Sep 2 by Darth_Koont |
The Good Friday Agreement and the immediate release of the terrorists must have really flummoxed you.
No-one’s saying they agree with the methods, but there was a recognition of the validity of their position as combatants in a war.
Can you really not wrap your head around that? |
The Good Friday agreement was bought about by dialogue which was ongoing since Thatcher and if peace means releasing terrorists - or freedom fighters - however you want to put it then so be it.
There is though a difference between negotiating with your enemy and supporting them. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:51 - Sep 2 with 609 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:29 - Sep 2 by Lord_Lucan |
I’m not usually lost for words but…… |
Koonters is like the last Japanese soldier found on a remote Indonesian island who thinks that the war is still on and wants to carry on fighting. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:55 - Sep 2 with 609 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:51 - Sep 2 by GlasgowBlue |
Koonters is like the last Japanese soldier found on a remote Indonesian island who thinks that the war is still on and wants to carry on fighting. |
Gmpf. Think you’ve got that the wrong way round.
Get with the programme, GB, and get on the right side of history for once. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:58 - Sep 2 with 601 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:51 - Sep 2 by Lord_Lucan |
The Good Friday agreement was bought about by dialogue which was ongoing since Thatcher and if peace means releasing terrorists - or freedom fighters - however you want to put it then so be it.
There is though a difference between negotiating with your enemy and supporting them. |
But again this thread is littered with examples where it seemingly depends on who is doing the supporting. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 10:15 - Sep 2 with 580 views | brazil1982 |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 08:53 - Sep 2 by Darth_Koont |
No, that’s just your characterization. I’m trying to see the actual difference here in engaging with terrorists and their political wings that you see so clearly.
If you’re saying that Maggie as a combatant was dealing with the enemy combatants, Corbyn wasn’t dealing with them as combatants but as political representatives. He met Sinn Fein not the IRA per se. He met the PLO not Black September.
As I said, you seem to be making up stuff to suit. |
Please don't start again with the peace-warrior of N Ireland, Corbyn. He supported the IRA. He supports Hamas. He made no contribution whatsoever to peace talks in NI. |  | | |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 10:18 - Sep 2 with 573 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 10:15 - Sep 2 by brazil1982 |
Please don't start again with the peace-warrior of N Ireland, Corbyn. He supported the IRA. He supports Hamas. He made no contribution whatsoever to peace talks in NI. |
Did I say he did?
He supports the oppressed whoever their de facto representatives are, Sinn Fein/IRA or Hamas. I’m with him 100% on that score and I’ve got little but disdain for those who are so happy siding with the oppressors. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 10:25 - Sep 2 with 542 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 10:18 - Sep 2 by Darth_Koont |
Did I say he did?
He supports the oppressed whoever their de facto representatives are, Sinn Fein/IRA or Hamas. I’m with him 100% on that score and I’ve got little but disdain for those who are so happy siding with the oppressors. |
translation: you'll turn a blind eye to stuff whenever it's politically convenient to do so. a principle your posts have always followed and a very fine demonstration of the moral bankruptcy of the hard left. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 10:29 - Sep 2 with 534 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 10:25 - Sep 2 by lowhouseblue |
translation: you'll turn a blind eye to stuff whenever it's politically convenient to do so. a principle your posts have always followed and a very fine demonstration of the moral bankruptcy of the hard left. |
Yes. That’s exactly what I said. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 10:35 - Sep 2 with 507 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 10:18 - Sep 2 by Darth_Koont |
Did I say he did?
He supports the oppressed whoever their de facto representatives are, Sinn Fein/IRA or Hamas. I’m with him 100% on that score and I’ve got little but disdain for those who are so happy siding with the oppressors. |
I don't recall him supporting the 58,000 oppressed Muslims in Bosnia and over 11,000 in Kosovo.
Where was his support for the oppressed homosexuals, journalists and human rights protesters in Iran when he was taking the government's rial to be a useful idiot on their propaganda channel? | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 11:28 - Sep 2 with 483 views | noggin |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 10:25 - Sep 2 by lowhouseblue |
translation: you'll turn a blind eye to stuff whenever it's politically convenient to do so. a principle your posts have always followed and a very fine demonstration of the moral bankruptcy of the hard left. |
Hard left?  |  |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 11:32 - Sep 2 with 479 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 10:35 - Sep 2 by GlasgowBlue |
I don't recall him supporting the 58,000 oppressed Muslims in Bosnia and over 11,000 in Kosovo.
Where was his support for the oppressed homosexuals, journalists and human rights protesters in Iran when he was taking the government's rial to be a useful idiot on their propaganda channel? |
You know that more than works both ways.
You really do love being righteous about what your opponents are supporting by association but never seem to address that for your own political positions.
It’s one thing to apply principles to every case irrespective of the details. It’s something entirely more shady and dishonest to turn your “principles” on and off depending on who or what you want to attack. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 11:34 - Sep 2 with 471 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 16:45 - Sep 1 by noggin |
Remember when Corbyn got dogs abuse for talking with terrorists?
Guess what we're gonna have to do to help those still stuck in Afghanistan? |
Look what you've gone and done 
Anyway, I thought Gav had added the 'C' word to the swear filter. |  |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 11:52 - Sep 2 with 442 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 11:28 - Sep 2 by noggin |
Hard left? |
attacks the labour party from the left [tick]
sees the world in terms of tedious adolescent certainties [tick]
excuses extremists, bigots and terrorists [tick] | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 12:03 - Sep 2 with 429 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 11:52 - Sep 2 by lowhouseblue |
attacks the labour party from the left [tick]
sees the world in terms of tedious adolescent certainties [tick]
excuses extremists, bigots and terrorists [tick] |
I’m attacking the centre-right Labour Party from pretty much a Nordic social democrat perspective, you silly man. You really need to get out more, Lowers, if you think my views are hard left.
And I try to call out real problems and talks about real solutions. Sure, they’re opinions but based on evidence. And I’ll change according to the evidence.
Whereas you’ve just got the reflective inside of a shiny party political bubble. One you’ve stayed in ever since 1997. You don’t get reality or certainly the need for politics to address it. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 12:08 - Sep 2 with 409 views | noggin |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 11:52 - Sep 2 by lowhouseblue |
attacks the labour party from the left [tick]
sees the world in terms of tedious adolescent certainties [tick]
excuses extremists, bigots and terrorists [tick] |
You nutter. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 12:14 - Sep 2 with 394 views | noggin |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 11:34 - Sep 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Look what you've gone and done
Anyway, I thought Gav had added the 'C' word to the swear filter. |
Always guaranteed to get the same few 'patriots' to crawl out from under their stones. | |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 12:31 - Sep 2 with 368 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 12:03 - Sep 2 by Darth_Koont |
I’m attacking the centre-right Labour Party from pretty much a Nordic social democrat perspective, you silly man. You really need to get out more, Lowers, if you think my views are hard left.
And I try to call out real problems and talks about real solutions. Sure, they’re opinions but based on evidence. And I’ll change according to the evidence.
Whereas you’ve just got the reflective inside of a shiny party political bubble. One you’ve stayed in ever since 1997. You don’t get reality or certainly the need for politics to address it. |
"Sure, they’re opinions but based on evidence. And I’ll change according to the evidence."
jeez, that's such a dull and blunt line. you clearly think that evidence exists separately from interpretation and that it comes with certainty of meaning. any shyster can cloak themselves in 'evidence' selected to fit their purpose. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Rory Stewart spot on again on 13:00 - Sep 2 with 339 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Rory Stewart spot on again on 09:58 - Sep 2 by Darth_Koont |
But again this thread is littered with examples where it seemingly depends on who is doing the supporting. |
I haven't read the thread. Believe it or not I am a very busy man.
I saw one post and replied to it. | |
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